The myth of free-will destroyed by scripture.

[Josiah]

You teach particular atonement, yet reject it at the same time. It is fascinating.

No, I reject that Jesus died for ONLY, EXCLUSIVELY JUST for the elect, the church, the few.... I accept the concept of Election and that faith is a divine gift of God. I am a monergist because it's what Scripture says and it's the Protestant view of Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide affirmed by Luther and Calvin (and the Council of Orange). I reject that Jesus only died for an unnamed minority of people for the same reason probably 99% of Monergists do: It's not taught anywhere in Scripture (as you've proven) or anywhere prior to a FEW latter-day hyper-Calvinists, it's contrary to a great many Scriptures, and because it makes faith largely irrelevant since there's no way to know if faith is embracing something for YOU (since it's not for most and thus probably not for you). Faith has no significance if it's embracing pure nothingness for THEM. I'd rather stick with clear Scripture and 2000 years of Christians (as well as virtually all Calvinist known to me) .... rather than a FEW (almost entirely repudiated) latter-day hyper-Calvinists who rejected Christ's work only because Arminianists accepted it (along with all other Christians up to that time).

 

[MennoSota]

So lets say I am playing some stupid Nintendo game and I choose to either hit A or not... we are not talking about that correct? Terrible analogy I know but for sake of conversation you are defining 'will' as either good or evil, since we are all slaves to sin we have no free 'will', we are doomed from birth to be slaves to sin but God chooses our 'will' for us?

Adam's breaking of the covenant with God put us in slavery to sin and hell.
God chooses whom He will redeem from the curse. (Matthew 25)
All these silly, daily actions we partake in do not make us free. It merely means we make decisions within the compound of our enslaved world of sin. Either God breaks us out and places us in His Kingdom or He doesn't.
God is not somehow evil if He does not free us from the curse we established in Adam when we broke covenant with God. We broke covenant with God. God did not break his end of the covenant. It is an extraordinary act of love when God chooses to reconcile that covenant through Jesus.

 

[Andrew]

All these silly, daily actions we partake in do not make us free. It merely means we make decisions within the compound of our enslaved world of sin. Either God breaks us out and places us in His Kingdom or He doesn't.

Amen

 

[MoreCoffee]

Do you have my "religions" catechism to show my "traditions?"

No, it is best to avoid reading such things.

 

[MennoSota]

Josiah wrote:
No, I reject that Jesus died for ONLY, EXCLUSIVELY JUST for the elect, the church, the few.... I accept the concept of Election and that faith is a divine gift of God.

Here is your problem. You cannot have election and God's gifting of faith without particular redemption. By rejecting the latter, you deny the first two.
You are trying to live with two diametrically opposed views and imagine they are reconciled. It's like you are attempting to force two positively charged magnets together and if hold them together long enough you think they will stick. But, like the magnets...let them go and they oppose each other.
You cannot make your argument work, Josiah. You must accept particular atonement if you accept election and God gifting people faith.

 

[MennoSota]

No, it is best to avoid reading such things.

You cannot avoid what doesn't exist. What exists is scripture...and that...you can avoid if you desire

 

[pinacled]

Notice that God grants or does not grant repentance.
One does not choose...or not choose to repent on their own...by their free-will. No. God determines by either granting or not granting repentance.

Scripture, yet again, eliminating the philosophy of free-will as playing any part in a person's salvation.

Have you not ever heard of a freewill offering?

I heard mention of one.

And the 24 elders......?

 

[Josiah]

Here is your problem. You cannot have election and God's gifting of faith without particular redemption.

So..... God is subject to YOUR inability to understand. So much for the soverignty of God.... No, God is NOT subject to your puny, fallen, limited brain. God is bigger than you.

By rejecting the latter, you deny the first two.

No, I accept what God says. God loves all... Jesus died for all.... God does not give faith to all. If you cannot "connect the dots" that's YOUR problem, not God's. Just because God's ways are not necessarily YOUR ways... just because God knows more than YOU do doesn't make God wrong. It's more likely to mean.... well....

You are trying to live with two diametrically opposed views and imagine they are reconciled.

I never said ANYTHING is "reconciled." I could care less if anyone feels that anything is reconciled. God is not subject to you, it's the other way around.


No, they are not opposed. AGAIN, if I buy annual passes to Disneyland to all here at CH.... and not all embrace or use them.... that does NOT mandate that THEREFORE I lied when I said that I had annual passes for all. It simply means that not all accepted or used them. You again are simply doing what hyper-Calvinists are apt to do: disregard faith and reject the Protestant theology of Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide. If the US Treasury allows all US citizens to take a particular tax deduction.... and some don't take it... that does NOT mandate that therefore the US Treasury lied or only permitted it to those who claimed it - it only means not all claimed it. Your apologetic on this point - and in every point on this dogma - is extremely illogical.


And no, just because something is true in one case does NOT mean that ergo it is a dogmatic fact that it cannot be true in any other case. If I post I love my son does NOT mean ergo I cannot love my wife. Your logic on that point is also amazingly illogical.


There is NOTHING that states that Jesus died for ONLY a few, ONLY a minority of people, ONLY the elect, ONLY the church. And you've proved that by your inability to reference such a verse. And the Bible says the EXACT OPPOSITE, over and over and over again... you need to delete the key words and replace them with the opposite proves this.



- Josiah


.

 

[MennoSota]

So..... God is subject to YOUR inability to understand. So much for the soverignty of God.... No, God is NOT subject to your puny, fallen, limited brain. God is bigger than you.






No, I accept what God says. God loves all... Jesus died for all.... God does not give faith to all. If you cannot "connect the dots" that's YOUR problem, not God's. Just because God's ways are not necessarily YOUR ways... just because God knows more than YOU do doesn't make God wrong. It's more likely to mean.... well....






I never said ANYTHING is "reconciled." I could care less if anyone feels that anything is reconciled. God is not subject to you, it's the other way around.


No, they are not opposed. AGAIN, if I buy annual passes to Disneyland to all here at CH.... and not all embrace or use them.... that does NOT mandate that THEREFORE I lied when I said that I had annual passes for all. It simply means that not all accepted or used them. You again are simply doing what hyper-Calvinists are apt to do: disregard faith and reject the Protestant theology of Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide. If the US Treasury allows all US citizens to take a particular tax deduction.... and some don't take it... that does NOT mandate that therefore the US Treasury lied or only permitted it to those who claimed it - it only means not all claimed it. Your apologetic on this point - and in every point on this dogma - is extremely illogical.


And no, just because something is true in one case does NOT mean that ergo it is a dogmatic fact that it cannot be true in any other case. If I post I love my son does NOT mean ergo I cannot love my wife. Your logic on that point is also amazingly illogical.


There is NOTHING that states that Jesus died for ONLY a few, ONLY a minority of people, ONLY the elect, ONLY the church. And you've proved that by your inability to reference such a verse. And the Bible says the EXACT OPPOSITE, over and over and over again... you need to delete the key words and replace them with the opposite proves this.



- Josiah


.

God is not subject to anything. God shares particular atonement throughout scripture. You, on the other hand, are fighting against the simplicity of scripture in teaching election, God's gift of faith only to the elect, and God's atoning sacrifice, effective only for the elect.
It is not God's problem that you cannot accept what He has chosen to do. That's entirely your fault, Josiah.

 

[TurtleHare]

So lets say I am playing some stupid Nintendo game and I choose to either hit A or not... we are not talking about that correct? Terrible analogy I know but for sake of conversation you are defining 'will' as either good or evil, since we are all slaves to sin we have no free 'will', we are doomed from birth to be slaves to sin but God chooses our 'will' for us?

When your playing that video game if your playing as yourself then you can't choose the correct one that gets you to the end as a winner and now if you get chosen to be put on a team that will ultimately win in the end, then and only then can you select the right choice because you got that choice handed to you already by that team. Team Jesus yay all the way.

 

[Andrew]

When your playing that video game if your playing as yourself then you can't choose the correct one that gets you to the end as a winner and now if you get chosen to be put on a team that will ultimately win in the end, then and only then can you select the right choice because you got that choice handed to you already by that team. Team Jesus yay all the way.

Had to read that a few times to get that
Team Jesus indeed!

 

[pinacled]

Have you not ever heard of a freewill offering?

I heard mention of one.

And the 24 elders......?

Shemot(exodus) the words[ He was with God in the beginning
36;
So Bezalel, Oholiab and every skilled person to whom the Lord has given skill and ability to know how to carry out all the work of constructing the sanctuary are to do the work just as the Lord has commanded.”

2 Then Moses summoned Bezalel and Oholiab and every skilled person to whom the Lord had given ability and who was willing to come and do the work. 3 They received from Moses all the offerings the Israelites had brought to carry out the work of constructing the sanctuary. And the people continued to bring freewill offerings morning after morning. 4 So all the skilled workers who were doing all the work on the sanctuary left what they were doing 5 and said to Moses, “The people are bringing more than enough for doing the work the Lord commanded to be done.”

6 Then Moses gave an order and they sent this word throughout the camp: “No man or woman is to make anything else as an offering for the sanctuary.” And so the people were restrained from bringing more, 7 because what they already had was more than enough to do all the work.


I believe this is an excellent example of Charity.
1 corinthians 13;

With Christ in me I love God with all my heart...
Abiding in Christ I love my neighbor as myself.
Romans 13

Blessings Always

 

[Josiah]

God shares particular atonement throughout scripture.

So, it's surprising you can't find even one verse that states, "Jesus died ONLY, EXCLUSIVELY, JUST for the elect, the church, the few." Funny, since you claim it's "all over Scripture" that since you've come to this website, you haven't posted even one such verse. Not even one. Not ever. I think we all know why.

You are fighting against the simplicity of scripture in teaching election, God's gift of faith only to the elect, and God's atoning sacrifice, effective only for the elect.

No. You just like to play "the shell game" (as what you do is called in debate).


Here, too. NONE of the things you mention here is the dogma you claim is correct: That Jesus died ONLY, EXCLUSIVELY, SOLELY, JUST for the elect. Of course, I've agreed with you on positive election, I've agreed with you that God gives faith only to the elect, but none of that is the dogma you claim is correct: That Jesus died ONLY, EXCLUSIVELY, SOLELY, JUST for the elect. And your SILLY point that Christ's work is "effective" only for those with faith is of course something I've agreed with, but again, all we get from you is "the shell game" - the constant, perpetual, endless changing of the subject. The dogma you claim is true is NOT "Christs work results in the salvation of the elect" , it's not LIMITED EFFECT, it's that Jesus died ONLY for the elect. You have repeatedly and correctly stated the dogma invented by these FEW, latter-day, HYPER-Calvinists - you just keep dodging it, evading it. Every time anyone wants to discuss it, you just shift to some OTHER teaching. Slippery you are.


No, you have not presented even ONE verse that teaches this dogma, repudiated by nearly every Calvinists I've encountered. And when presented with the MANY Scriptures that flat-out, obviously, clearly contradict your dogma, you just effectively delete the word that condemns you and replace it with the opposite in THE most radical example of eisegesis I've witnessed.


I AGREE with you on monergism.... I AGREE with you on "positive" "single" predestination .... I AGREE with you that faith is purely a divine gift.... because that's exactly what the words of the Bible state. I (and probably 99.9999% of other Christians) disagree with you on this horrible, terrifying teaching of "Christ died ONLY for a few" because it is the opposite (as you have repeatedly proven), it's nowhere taught in Scripture, in fact clearly and undeniably, the opposite is repeatedly taught in the words of Scripture. A little humility and a submission to God's word would lead you to do the same (as nearly all Calvinists have).




.

 

[MennoSota]

So, it's surprising you can't find even one verse that states, "Jesus died ONLY, EXCLUSIVELY, JUST for the elect, the church, the few." Funny, since you claim it's "all over Scripture" that since you've come to this website, you haven't posted even one such verse. Not even one. Not ever. I think we all know why.





No. You just like to play "the shell game" (as what you do is called in debate).


Here, too. NONE of the things you mention here is the dogma you claim is correct: That Jesus died ONLY, EXCLUSIVELY, SOLELY, JUST for the elect. Of course, I've agreed with you on positive election, I've agreed with you that God gives faith only to the elect, but none of that is the dogma you claim is correct: That Jesus died ONLY, EXCLUSIVELY, SOLELY, JUST for the elect. And your SILLY point that Christ's work is "effective" only for those with faith is of course something I've agreed with, but again, all we get from you is "the shell game" - the constant, perpetual, endless changing of the subject. The dogma you claim is true is NOT "Christs work results in the salvation of the elect" , it's not LIMITED EFFECT, it's that Jesus died ONLY for the elect. You have repeatedly and correctly stated the dogma invented by these FEW, latter-day, HYPER-Calvinists - you just keep dodging it, evading it. Every time anyone wants to discuss it, you just shift to some OTHER teaching. Slippery you are.


No, you have not presented even ONE verse that teaches this dogma, repudiated by nearly every Calvinists I've encountered. And when presented with the MANY Scriptures that flat-out, obviously, clearly contradict your dogma, you just effectively delete the word that condemns you and replace it with the opposite in THE most radical example of eisegesis I've witnessed.


I AGREE with you on monergism.... I AGREE with you on "positive" "single" predestination .... I AGREE with you that faith is purely a divine gift.... because that's exactly what the words of the Bible state. I (and probably 99.9999% of other Christians) disagree with you on this horrible, terrifying teaching of "Christ died ONLY for a few" because it is the opposite (as you have repeatedly proven), it's nowhere taught in Scripture, in fact clearly and undeniably, the opposite is repeatedly taught in the words of Scripture. A little humility and a submission to God's word would lead you to do the same (as nearly all Calvinists have).




.

I have shared. You, like an atheist, demand a very specific revelation in order to accept what is most evident. If you believe that people are elect and they cannot have faith unless God grants it, then the obvious truth is that God's atonement is particularly provided to those whom he has elected to give the gift of faith.
Any belief in universal atonement must be met by universal salvation...otherwise you make salvation to be attained by merit, not grace.
I recognize you are blind to this fact. I cannot make you see in your blindness. This is something that God may open your eyes to see. If not, I thank God He is gracious with our blindness around His word.

 

[Josiah]

I have shared.

You have stated the dogma invented in the late 16th Century by a FEW latter-day HYPER-Calvinists: "Jesus died for ONLY, EXCLUSIVELY, JUST a few."

What you have not done is shared any Scripture that states that.... and you have twisted upside down and inside out the MANY Scriptures that flat-out, clearly, contradict your dogma - simply by effectively deleting all words that contradict you and replacing them with opposite words that support your position (except they are the opposite of what the Holy Spirit put there).

You demand a very specific revelation in order to accept

That's YOUR rubric; you have often stated that you will reject any new, unique dogma (like "Jesus died ONLY for JUST a few") unless it is clearly stated in the words we read in the Bible and not in conflict with Scripture. It's just you do a 180 when it comes to the new, unique dogma you support: "Jesus died ONLY for the elect, the few." A new, unique dogma of a tiny minority of latter-day, hyper-Calvinists stated nowhere in the Bible and contradicted all over the Bible.

Any belief in universal atonement must be met by universal salvation...

1. ONLY because you (like some other hyper-Calvinists) delete the issue of faith and abandon the Protestant theology of Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide.

2. AGAIN, I agree with monergism and positive election and that faith is a divine gift. ALL because Scripture flat out states that. I reject the new, invented dogma in the late 16th Century by a tiny number of latter-day HYPER-Calvinists because Scripture says exactly the opposite and because no Scripture teaches that (as you have proven so undeniably).

3. I'm again reminded that Universalism came out of the radical Calvinism you promote. All over the East coast are Unitarian-Universalists churches that once were hyper-Calvinists ones (including the congregation of the Pilgrims in Plymouth). Like you, they increasingly realized faith is irrelevant.

4. Interesting to see how you so completely abandon Sola Scriptura on this point.... the Protestant Theology of Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide.... how you reject any new invented dogma by some tiny group except on this point.... how you reject eisegesis but then give the most radical example of it I've ever seen. There's a reason nearly all Calvinists have repudiated this, how they condemn it as "HYPER-Calvinism" but you seem blind to that.



A blessed New Year to all...


- Josiah





.

 

[MennoSota]

You have stated the dogma invented in the late 16th Century by a FEW latter-day HYPER-Calvinists: "Jesus died for ONLY, EXCLUSIVELY, JUST a few."

What you have not done is shared any Scripture that states that.... and you have twisted upside down and inside out the MANY Scriptures that flat-out, clearly, contradict your dogma - simply by effectively deleting all words that contradict you and replacing them with opposite words that support your position (except they are the opposite of what the Holy Spirit put there).






That's YOUR rubric; you have often stated that you will reject any new, unique dogma (like "Jesus died ONLY for JUST a few") unless it is clearly stated in the words we read in the Bible and not in conflict with Scripture. It's just you do a 180 when it comes to the new, unique dogma you support: "Jesus died ONLY for the elect, the few." A new, unique dogma of a tiny minority of latter-day, hyper-Calvinists stated nowhere in the Bible and contradicted all over the Bible.






1. ONLY because you (like some other hyper-Calvinists) delete the issue of faith and abandon the Protestant theology of Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide.

2. AGAIN, I agree with monergism and positive election and that faith is a divine gift. ALL because Scripture flat out states that. I reject the new, invented dogma in the late 16th Century by a tiny number of latter-day HYPER-Calvinists because Scripture says exactly the opposite and because no Scripture teaches that (as you have proven so undeniably).

3. I'm again reminded that Universalism came out of the radical Calvinism you promote. All over the East coast are Unitarian-Universalists churches that once were hyper-Calvinists ones (including the congregation of the Pilgrims in Plymouth). Like you, they increasingly realized faith is irrelevant.

4. Interesting to see how you so completely abandon Sola Scriptura on this point.... the Protestant Theology of Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide.... how you reject any new invented dogma by some tiny group except on this point.... how you reject eisegesis but then give the most radical example of it I've ever seen. There's a reason nearly all Calvinists have repudiated this, how they condemn it as "HYPER-Calvinism" but you seem blind to that.



A blessed New Year to all...


- Josiah





.

Josiah, scripture was not written in the late 16th century. Jesus tells us he came to care for those the Father has given him. He doesn't say he came to save the entire world. Why do you demand from Jesus what He never promised? Paul writes that that not all Israel is Israel. He reminds us that not all are saved. Not all are atoned for. Not all will receive faith to believe.
All this speaks loud and clear. If, as you claim, Christ atoned for all sins...then all sinners would be atoned for. This is fact. Yet you claim with one side of your mouth while denying with your other side of the mouth.
It is pure silliness on your part to hide behind the 16th century as an argument for why God didn't share with us that he came to save the elect. You know God tells us he came to save all that the Father has given Him.
You seem to really struggle with simple logic and truth on this issue.

 

[Josiah]

Josiah, scripture was not written in the late 16th century.

Correct. But the dogma you are claiming to defend was. By a tiny number of latter-day HYPER-Calvinists. The Dogma that "Jesus died for ONLY, EXCLUSIVELY, JUST for a few."

As you've so powerfully proven, Scripture never states that (you would have provided the verse if it existed). And it flat-out contradicts a LOT of Scriptures which you too have proven because you've had to effectively delete the key words in them and replace them with the opposite to get them to not condemn your stance.

All this speaks loud and clear.

Then it's easy, isn't it. Just quote the verse that states that Jesus died for ONLY, EXCLUSIVELY, JUST the few, the elect, the church.... and that all those many Scriptures that say the opposite are wrong.

If, as you claim, Christ atoned for all sins...then all sinners would be atoned for.

AGAIN, only if you eliminate the issue of faith. Can you see how much of hyper-Calvinism ended up in universalism? I do... especially seeing how you eliminate any role for faith.

You know God tells us he came to save all that the Father has given Him.

But you can't find "ONLY."

Funny how hyper-Calvinists talk SO much about how "logical" they are, and yet this is one of THE most silly, most illogical apologetics I've ever heard.

Again, if I posted that I love my wife, it's just absurd, it's obviously SILLY and totally illogical to insist (dogmatically, yet) as hyper-Calvinists do, that ERGO I do not love God or my parents. It's silly. If I say that a Ford Mustang is a car does NOT mandate that ERGO a Ford Focus cannot be a car.

You are simply apply the WORSE eisegesis I've ever witnessed..... and flat-out, obviously, contradicting a LOT of very clear Scriptures in the process.





..

 

[MennoSota]

Correct. But the dogma you are claiming to defend was. By a tiny number of latter-day HYPER-Calvinists. The Dogma that "Jesus died for ONLY, EXCLUSIVELY, JUST for a few."

As you've so powerfully proven, Scripture never states that (you would have provided the verse if it existed). And it flat-out contradicts a LOT of Scriptures which you too have proven because you've had to effectively delete the key words in them and replace them with the opposite to get them to not condemn your stance.






Then it's easy, isn't it. Just quote the verse that states that Jesus died for ONLY, EXCLUSIVELY, JUST the few, the elect, the church.... and that all those many Scriptures that say the opposite are wrong.







AGAIN, only if you eliminate the issue of faith. Can you see how much of hyper-Calvinism ended up in universalism? I do... especially seeing how you eliminate any role for faith.






But you can't find "ONLY."

Funny how hyper-Calvinists talk SO much about how "logical" they are, and yet this is one of THE most silly, most illogical apologetics I've ever heard.

Again, if I posted that I love my wife, it's just absurd, it's obviously SILLY and totally illogical to insist (dogmatically, yet) as hyper-Calvinists do, that ERGO I do not love God or my parents. It's silly. If I say that a Ford Mustang is a car does NOT mandate that ERGO a Ford Focus cannot be a car.

You are simply apply the WORSE eisegesis I've ever witnessed..... and flat-out, obviously, contradicting a LOT of very clear Scriptures in the process.





..

No dogma. Scripture.
The consistency of scripture is what you are rejecting. You cannot have universal atonement and still have people go to hell.

 

[Josiah]

No dogma. Scripture.
The consistency of scripture is what you are rejecting. You cannot have universal atonement and still have people go to hell.

There is NOTHING in Scripture that states this invented dogma of a FEW latter-day HYPER-Calvinists: "Jesus died ONLY for a FEW."

There are MANY Scriptures that flat-out contradict that dogma, that verbatim state the exact opposite.

FAITH is what apprehends/embraces Christ's work... if faith is absent, so is the benefit of that work. Because you eliminate faith and its role, you create this "problem." It's a hyper-Calvinist problem which lead many of them to become Universalists.

No, I'm not following many Hyper-Calvinists into Universalism. I'm following Scripture. God loves all. Christ died for all. All with the gift of faith are justified. That's what God says. That's what I accept and believe. Like nearly all monergists. It's these FEW latter-day hyper-Calvinists who contradict that, who invented this dogma in the late 16th Century. If you feel God that is not as smart as you are, and these tiny number of (now almost entirely repudiated) latter-day hyper-Calvinists must correct God... well.... IMO.... that's just your ego (and denial of the soverignty of God). God is bigger than all the hyper-Calvinists and Universalists put together. What He states "trumps" the obviously horrible "logic" you are parroting from them ("if something is true in a case, it ergo CANNOT be true in any other" Etc., etc., etc.) and the horrible eisegesis you impose. Some humility might lead you to accept what God says.

 

[MennoSota]

There is NOTHING in Scripture that states this invented dogma of a FEW latter-day HYPER-Calvinists: "Jesus died ONLY for a FEW."

There are MANY Scriptures that flat-out contradict that dogma, that verbatim state the exact opposite.

FAITH is what apprehends/embraces Christ's work... if faith is absent, so is the benefit of that work. Because you eliminate faith and its role, you create this "problem." It's a hyper-Calvinist problem which lead many of them to become Universalists.

No, I'm not following many Hyper-Calvinists into Universalism. I'm following Scripture. God loves all. Christ died for all. All with the gift of faith are justified. That's what God says. That's what I accept and believe. Like nearly all monergists. It's these FEW latter-day hyper-Calvinists who contradict that, who invented this dogma in the late 16th Century. If you feel God that is not as smart as you are, and these tiny number of (now almost entirely repudiated) latter-day hyper-Calvinists must correct God... well.... IMO.... that's just your ego (and denial of the soverignty of God). God is bigger than all the hyper-Calvinists and Universalists put together. What He states "trumps" the obviously horrible "logic" you are parroting from them ("if something is true in a case, it ergo CANNOT be true in any other" Etc., etc., etc.) and the horrible eisegesis you impose. Some humility might lead you to accept what God says.

No invented dogma, Josiah. God has always chosen according to His own will.
You are merely ignoring your huge doctrinal dilemma.
You claim universal atonement and limited salvation by God for those Jesus died to save..
I claim limited atonement and universal salvation by God for those whom Jesus died to save.