The origin of the St. John's Day Festival (or Midsummer Day).

sunshinemama91

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We have to think that one through, as its so vast, what comes to mind is 'missing the forest for the trees'....

"Historical evidence suggests that Jesus, the person, was born in the springtime — but that Christian missionaries adopted Yule celebrations in order to appease and convert pagans who were deeply, spiritually attached to their own holidays. Early Christians were also fascinated by the rural, rustic pagan traditions.

“Christians of that period are quite interested in paganism,” says Philip Shaw, a researcher of early Germanic languages and Old English at Leicester University. “It’s obviously something they think is a bad thing, but it’s also something they think is worth remembering. It’s what their ancestors did.”

The two most notable pagan winter holidays were Germanic Yule and Roman Saturnalia. Christian missionaries gave these holidays a makeover and they are now known to us as Christmas."https://wearyourvoicemag.com/culture/christmas-pagan-roots-winter-holiday

The 25th of December, which we celebrate as Christmas, was the commemorative day of the birth of the sun god.
"Dies Natalis Solis Invicti means 'birthday of the unconquered sun' and was held on December 25th (when the Romans thought the Winter Solstice took place) and was the 'birthday' of the Pagan Sun god Mithra. In the pagan religion of Mithraism, the holy day was Sunday and is where get that word from!"...https://www.whychristmas.com/customs/25th.shtml

Now about the Christmas tree....
When Nimrod was destroyed, he was symbolized as the tree that was cut off. To this day, his rebirth is celebrated as the new branch (Christmas tree) that sprouts from the sawed-off stump through the life-giving power of the serpent. The ancient practice of celebrating the birth of the sun god through the fir tree is found in most ancient pagan religions.

In England, Christmas is celebrated by throwing the Yule log into the fire, representing the destruction of Nimrod. The Christmas tree was then decorated, symbolizing the rebirth of the sun god.

Santa Claus has virtually replaced Jesus Christ as the main feature of Christmas. Santa rides across the skies in his reindeer-drawn chariot. He is made acceptable by his friendly appearance, but he has the same characteristics as the ancient sun deities:

The birth of Osiris, the Egyptian sun god, coincided with the day of solstice, and on this day he would ride through the heavens in his chariot. The Greek sun god Helios would ride through the sky in his sun chariot drawn by horses as depicted in the great fountain of Versailles. In the Hindu culture, the Sûrya and his charioteer Aruna rides across the sky in a horse-drawn sun chariot. In other cultures, animals such as the goat (Zeus) or the reindeer pull the chariot.

"It cannot seriously be denied that most of the features of advanced Catholic1 ritual have little
or no direct warrant in the New Testament. It is frequently urged in support of such ritual that
it can be traced in unbroken sequence back to the fourth century. “No sooner did the primitive
Church emerge from the centuries of persecution, and acquire freedom from external
repression, than it gave full and wonderful expression to its devotional spirit in elaborate and
beautiful Symbolic ways.”2 Antiquity, however, is no guarantee of apostolic authority,
especially as there is a gap of nearly three centuries between apostolic days and the
introduction of the greater part of these ritual practices into the Church. Indeed, far from our
being able to find Scriptural authority for these practices, all the available evidence on their
provenance goes to show that they were taken over into the Church from the various Mystery
cults which were so popular throughout the Roman Empire in the early centuries o£ our era.
The appeal to the Fathers cannot take the place of an appeal to the Apostles. “....https://theologicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/babylon_bruce.pdf
See, this is the information I've had, just dumbed down variations in more of a story teller verbage lol. But there is also a deep conviction by the Holy Spirit to be extremely cautious about these celebrations, days, rituals etc, or forgo them altogether.

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Albion

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Every symbol possible has been used and abused by pagans but it doesn't mean that the symbol itself is pagan nor does it imply that using them means we are pagans.. a dove reminds me of grace and the Holy Spirit, an evergreen tree reminds me of everlasting life, daily bread reminds me of life giving fuel, wine reminds me of the persecuted blood that is the NT Gospel... Halloween I admit does nothing for me, neither does easter egg hunts but as for Christmas I honestly see as a fruitful holiday where the majority of the west behaves a little more polite to each other even though I believe that in Christ the effect is year long :)
Jesus celebrated a winter holiday btw

This is beginning to remind me of the hub-bub about that hand signal where a person holds up his hand with the index finger and thumb touching each other, thus making a kind of "O," and the other fingers are just held out.

This recently was "identified" by a self-appointed political watchdog committee as a White Supremacist signal. It has long meant just "OK" for all sorts of people, not White Supremacists. And it means "made my 3-point shot!" among basketball players. And it is used at some colleges as a representation of the school's nickname/mascot. There probably are more.

So there are a jillion similarities abounding in life when it comes to actions, emblems, and the like. Each special interest group decides what everybody else means by them, even though the people being accused mean something altogether different. :D

And that's to say nothing about claims concerning the use of some artifact or action that ISN'T the one the accusers think it is, but they're been told by somebody else that it looks similar as though that means it has to be the same!





.
 
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Lamb

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This is beginning to remind me of the hub-bub about that hand signal where a person holds up his hand with the index finger and thumb touching each other, thus making a kind of "O," and the other fingers are just held out.

This recently was "identified" by a self-appointed political watchdog committee as a White Supremacist signal. It has long meant just "OK" for all sorts of people, not White Supremacists. And it means "made my 3-point shot!" among basketball players. And it is used at some colleges as a representation of the school's nickname/mascot. There probably are more.

So there are a jillion similarities abounding in life when it comes to actions, emblems, and the like. Each special interest group decides what everybody else means by them, even though the people being accused mean something altogether different. :D

And that's to say nothing about claims concerning the use of some artifact or action that ISN'T the one the accusers think it is, but they're been told by somebody else that it looks similar as though that means it has to be the same!





.

I thought of that same thing with the hand gesture! Different cultures are going to change things as years go by. Remember when gay meant happy? Then it meant homosexual and then it turned into a bad word that you can't call someone?
 

Andrew

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This is beginning to remind me of the hub-bub about that hand signal where a person holds up his hand with the index finger and thumb touching each other, thus making a kind of "O," and the other fingers are just held out.

This recently was "identified" by a self-appointed political watchdog committee as a White Supremacist signal. It has long meant just "OK" for all sorts of people, not White Supremacists. And it means "made my 3-point shot!" among basketball players. And it is used at some colleges as a representation of the school's nickname/mascot. There probably are more.

So there are a jillion similarities abounding in life when it comes to actions, emblems, and the like. Each special interest group decides what everybody else means by them, even though the people being accused mean something altogether different. :D

And that's to say nothing about claims concerning the use of some artifact or action that ISN'T the one the accusers think it is, but they're been told by somebody else that it looks similar as though that means it has to be the same!





.
Yep yep!
 

sunshinemama91

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This is beginning to remind me of the hub-bub about that hand signal where a person holds up his hand with the index finger and thumb touching each other, thus making a kind of "O," and the other fingers are just held out.

This recently was "identified" by a self-appointed political watchdog committee as a White Supremacist signal. It has long meant just "OK" for all sorts of people, not White Supremacists. And it means "made my 3-point shot!" among basketball players. And it is used at some colleges as a representation of the school's nickname/mascot. There probably are more.

So there are a jillion similarities abounding in life when it comes to actions, emblems, and the like. Each special interest group decides what everybody else means by them, even though the people being accused mean something altogether different. :D

And that's to say nothing about claims concerning the use of some artifact or action that ISN'T the one the accusers think it is, but they're been told by somebody else that it looks similar as though that means it has to be the same!





.
Don't forget it's also the 666 gang sign for the illuminati

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atpollard

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Well nowhere in the Bible is the solstice a time "to get together and have fun", its origin was not Christian, need to research it....

"You've probably heard of the Spring and Fall Equinoxes (times of equal-length day and night) and the Summer and Winter Solstices (longest and shortest day, respectively) before. In current usage these each define the official beginning of a season -- for example, summer ``begins'' around June 21st. However a less-used parallel system holds that June 21st is actually Midsummer's Day, which then requires the start of summer to be in early May. This date and three others like it are known as the Cross-Quarter Days, because they are evenly spaced between the fundamental Quarter Days of the Solstices and Equinoxes.....

All eight of the above-listed Days were observed as pagan holidays of one sort or another; a few, like Halloween, have survived to modern times in (somewhat) recognizable form. What is more interesting is the number of supposedly modern holidays which lie in close proximity to the same dates. Christmas (Winter Solstice) and Easter (Spring Equinox) are two obvious examples; one may make the argument that these holiday times were inherited. Others are quite surprising -- like Father's Day (Summer Solstice)! "
https://www.naic.edu/~gibson/cal/

"Almost all Pagans celebrate a cycle of eight festivals, which are spaced every six or seven weeks through the year and divide the wheel into eight segments....
The other four festivals are points in the solar calendar. These are, Spring Equinox, Autumn Equinox, Summer Solstice and Winter Solstice." https://druidnetwork.org/what-is-dr...l-festivals/celebrations-festivals-holy-days/

"The Solstices, Equinoxes, and mid-points between - - also known as the Cross Quarters - - have been celebrated by a variety of Nature peoples around the world and across the ages. Today, Wiccans and other Pagans often blend together ancient as well as contemporary approaches to celebrating these seasonal festivals."
https://www.circlesanctuary.org/index.php/celebrating-the-seasons/celebrating-the-seasons

"The Wheel of the Year is a representation of the eight pagan holidays or Wiccan Sabbats. These holidays honor and celebrate the seasons and cycles of life for those who practice paganism or Wicca."
https://exemplore.com/paganism/Wheel-of-the-Year-The-Eight-Pagan-Holidays

"The summer solstice arrives in the northern hemisphere on June 20, 2016, bringing with it the longest day in the year — which means lots of extra sunlight for festivities. The day is considered to be sacred by many pagans around the world who celebrate the solstice among their other yearly holidays....

The summer solstice is one of four solar holidays, along with the autumnal equinox, the winter solstice and the vernal equinox. The other major pagan holidays are Samhain, Imbolc, Beltane and Lughnasadh...

One of the biggest pagan celebrations occurs at Stonehenge in England, but others take place among indigenous Latin and South American communities, and in Russia, Spain and other countries....

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/how-...QM3GOw1GpUDUUMCy4Y9T8doX2V9xSlapEOgqw7CXRltMC

Etc..etc..etc...https://www.ancient-origins.net/hum...e-rituals-and-events-mark-sacred-cycle-007888
https://paganfed.org/index.php/paganism/pf-wheel-of-the-year
https://www.ancient.eu/Wheel_of_the_Year/


Its very clear its origin is not Christian much less scriptural...
Citing a website that cites other unverifiable facts from websites as it’s “original source” is not very scholarly. Do you have ANYTHING that has at least been peer reviewed in a trade journal or cites a primary source (like an actual pagan transcript or a historical manuscript like Josephus)?

This rates right up there with proof of Bigfoot or Aliens in Area 51.
 

atpollard

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"Historical evidence suggests that Jesus, the person, was born in the springtime ...
What historical evidence?
Having researched the issue, the Passover preparations and weather patterns in the vicinity of Bethlehem require the story of the shepherds and angelic heralding to have occurred in December or January.
Hint: When is the range of dates for Passover and what is the preparation of a Passover lamb from birth to the Passover meal? The answer will tell you why there were shepherds gathered on the hills outside Jerusalem watching flocks.
 

hobie

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Citing a website that cites other unverifiable facts from websites as it’s “original source” is not very scholarly. Do you have ANYTHING that has at least been peer reviewed in a trade journal or cites a primary source (like an actual pagan transcript or a historical manuscript like Josephus)?

This rates right up there with proof of Bigfoot or Aliens in Area 51.

And if I put one, would you believe it. I could put up all the facts in the world but as they say, a man convinced against his will....
 

Josiah

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atpollard

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And if I put one, would you believe it. I could put up all the facts in the world but as they say, a man convinced against his will....

If you put up one piece of actual evidence, then I would unequivocally believe that you actually had some evidence for your claims. As things stand, your claim is comparable to “my grandmother told me, that a leprechaun told her, a story comes straight from a unicorn that was actually there” ... it is completely lacking in credibility and impossible to verify.
 
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