The Triune God.

[Andrew]

I wouldn't put too much emphasis upon diagrams like that one. Yes, we often see them and they're an attempt to show something, but everyone knows that you cannot explain the nature of God with something like that.

You have validated my point, you cant explain the complete mystery of God all together, stop acting like you know everything especially what God is completely made of, God is everything that is good, man fell and brought evil into humanity, God saw over and over that his creation was good until man disobeyed him, God is love and love is good everything evil is of the devil and the devil is bad.
This whole man made creed is nothing more than a stumbling block for the children of Israel.

 

[Albion]

Well, you're partly right. We all agree that there is but one God, don't we?

 

[Albion]

You have validated my point, you cant explain the complete mystery of God all together, stop acting like you know everything especially what goes it completely made of, God is everything that is good, man fell and brought evil into humanity, God saw over and over that his creation was good until man disobeyed him, God is love and love is good everything evil is of the devil and the devil is bad.
This whole man made creed is nothing more than a stumbling block for the children of Israel.

See? It's as I said before.
When a very difficult or intricate subject like this one comes up, you instantly turn to insults if anyone says that we have to take it slow and be careful if we want to make any progress coming to any sort of agreement. And especially if the clap trap you've just read online somewhere isn't considered by the rest of us to be the Gospel itself. I wonder what you would have said if I instead had said that that diagram answers every question about God that we could possible raise? Same reply, I am guessing.

And BTW, what makes you, a young man who knows one congregation and has been with it for only a few months or weeks, from what I can tell, and with no particular past education in these things become the expert YOU think YOURSELF to be??

 

[Imalive]

http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/trinity.html
I posted this in the other thread but although I watch your video and website sources I see this as purposely skipped over.

Huh?
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/trinity.html#_1_13 says Jesus is not God.
And it says the Holy Spirit is not a Person but a force.
Don't grieve the Holy Spirit. You can't grieve a force.
Any sin will be forgiven except the sin against the Holy Spirit.
With Abraham in Genesis 19: 24 there's one YHWH on earth and one YHWH in heaven.
Noone can see God and live, yet Abraham spoke to YHWH there. He also walked in the garden w Adam and Eve. An omnipresent God can't walk in a garden. That was Jesus.

 

[Josiah]

This is what makes it so confusing:

View attachment 932

Now we have 4, a Trinity, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Just put the 3 circles over each other, because Jesus is in the Father, the Father is in Jesus, the Holy Spirit is in Jesus and you get just one circle, w 3 lines over each other and you understand why others just see one.

The Father is not the Son, etc.

There is no Trinity apart from Father - Son - Spirit, no fourth person or fourth reality; the TRI (3) unity embraces 3 realities that are one.

I think the graphic you used is pretty good. But obviously, there is mystery here: no human theory, philosophy, illustration or concept of physics is going to "understand" or explain this reality. Which is why it's called the MYSTERY of the Trinity.

 

[Albion]

That's an excellent point. The Trinity is a mystery. I had said essentially this same thing in previous posts when I said that God cannot really be comprehended by us humans.

BUT that doesn't mean that, by following God's own revelation to us in the Bible, we cannot know what he wants us to know about himself and what we can handle.

So it's mysterious, but that doesn't mean that what he has revealed to us can't be known to the exclusion of all other theories and guesses, whether it be Unitarianism, or a version of Gnosticism, or something else that men have speculated about.

 

[Imalive]

Hm that link was weird, but the UPCI doesn't say Jesus is not God.

https://www.thoughtco.com/practices-of-the-upci-700119

Jesus Christ - Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man, the manifestation of the one God in the New Testament.

 

[Albion]

Hm that link was weird, but the UPCI doesn't say Jesus is not God.

https://www.thoughtco.com/practices-of-the-upci-700119

Did someone here say that the UPCI does say that Jesus is not God?

As I recall, all the cautions that have been posted about the UPCI so far have been accurate.

 

[Andrew]

Hm that link was weird, but the UPCI doesn't say Jesus is not God.

https://www.thoughtco.com/practices-of-the-upci-700119

Jesus Christ - Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man, the manifestation of the one God in the New Testament.

Yes I read that too. He and his Father are one, this whole trinity concept doesnt matter to me anymore. I still have the same belief as I did when I was a kid and I still praise God and thank my Lord for his blessings. I dont need all these numbers in the way, Christ taught with simplicity and parables, the same question they asked about rebirth is somewhat a parable for me on asking him about the Trinity, he would probably say "I and the Father are one" lol

 

[Albion]

I often say that my political allies and I--or my lifelong friends and I--are one. I never mean that we are the same being.

Sometimes I word it differently and say that we are one in purpose or are "of one mind about this or that," but I am certain that no one thinks I mean that we all share the same brain stem.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes I read that too. He and his Father are one, this whole trinity concept doesnt matter to me anymore. I still have the same belief as I did when I was a kid and I still praise God and thank my Lord for his blessings. I dont need all these numbers in the way, Christ taught with simplicity and parables, the same question they asked about rebirth is somewhat a parable for me on asking him about the Trinity, he would probably say "I and the Father are one" lol

Faith is for adults too, people who have grown up. They do not believe as they did when a child. They do not think as a child or speak as a child. So longing for childhood certainties and simplicity is not what the faithful are called to. And while it is true that Jesus commended the trusting faith of children as an example for all he also commended the adult confession of faith that saint Peter gave and the apostle Paul urged the Christians in Corinth to be men in their understanding - be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

 

[Imalive]

Did someone here say that the UPCI does say that Jesus is not God?

As I recall, all the cautions that have been posted about the UPCI so far have been accurate.

No but that was in that other link.

 

[Imalive]

Yes I read that too. He and his Father are one, this whole trinity concept doesnt matter to me anymore. I still have the same belief as I did when I was a kid and I still praise God and thank my Lord for his blessings. I dont need all these numbers in the way, Christ taught with simplicity and parables, the same question they asked about rebirth is somewhat a parable for me on asking him about the Trinity, he would probably say "I and the Father are one" lol

He reveals it to little children.

 

[Andrew]

Huh?
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/trinity.html#_1_13 says Jesus is not God.
And it says the Holy Spirit is not a Person but a force.
Don't grieve the Holy Spirit. You can't grieve a force.
Any sin will be forgiven except the sin against the Holy Spirit.
With Abraham in Genesis 19: 24 there's one YHWH on earth and one YHWH in heaven.
Noone can see God and live, yet Abraham spoke to YHWH there. He also walked in the garden w Adam and Eve. An omnipresent God can't walk in a garden. That was Jesus.

No I wasnt referring to you, however this link obviously has flaws when trying to explain God without calling it a duo or a trinity. Albion, Coffee God is a mystery not the trinity if the trinity is explaining God, then its God that is the mystery.

 

[Albion]

No but that was in that other link.

Which link was that?

 

[Albion]

Albion, Coffee God is a mystery not the trinity if the trinity is explaining God, then its God that is the mystery.

Sure. The NATURE of God is what you're talking about, and the Trinity describes that nature.

And, by the way, it takes just as much dexterity to describe God as you and Imalive have attempted to do as it is to describe him in the Trinitarian way.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Coffee my understanding growing up was quite simple, simple enough for a kid. I believed in God, thats it and that is still what I believe. God sent his only begotten Son Jesus Christ hallelujah I believe.
However as I grew older I started learning these creeds and the trinity stumped me.

Jesus commended the trusting belief of children as an example that all should follow but Jesus also commended the adult confession of faith given by saint Peter (Matthew 16:16-19). And saint Paul urged the Corinthian Christians to be adults in their understanding (1 Corinthians 14:20). The faithful are called to grow in their understanding beyond the confines of childhood simplicity. Saint Paul remarked that When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. It's time for that to be done.

Jesus is the body of the Godhead he is the word in the flesh and by the will of his Father, it was Gods best way to heal to teach and to minister as man to man instead of magic tricks, I thank God that he sent his son to experience what its like to be man during the time of great persecution and to be able to speak the will of God knowing he having the same flesh we have, would be persecuted by the people he came to save and die and be resurrected by GOD and ascend back into Heaven. We are to follow his example in obedience and grace to become Sons of God.

I DONT care about anything outside the Bible, I dont care about the creeds or doctrines outside the Bible. I dont need a creed I have testimony. Our church teaches straight out the Bible we dont have to recite a creed.
As for any Protestant accepting the Trinity Creed they better convert to Catholicism or they will be damned Eternally!

Ask your church if the Father is Jesus and ask how the Father sent his own Son if the Father is the Son and ask how the Son died if he is the Father who never changes as saint James says Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. It cannot be denied that Jesus changed; he grew up from infancy to adulthood and he suffered and died. The Father was not made flesh and did not suffer and did not die. If there is only one God - a fact with which I fully agree - and if the Father is God tell me how the Son can be God and not be the Father. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word is God says the scripture and he was with God so whatever stumped you when you read the creeds about the Trinity will stump you still if you follow your teachers in asserting that Jesus is the Father and that therefore The Word was with himself and no one else.

There is no solution to what stumps a human mind in asserting what is not true. The Father is God and the Son is God but the Father is not the Son. John 1:18 No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like.

 

[Imalive]

Jesus commended the trusting belief of children as an example that all should follow but Jesus also commended the adult confession of faith given by saint Peter (Matthew 16:16-19). And saint Paul urged the Corinthian Christians to be adults in their understanding (1 Corinthians 14:20). The faithful are called to grow in their understanding beyond the confines of childhood simplicity. Saint Paul remarked that When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. It's time for that to be done.


Ask your church if the Father is Jesus and ask how the Father sent his own Son if the Father is the Son and ask how the Son died if he is the Father who never changes as saint James says Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. It cannot be denied that Jesus changed; he grew up from infancy to adulthood and he suffered and died. The Father was not made flesh and did not suffer and did not die. If there is only one God - a fact with which I fully agree - and if the Father is God tell me how the Son can be God and not be the Father. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

adults in understanding...
noone understands the doctrin of the Trinity. They say it's a mystery and just believe it.
Better just read the Bible texts on the subject and believe those.

 

[Andrew]

Jesus commended the trusting belief of children as an example that all should follow but Jesus also commended the adult confession of faith given by saint Peter (Matthew 16:16-19). And saint Paul urged the Corinthian Christians to be adults in their understanding (1 Corinthians 14:20). The faithful are called to grow in their understanding beyond the confines of childhood simplicity. Saint Paul remarked that When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. It's time for that to be done.


Ask your church if the Father is Jesus and ask how the Father sent his own Son if the Father is the Son and ask how the Son died if he is the Father who never changes as saint James says Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. It cannot be denied that Jesus changed; he grew up from infancy to adulthood and he suffered and died. The Father was not made flesh and did not suffer and did not die. If there is only one God - a fact with which I fully agree - and if the Father is God tell me how the Son can be God and not be the Father. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

There is no difference between a Pope or murderer or any man for that matter, we all fall short of the glory of God and are called to repent. I've seen some quotes from the Pope that is direct heresy but I cant condemn them just as much as they can condemn me, they have no right for man is in error and anything man made will have mad man error in it.
For the sake of when I go into a Catholic church I will make the sign of the cross and pray In the name of the Father Son and Holy spirit because its not "names" its a singular "name". I just dont follow the man made creeds because it states that any person out side the Catholic church is condemned to Eternal hell, that is scare tactics and not the word of God.
Can I agree that trinity is unity? Of course, but when I say that its heresy why? They are one. Would you say that for my sake of peace of mind that I should accept the trinity? Because I will adopt it but outside the creed, is a protestant who accept the trinity an imposter because he is not a Catholic? Answer me that and I will reconsider the trinity as mans "description" of how we could explain God.
I will still call on God singular when I praise but I wont argue with trinitarians about that, is that fair?
In other words when someone asks me "do you believe in the trinity?" I can say "I believe whether Trinity or Singular they are God"
Although I would rather say yay yay or nah nah...

 

[MoreCoffee]

adults in understanding...
noone understands the doctrin of the Trinity. They say it's a mystery and just believe it.
Better just read the Bible texts on the subject and believe those.

We understand the doctrine. That is not so difficult. Most adults are capable of that. What is difficult is believing it when no human experience gives a parallel by which the doctrine's truth can be grasped. It is like the incarnation insofar as believing that God became a man and died is easy to state but very hard to believe because God cannot die and a man cannot be God yet Jesus is God and he did die. Similarly the doctrine of the real presence is easy to state and easy to understand but it is damnably hard to believe because it is not ordinarily possible for flesh and blood to be exactly the same in every particular as bread and wine yet the holy scriptures tell us that the bread is the body of Christ and the wine is his blood of the new covenant. The mystery is not in the doctrine it is in the reality that the doctrine describes. The Eucharist is the mystery of the faith that the faithful profess (mystery being the Greek word that we translate as sacrament) but no one really understands how the bread is the body of Christ but the faithful believe it and no one really understands how the wine is Christ's blood of the new covenant but the faithful believe it. And those who "just read the bible" would do well to ask advice and help from every reliable source they can reach because the bible is no easy book to understand - it is a mystery of sorts itself because how can a book written by men and filled with human concepts and even with human limitations be the produced by the breath of God (God's Spirit)? Nevertheless the faithful believe that the holy scriptures are sacred and canonical because written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author and have been handed on as such to the Church herself.