The myth of free-will destroyed by scripture.

[Josiah]

God has always chosen according to His own will.

More 'shell game.' This thread isn't about predestination (single, double or not-at-all), it's about a dogma invented in the late 16th Century by a few latter-day hyper-Calvinists that "Jesus died for ONLY a few, EXCLUSIVELY the elect, JUST the church and no others."

You claim limited salvation

Another of your games. Not only change the subject but accuse any who don't agree with you on some other subject, a charge that is entirely unsubstantiated and OBVIOUSLY absurd, one that everyone here KNOWS (including you) is NOT my position. Your "logic" seems to be that if you FALSELY (and absurdly) accuse one of teaching wrongly on some other subject, you ERGO MUST be right about this one. Funny how hyper-Calvinists are always boasting of how logical they are....



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[MennoSota]

More 'shell game.' This thread isn't about predestination (single, double or not-at-all), it's about a dogma invented in the late 16th Century by a few latter-day hyper-Calvinists that "Jesus died for ONLY a few, EXCLUSIVELY the elect, JUST the church and no others."







Another of your games. Not only change the subject but accuse any who don't agree with you on some other subject, a charge that is entirely unsubstantiated and OBVIOUSLY absurd, one that everyone here KNOWS (including you) is NOT my position. Your "logic" seems to be that if you FALSELY (and absurdly) accuse one of teaching wrongly on some other subject, you ERGO MUST be right about this one. Funny how hyper-Calvinists are always boasting of how logical they are....



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You can't see how all are related and taught in scripture. It is you who play the shell game in an attempt to avoid your dilemma.

You claim universal atonement and limited salvation by God for those Jesus died to save..

I claim limited atonement and universal salvation by God for those whom Jesus died to save.

 

[Andrew]

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Romans 10:9-13

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"Confess and believe", are we confusing the "world" with "worldly believers"? Salvation is guaranteed to all believers in the world, Our Father in Heaven Wills that the whole world would believe but because of spiritual free will and the wiles of the devil, many will not call on the Lord Jesus and will remain dead in sin and we should pray as Christ prayed, that the Father Forgive and have Mercy on the World for they are foolish and 'know not what they do.'

 

[Andrew]

[MENTION=394]MennoSota[/MENTION]
I was watching this video and this guy explains TULIP for those wondering what Calvinist believe, found an interesting comment and just wondering if you find the statement true.
https://youtu.be/_RQhIr6tKyQ

The image is a respond comment to another comment that said something bitter towards the theology of Calvinism

 

[pinacled]

"If you love me, you will keep my commands.. "

[And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing."]

Just as ole sh'aul said.
Without a free will offering...


As with freewill offering for the tabernacle, so to is life in the body of the faithful servants to bring more than is needed.

Blessings Always

 

[Josiah]

Andrew... Others....

Don't let MennoSota fool you that to reject free-will in initial justification is THEREFORE to be Calvinist and to embrace TULIP. Most who reject this are neither Calvinists nor embrace TULIP. Hyper-Calvinists and hyper-Arminianists both like to pretend there are only two camps: Them and us. Actually, there were LOTS of Christians before the late 16th Century when these two schools were invented.... and LOTS of Chrsitians today who are neither. Indeed, I don't personally know a single Calvinist who accepts TULIP in the original way, so even most Calvinists don't buy all this.


The issue here is free will in initial justification. Don't confuse that with hyper-Calvinism or Arminianism. It should be debated directly.

 

[pinacled]

Andrew... Others....

Don't let MennoSota fool you that to reject free-will in initial justification is THEREFORE to be Calvinist and to embrace TULIP. Most who reject this are neither Calvinists nor embrace TULIP. Hyper-Calvinists and hyper-Arminianists both like to pretend there are only two camps: Them and us. Actually, there were LOTS of Christians before the late 16th Century when these two schools were invented.... and LOTS of Chrsitians today who are neither. Indeed, I don't personally know a single Calvinist who accepts TULIP in the original way, so even most Calvinists don't buy all this.


The issue here is free will in initial justification. Don't confuse that with hyper-Calvinism or Arminianism. It should be debated directly.

Matt13;12

There is no debating the Firstfruit.

 

[pinacled]

Matt13;12

There is no debating the Firstfruit.

Hebrews 1 New International Version (NIV)
His Son
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

The Son Superior to Angels
5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,

“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father”[a]?

Or again,

“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son”?

6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

“Let all God’s angels worship him.”

7 In speaking of the angels he says,

[B]“He makes his angels spirits,
and his servants flames of fire.”[d]

8 But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”


1 corinthians 1
Thanksgiving in a freewill{}fellowship offering of Fire
4 I always thank my God for you because of his grace given you in Christ Jesus. 5 For in him you have been enriched in every way—with all kinds of speech and with all knowledge— 6 God thus confirming our testimony about Christ among you. 7 Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed. 8 He will also keep you firm to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 God is faithful, who has called you into fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.


Blessings Always to those who minister the flame

 

[Andrew]

I was going to post this in another thread but I believe it will float better here.
This guy may come off as bonkers because he talks kind of fast but he makes a bunch of excellent points.
I came across this video a few days ago and it's only 10 minutes, the title is misleading because it's for the most part about free will.
https://youtu.be/JASX8g6sWkw

 

[MennoSota]

I was going to post this in another thread but I believe it will float better here.
This guy may come off as bonkers because he talks kind of fast but he makes a bunch of excellent points.
I came across this video a few days ago and it's only 10 minutes, the title is misleading because it's for the most part about free will.
https://youtu.be/JASX8g6sWkw

Do you realize that Greg Boyd is an open theists? He doesn't believe God is Sovereign. He doesn't believe God is all knowing. He believes that God is hamstring until humans make their own choices. His theology is espoused by liberals who deny the deity of Christ. He was kicked out of his church. John Piper mopped up Boyd in a debate they had at Bethel University where Boyd was kicked out of the theology department for his radical thinking.
Do you want him as your spokesman.

 

[pinacled]

I was going to post this in another thread but I believe it will float better here.
This guy may come off as bonkers because he talks kind of fast but he makes a bunch of excellent points.
I came across this video a few days ago and it's only 10 minutes, the title is misleading because it's for the most part about free will.
https://youtu.be/JASX8g6sWkw

I believe mennas has a point.
That wasn't a freewill(fellowship offering.

In fellowship it is important to remember to offer your personal experiences.
Like during the offering for the construction of the tabernacle
The people brought more than needed.
Just as it was then it is like wise the same when people brought an offering to the disciples.

After all, you were not given a spirit of fear were you?

Blessings Always.

 

[Andrew]

Do you realize that Greg Boyd is an open theists? He doesn't believe God is Sovereign. He doesn't believe God is all knowing. He believes that God is hamstring until humans make their own choices. His theology is espoused by liberals who deny the deity of Christ. He was kicked out of his church. John Piper mopped up Boyd in a debate they had at Bethel University where Boyd was kicked out of the theology department for his radical thinking.
Do you want him as your spokesman.

I did not know this but you too have also been accused of being radical Menno, we all seem radical to each other here but I suspect that the man is passionate and has read his Bible. How so is he an open theist? Does he believe in Allah and new age beliefs and so on, or is he mainly adherent to Christian beliefs?
How do you know about this man is he popular? I never heard of him before, just wondering.

 

[MennoSota]

I did not know this but you too have also been accused of being radical Menno, we all seem radical to each other here but I suspect that the man is passionate and has read his Bible. How so is he an open theist? Does he believe in Allah and new age beliefs and so on, or is he mainly adherent to Christian beliefs?
How do you know about this man is he popular? I never heard of him before, just wondering.

Boyd has certainly read the Bible and he is passionate. He passionately denies the Sovereignty of God in favor of the human sovereignty over God. For Boyd, God must wait and react to human choice. God doesn't know what the future is. Humans determine the future and God adjusts from there.
Boyd's postulation has lead to "Evolutionary Theology" which postulates that God is evolving as humans change the world.
Josiah accuses Reformed theology of being radical. Josiah is clueless and evasive. Like Luther, he cannot go past justification and therefore he cannot grasp atonement. Josiah's ignorance does not make Reformed theology radical. It makes Josiah ignorant.

 

[Josiah]

Josiah accuses Reformed theology of being radical

There's a reason most CALVINISTS refer TULIP (and especially the "L") as HYPER-Calvinism. I didn't invent that characterization, it comes from Calvinists. And I didn 't say that Reformed theology is radical (you DO have a constant propensity to indicate people stated something they never remotely did, which is why you don't quote people saying what you claimed they did). I said SOME, a FEW aspects of what SOME latter-day Calvinists invented is what Calvinists term it, "Hyper-Calvinism."


MUCH, the vast majority of what Reformed Christians say is sound, historic and biblical. Lutherans especially feel a strong kinship with the passionate, clear embrace of monergism in classical Calvinism. But that doesn't mean we embrace the new, unbiblical stuff invented by a very few latter-day Calvinists, things Calvinists themselves often reject and often call "hyper-Calvinism."

On THIS topic, Lutherans stand with Scripture and also with the Council of Orange and the Creed (.... we believe in the Holy Spirit, THE Lord and GIVER of life"). We do not hold that dead people give life to self but that God gives them life. We agree with Scripture that faith is the gift of God. There is much mystery here but ultimately, it is God's gift. Jesus is the Savior and thus Jesus does the saving. Kind of simply from our perspective.




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[pinacled]

Boyd has certainly read the Bible and he is passionate. He passionately denies the Sovereignty of God in favor of the human sovereignty over God. For Boyd, God must wait and react to human choice. God doesn't know what the future is. Humans determine the future and God adjusts from there.
Boyd's postulation has lead to "Evolutionary Theology" which postulates that God is evolving as humans change the world.
Josiah accuses Reformed theology of being radical. Josiah is clueless and evasive. Like Luther, he cannot go past justification and therefore he cannot grasp atonement. Josiah's ignorance does not make Reformed theology radical. It makes Josiah ignorant.

Seriously?
Are you and Josiah like one of those couples that play at bikkering to entertain yourselves.

Not only is It disrespectful to the forum and readers.
It is wrong to bring quarrels to a discussion.

You two need to behave, or you will find out what it means to receive discipline in the spirit.