the meaning of Baptism

[MennoSota]

How could a child have faith? With Luther, it was the vicarious faith of the parents or the godparents. That’s where godparents came from, surrogate parents whose faith would intercede on behalf of the child. With Luther, vicarious faith of the parents or the godparents wasn’t enough. He even went further and said, “The children themselves must believe. If one asks how is that possible? One receives the answer, the Holy Spirit helps them to believe. The Holy Spirit comes to the children in the holy Baptism by this bath of regeneration He has richly poured out on them.”

Martin Luther? Who discovered salvation by grace alone, through faith alone and Christ alone? Some even called it unconscious faith. So there were those who were holding to surrogate faith on the part of parents and godparents…that wasn’t enough for Luther.

The great mark of the Reformation was justification…justification not by sacrament, not by ceremony, not by symbol. Justification by faith through grace, how could they understand that and then come up with something like infant Baptism which by a rite on a baby confers to that baby salvation? Infant Baptism is nothing, has no saving efficacy, delivers no grace, confers no faith, is a symbol of nothing. It is absolutely and totally pointless.

It leads to ritualism, confusion and false security. You know, the Reformers cry wasn’t tradition, tradition, tradition. It wasn’t the fathers, the fathers, the fathers. What was it? We read it earlier? Scripture, Scripture, Scripture. We believe what we believe because that’s what Scripture teaches. Well, that’s enough for the night. Let’s pray.

Father, we thank You for Your Word again. We don’t try to pick a fight with people for the sake of antagonism, but of necessity we need to speak the truth and make the truth clear, unmistakable as it’s revealed in Your Word. This devilish conduct of infant Baptism has survived through two thousand years of church life from very early on, the third century, embedded in the fourth and still here. We could only ask, Lord, that the Reformation would be a complete Reformation. There would be no confusion about the true church. This is so important that we know who the true church is…that people not be confused. People not think they’re saved because they received some rite as an infant, parents not think they’re children are saved because of that. Help us to be faithful to the truth, proclaim the gospel. And those who believe, may we be faithful to be obedient and be baptized and make that profession of faith, confessing You before men that we might be confessed by You before Your Father who is in heaven. Thank You for a wonderful day and this wonderful church, great fellowship. Now as we spend some time together, enrich that time and bless every person who is here with all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies in Christ, we pray in His name. Everybody said…Amen…Amen.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I knew that Baptists could be wordy but these recent posts by MennoSota are more wordy than I expected!

 

[Lamb]

Is all this copy and paste text copyrighted???? :attention:

 

[MoreCoffee]

Even the Catechism is short compared to Menno's posts!

THE SACRAMENT OF BAPTISM

252. What names are given to the first sacrament of initiation?

This sacrament is primarily called Baptism because of the central rite with which it is celebrated. To baptise means to “immerse” in water. The one who is baptised is immersed into the death of Christ and rises with him as a “new creature” (2 Corinthians 5:17). This sacrament is also called the “bath of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit” (Titus 3:5); and it is called “enlightenment” because the baptised becomes “a son of light” (Ephesians 5:8).

253. How is Baptism prefigured in the Old Covenant?

In the Old Covenant Baptism was pre-figured in various ways: water, seen as source of life and of death; in the Ark of Noah, which saved by means of water; in the passing through the Red Sea, which liberated Israel from Egyptian slavery; in the crossing of the Jordan River, that brought Israel into the promised land which is the image of eternal life.

254. Who brought to fulfilment those prefigurations?

All the Old Covenant prefigurations find their fulfillment in Jesus Christ. At the beginning of his public life Jesus had himself baptised by John the Baptist in the Jordan. On the cross, blood and water, signs of Baptism and the Eucharist, flowed from his pierced side. After his Resurrection he gave to his apostles this mission: “Go forth and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:19).

255. Starting when and to whom has the Church administered Baptism?

From the day of Pentecost, the Church has administered Baptism to anyone who believes in Jesus Christ.

256. In what does the essential rite of Baptism consist?

The essential rite of this sacrament consists in immersing the candidate in water or pouring water over his or her head while invoking the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

257. Who can receive Baptism?

Every person not yet baptised is able to receive Baptism.

258. Why does the Church baptise infants?

The Church baptises infants because they are born with original sin. They need to be freed from the power of the Evil One and brought into that realm of freedom which belongs to the children of God.

259. What is required of one who is to be baptised?

Everyone who is to be baptised is required to make a profession of faith. This is done personally in the case of an adult or by the parents and by the Church in the case of infants. Also the godfather or the godmother and the whole ecclesial community share the responsibility for baptismal preparation (catechumenate) as well as for the development and safeguarding of the faith and grace given at baptism.

260. Who can baptise?

The ordinary ministers of Baptism are the bishop and the priest. In the Latin Church the deacon also can baptise. In case of necessity any person can baptise provided he has the intention of doing what the Church does. This is done by pouring water on the head of the candidate while saying the Trinitarian formula for Baptism: “I baptise you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”.

261. Is Baptism necessary for salvation?


Baptism is necessary for salvation for all those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.

262. Is it possible to be saved without Baptism?

Since Christ died for the salvation of all, those can be saved without Baptism who die for the faith (Baptism of blood). Catechumens and all those who, even without knowing Christ and the Church, still (under the impulse of grace) sincerely seek God and strive to do his will can also be saved without Baptism (Baptism of desire). The Church in her liturgy entrusts children who die without Baptism to the mercy of God.

263. What are the effects of Baptism?

Baptism takes away original sin, all personal sins and all punishment due to sin. It makes the baptised person a participant in the divine life of the Trinity through sanctifying grace, the grace of justification which incorporates one into Christ and into his Church. It gives one a share in the priesthood of Christ and provides the basis for communion with all Christians. It bestows the theological virtues and the gifts of the Holy Spirit. A baptised person belongs forever to Christ. He is marked with the indelible seal of Christ (character).

264. What is the meaning of the Christian name received at Baptism?

The name is important because God knows each of us by name, that is, in our uniqueness as persons. In Baptism a Christian receives his or her own name in the Church. It should preferably be the name of a saint who might offer the baptised a model of sanctity and an assurance of his or her intercession before God.

(source)​

 

[MennoSota]

Is all this copy and paste text copyrighted???? :attention:

We are happy to allow you permission to use content from the Library section of our website under the following guidelines.

Using GTY Web Content – General Guidelines

Provide the content for free.
Make no changes to the content.
Credit the content to John MacArthur or Grace to You.

 

[Lamb]

We are happy to allow you permission to use content from the Library section of our website under the following guidelines.

Using GTY Web Content – General Guidelines

Provide the content for free.
Make no changes to the content.
Credit the content to John MacArthur or Grace to You.

Thank you for providing the release!

 

[MoreCoffee]

GTY is John MacArthur's personal sound board

 

[Confessional Lutheran]

GTY is John MacArthur's personal sound board

Who's John MacArthur?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Who's John MacArthur?

A Californian pastor, quite elderly now, who is the primary pastor of Grace To You and of the associated church.

 

[Confessional Lutheran]

A Californian pastor, quite elderly now, who is the primary pastor of Grace To You and of the associated church.

Thanks. I've got a better idea about this gentleman now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._MacArthur

 

[Cassia]

Comparatively to abiding which is the form of having the door closed by God after boarding the arch like those 8 who were saved in that baptism, abiding in the baptism would be from full immersion of the Word rather than just a sprinkling

::studying: :cool-relaxed:

 

[MoreCoffee]

Comparatively to abiding which is the form of having the door closed by God after boarding the arch like those 8 who were saved in that baptism, abiding in the baptism would be from full immersion of the Word rather than just a sprinkling

::studying: :cool-relaxed:

Did you see my post about the meaning of baptism

Post #404

 

[Confessional Lutheran]

Here's a link to the Lutheran position on the topic: http://bookofconcord.org/lc-6-baptism.php.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Here's a link to the Lutheran position on the topic: http://bookofconcord.org/lc-6-baptism.php.

It's long!

:smirk:

Almost as long as MennoSota's posts

:scared:

 

[Confessional Lutheran]

It's long!

:smirk:

Almost as long as MennoSota's posts

:scared:

Herr Doktor Martin Luther had an eye for detail, one must give that to him. The important bit is that children should be brought to baptism as soon as may be, to fulfill the Divine Commission to baptize every nation in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. No age restriction is mentioned and as households were baptized, this would imply the inclusion of infants into the New Covenant.

 

[atpollard]

Acts 16:14-15 NASB
14 A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul. 15 And when she and her household had been baptized, she urged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay.” And she prevailed upon us.


Just for fun, a quick look at one of those 'baptized households'. Lydia (a woman) was head of the household with no mention of a husband. Given what I know about 'worshippers of God' in general, and procreation in particular, I think the odds of a baby in her house is below average.

 

[atpollard]

Acts 16:31-34 NASB
31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household. 34 And he brought them into his house and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, having believed in God with his whole household.

Another of those 'baptized households' to examine. Here it was the household of the jailer who was baptized. If we pluck verse 33 out and just read it all alone, it does say he and all his household were baptized. However, let's not pluck it out of context.

Acts 16:30 indicates that the jailer was ready to accept ... God had already prepared his heart. Acts 16:31 was spoken in the jail. Yet notice Acts 16:32 where Luke makes a point of telling us that Paul repeated the Gospel to the jailer's whole household, and in Acts 16:34 that the whole household believed!

That is all 'baptists' want, is for those who are baptized to hear and believe for themselves. It is not an 'unbiblical' view. Here you have exactly that happening.

 

[atpollard]

Acts 18:8 NASB
8 Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.

Here again we have the entire household of Crispus "believed in the Lord" and many Corinthians were ...
1) hearing
2) believing
3) being baptized.

(Just like Baptists and Evangelicals still do things.)
What we do not see is any evidence of an unbelieving household getting baptized on the faith of another.

 

[atpollard]

1 Corinthians 1:16 NASB
Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other.

1 Corinthians 16:15-18 NASB
15 Now I urge you, brethren (you know the household of Stephanas, that they were the first fruits of Achaia, and that they have devoted themselves for ministry to the saints), 16 that you also be in subjection to such men and to everyone who helps in the work and labors. 17 I rejoice over the coming of Stephanas and Fortunatus and Achaicus, because they have supplied what was lacking on your part. 18 For they have refreshed my spirit and yours. Therefore acknowledge such men.

Paul baptized the household of Stephanas. From chapter 16 of the same letter, we also know that the 'household' of Stephanas devoted themselves for the ministry of the saints and Stephanas himself appears to have left home to travel to Paul to deliver supplies. This does not prove that there were no small children (too young to help) in the household od Stephanas, but it also is very far from indicating that there were small children in the household of Stephanas.

The same verses that claim the ENTIRE household was baptized also claim that the ENTIRE household devoted themselves for ministry to the saints.

 

[atpollard]

Just for the record, I am not attempting to shout "for heaven's sake, stop sprinkling those babies!" I realize that it may appear that way, but that is not my goal. My goals are more subtle than my methods. I am attempting to comment on the subject of "What is baptism?"

It will probably come as a surprise, but I am actually a supporter of the Church-family Covenant extending over an entire household (just as it did in the OT). I will freely admit that the arguments that baptism is the new circumcision seem flawed and a bit of a stretch from the text arguments that I have seen. However, this is not the topic for THAT particular discussion.

I wanted to point out that Scripture really does present a strong link between hearing, believing and being baptized. I believe that it is no accident that the word "baptize" means to plunge under water and that is tied to verses like Romans 6:4 ... and something is lost when a parent or priest "believes" for an infant and they are "sprinkled". God's word-picture has suffered harm from the traditions of man.

The Southern Baptists talk about the past-present-future aspect of many of the Biblical Sacraments. Let's look at Baptism from the SB perspective:

Past - Christ Died on the Cross, was buried in the tomb, and rose from the dead on the third day ... for US.

Present - When we are baptized by immersion as confessing believers (notice there is no age here, just understanding), we die to our old life, we are buried with Christ (as we plunge beneath the water), our sins are washed away and we emerge from the water a new being.

Future - The expression I heard is already, but not yet. Just as there are images of Jesus death and Resurection in our water baptism, so too there are glimpses of our future destiny in our water baptism. Unless Jesus returns first, we will all die a physical death and our bodies will be placed into the ground. However, that is not the end. We will wash away this corruptible flesh and be reborn, one more time, with incorruptible bodies. We will not merely rise out of the water, but we will rise all the way to the presence of God.

The Death, Burial and Rebirth of Baptism is a sacred living word picture of our past, present and future relationship with Jesus Christ.
To sprinkle an unaware baby on the faith of a parent and godparent has, IMHO stolen something precious from the experiences of a future believer.

Of course babies of believers are under the covenant, but the price for sprinkling them is too high (And unnecessary).
I hope that made some sense (even if you disagree).