The 'I agree with the Pope on this' thread

[Josiah]

Some thoughts.....


1. The Bible indicates that the Angels celebrated our Lord's birth. So did the Shepherds. So did the Wise Men. I find NOTHING in Scripture that clearly indicates that all these sinned and offended God by celebrating the Coming of Our Lord.


2. The Bible never records the EXACT DATE of His birth. While I'd not place too much importance on that, maybe it wasn't recorded because the DATE isn't what matters, the EVENT is what matters. The Shepherds.... the Angels.... the Wise Men celebrated the Birth of Our Lord, not a date.


3. No one has been able to determine the actual date to supply what God in Scripture did not. Frankly, some GUESSES seem plausible but since the point is not the DATE but the CHRIST, it just doesn't matter what DATE is the actual, technical anniversary.... the anniversary isn't the point, Christ is the point. Since no one has been able to pin down the actual anniversary date of His birth (as if that mattered), then any is as good as any other. We do know that early Christians celebrated that birth on a very wide variety of dates, but eventually uniformity was desired and a date was chosen in the 4th Century on which all agreed henceforth the celebration would happen - universally. NOT because it was determine this was the best guess as to the anniversary but simply for the sake of order and commonality.


4. If some think the Shepherds, Angels and Wise Men were sinful and detestable and condemnable for celebrating Jesus' birth - and therefore they won't celebrate it either, I say: Fine (their choice) But I disagree. If they can prove the actual anniversary date..... and present biblical evidence that we are commanded to celebrate it only on that date.... that's fine, too. But that hasn't happened in 2000 years and I doubt any are holding their breath.


5. If Christians REALLY want to get all upset and obsessed over something, maybe they'd be more useful if they spoke up against child abuse or war or the decline in the percentage of humans who identify themselves as Christians. Seems to ME there is a LONG LIST of things they could get upset about .... rather than joining with the Angels, Shepherds and Wise Men in celebrating the Coming of the Christ. But that's just me.



- Josiah




.

 

[Albion]

I would say everyday. Especially considering a Male child is born every day of the yr. And is circumcised on his eight day.

Sorry, but that is not an answer or an alternative.

The liars who have dared to impose a calendar day as Yeshua's, OUR LORD and SAVIORs birthday.
Having no resemblance of the Truth, have done enough damage to the World.

And that's a reply that attempts to change the subject.

 

[Andrew]

2. The Bible never records the EXACT DATE of His birth. While I'd not place too much importance on that, maybe it wasn't recorded because the DATE isn't what matters, the EVENT is what matters. The Shepherds.... the Angels.... the Wise Men celebrated the Birth of Our Lord, not a date.

.

Exactly dates aren't important, the gregorian calendar was introduced later and if I'm not mistaken, dates were more or less observed on solstice or astronomical seasons in ancient days and Jewish holidays were probably stamped 'around' the time of OT events and in that season.
What date did David kill Goliath? What date did the flood end? What date did Moses part the red sea?


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[pinacled]

Sorry, but that is not an answer or an alternative.


And that's a reply that attempts to change the subject.

Then perhaps you should be careful as to whether you follow the Holy One of Israel instruction.
And what day was it that our Lord of Lights resurrected?
Oil for a lamp to 5 wise virgins.


But I tell you that men will give an account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”



John 4:10 Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." . . . 14] but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."

John 6:27"Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal." 28] Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" 29] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
From Revelation which Jesus gave to John:
Revelation 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
Which echos Isaiah 55:1:
Isaiah 55:1 "Ho! Every one who thirsts, come to the waters; And you who have no money come, buy and eat. Come, buy wine and milk Without money and without cost.

 

[pinacled]

Some thoughts.....


1. The Bible indicates that the Angels celebrated our Lord's birth. So did the Shepherds. So did the Wise Men. I find NOTHING in Scripture that clearly indicates that all these sinned and offended God by celebrating the Coming of Our Lord.


2. The Bible never records the EXACT DATE of His birth. While I'd not place too much importance on that, maybe it wasn't recorded because the DATE isn't what matters, the EVENT is what matters. The Shepherds.... the Angels.... the Wise Men celebrated the Birth of Our Lord, not a date.


3. No one has been able to determine the actual date to supply what God in Scripture did not. Frankly, some GUESSES seem plausible but since the point is not the DATE but the CHRIST, it just doesn't matter what DATE is the actual, technical anniversary.... the anniversary isn't the point, Christ is the point. Since no one has been able to pin down the actual anniversary date of His birth (as if that mattered), then any is as good as any other. We do know that early Christians celebrated that birth on a very wide variety of dates, but eventually uniformity was desired and a date was chosen in the 4th Century on which all agreed henceforth the celebration would happen - universally. NOT because it was determine this was the best guess as to the anniversary but simply for the sake of order and commonality.


4. If some think the Shepherds, Angels and Wise Men were sinful and detestable and condemnable for celebrating Jesus' birth - and therefore they won't celebrate it either, I say: Fine (their choice) But I disagree. If they can prove the actual anniversary date..... and present biblical evidence that we are commanded to celebrate it only on that date.... that's fine, too. But that hasn't happened in 2000 years and I doubt any are holding their breath.


5. If Christians REALLY want to get all upset and obsessed over something, maybe they'd be more useful if they spoke up against child abuse or war or the decline in the percentage of humans who identify themselves as Christians. Seems to ME there is a LONG LIST of things they could get upset about .... rather than joining with the Angels, Shepherds and Wise Men in celebrating the Coming of the Christ. But that's just me.



- Josiah




.

If it a date wasnt so important, then ask why someone dared to mark a calendar day

 

[pinacled]

Exactly dates aren't important, the gregorian calendar was introduced later and if I'm not mistaken, dates were more or less observed on solstice or astronomical seasons in ancient days and Jewish holidays were probably stamped 'around' the time of OT events and in that season.
What date did David kill Goliath? What date did the flood end? What date did Moses part the red sea?


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Right you are about dates. And how many have heeded to Moses being read.
You pore over the Scriptures because you presume that by them you possess eternal life. These are the very words that testify about Me, yet you refuse to come to Me to have life.…
Waters and a Dove?
Noah and his children prayed constantly, and at last the flood quieted down. A wind blew over the earth and the Ark came to rest upon the mountains of Ararat, after it had been afloat for seven months.
After another seven days, the winged messenger was sent out again and returned no more. A feeling of gladness must in truth have filled Noah’s heart, for in the beginning of the first month,
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/246609/jewish/Noah-and-the-Flood.htm

“Let it be so now, Jesus replied. “It is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness” in this way. Then John permitted Him. 16As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him.

 

[Andrew]

If it a date wasnt so important, then ask why someone dared to mark a calendar day

Remember the Sabbath day

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[Albion]

Then perhaps you should be careful as to whether you follow the Holy One of Israel instruction.
And what day was it that our Lord of Lights resurrected?
Oil for a lamp to 5 wise virgins.


But I tell you that men will give an account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”



John 4:10 Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." . . . 14] but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."

John 6:27"Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal." 28] Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" 29] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
From Revelation which Jesus gave to John:
Revelation 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
Which echos Isaiah 55:1:
Isaiah 55:1 "Ho! Every one who thirsts, come to the waters; And you who have no money come, buy and eat. Come, buy wine and milk Without money and without cost.

Got anything that relates to what I wrote??

Or, for that matter, to what DHoffmann wrote?

 

[pinacled]

Remember the Sabbath day

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Remember the Sabbath Day?

Yes, and Who was it that Bought us and our Freedom?
What was it ole paul said about being slaves to the Holy One Of Yisrael?
not by way of eye service, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart.

Jesus replied, “A wicked and adulterous generation demands a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41The men of Nineveh will stand at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now One greater than Jonah is here.…
The time the people of Isra’el lived in Egypt was 430 years. 41 At the end of 430 years to the day, all the divisions of Adonai left the land of Egypt. 42 This was a night when Adonai kept vigil to bring them out of the land of Egypt, and this same night continues to be a night when Adonai keeps vigil for all the people of Isra’el through all their generations.

43 Adonai said to Moshe and Aharon, “This is the regulation for the Pesach lamb: no foreigner is to eat it. 44 But if anyone has a slave he bought for money, when you have circumcised him, he may eat it. 45 Neither a traveler nor a hired servant may eat it. 46 It is to be eaten in one house. You are not to take any of the meat outside the house, and you are not to break any of its bones. 47 The whole community of Isra’el is to keep it. 48 If a foreigner staying with you wants to observe Adonai’s Pesach, all his males must be circumcised. Then he may take part and observe it; he will be like a citizen of the land. But no uncircumcised person is to eat it. 49 The same teaching is to apply equally to the citizen and to the foreigner living among you.”

50 All the people of Isra’el did just as Adonai had ordered Moshe and Aharon. 51 On that very day, Adonai brought the people of Isra’el out of the land of Egypt by their divisions.

 

[Andrew]

Right you are about dates. And how many have heeded to Moses being read.
You pore over the Scriptures because you presume that by them you possess eternal life. These are the very words that testify about Me, yet you refuse to come to Me to have life.…
Waters and a Dove?
Noah and his children prayed constantly, and at last the flood quieted down. A wind blew over the earth and the Ark came to rest upon the mountains of Ararat, after it had been afloat for seven months.
After another seven days, the winged messenger was sent out again and returned no more. A feeling of gladness must in truth have filled Noah’s heart, for in the beginning of the first month,
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/246609/jewish/Noah-and-the-Flood.htm

“Let it be so now, Jesus replied. “It is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness” in this way. Then John permitted Him. 16As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him.

7 is not a date however.
One could speculate, lets say that the first day of Genesis is Sunday the 1rst, on the 6th day man was created and were told to observe the seventh day, 7 days later God is heard walking through the garden and Adam was hidden, we could speculate then that the fall began on Friday the 13th. The year and month tho?
Our Pentecostal preacher 'assured' every one that it's okay to have a Christmas tree even tho it has druid origins, Jesus is the reason for the season.
Symbolically the world had grown cold, Jesus is born and the days start to become longer and spring comes along and everything is reborn... symbology and parables are part of his ministry and a date such as Christmas is appropriate to officially 'remind' the masses of Christ, Christmas. Holiday/Holy day observance, Jesus celebrated on certain days as well.

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[pinacled]

7 is not a date however.
One could speculate, lets say that the first day of Genesis is Sunday the 1rst, on the 6th day man was created and were told to observe the seventh day, 7 days later God is heard walking through the garden and Adam was hidden, we could speculate then that the fall began on Friday the 13th. The year and month tho?
Our Pentecostal preacher 'assured' every one that it's okay to have a Christmas tree even tho it has druid origins, Jesus is the reason for the season.
Symbolically the world had grown cold, Jesus is born and the days start to become longer and spring comes along and everything is reborn... symbology and parables are part of his ministry and a date such as Christmas is appropriate to officially 'remind' the masses of Christ, Christmas. Holiday/Holy day observance, Jesus celebrated on certain days as well.

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And Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is?

 

[Albion]

Our Pentecostal preacher 'assured' every one that it's okay to have a Christmas tree even tho it has druid origins, Jesus is the reason for the season.

It's just a side issue to what you were posting about, but the Christmas tree does not have Druid origins. The Druids used different trees, and the Christians used evergreens in order to upstage and to educate the pagans about the nature of Christ who never dies. There's a similarity, but no more than a hundred other incidental similarities between Christian practice and worship and that of almost every other religion in the world.

 

[Andrew]

And Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is?

Did Jesus as a Jew not observe the Passover?

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[pinacled]

Did Jesus as a Jew not observe the Passover?

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And With the bread and wine What day do you remember?

Or have you partaken of the Bread and Wine? Yes, or No...

 

[Albion]

Maundy Thursday.

 

[pinacled]

Remember the Sabbath Day?

Yes, and Who was it that Bought us and our Freedom?
What was it ole paul said about being slaves to the Holy One Of Yisrael?
not by way of eye service, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart.

Jesus replied, “A wicked and adulterous generation demands a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41The men of Nineveh will stand at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now One greater than Jonah is here.…
The time the people of Isra’el lived in Egypt was 430 years. 41 At the end of 430 years to the day, all the divisions of Adonai left the land of Egypt. 42 This was a night when Adonai kept vigil to bring them out of the land of Egypt, and this same night continues to be a night when Adonai keeps vigil for all the people of Isra’el through all their generations.

43 Adonai said to Moshe and Aharon, “This is the regulation for the Pesach lamb: no foreigner is to eat it. 44 But if anyone has a slave he bought for money, when you have circumcised him, he may eat it. 45 Neither a traveler nor a hired servant may eat it. 46 It is to be eaten in one house. You are not to take any of the meat outside the house, and you are not to break any of its bones. 47 The whole community of Isra’el is to keep it. 48 If a foreigner staying with you wants to observe Adonai’s Pesach, all his males must be circumcised. Then he may take part and observe it; he will be like a citizen of the land. But no uncircumcised person is to eat it. 49 The same teaching is to apply equally to the citizen and to the foreigner living among you.”

50 All the people of Isra’el did just as Adonai had ordered Moshe and Aharon. 51 On that very day, Adonai brought the people of Isra’el out of the land of Egypt by their divisions.

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth

The meek also meaning humble, and earth as being land.

Psalm 37New International Version (NIV)
Psalm 37[a]
Of David.
1 Do not fret because of those who are evil
or be envious of those who do wrong;
2 for like the grass they will soon wither,
like green plants they will soon die away.

3 Trust in the Lord and do good;
dwell in the land and enjoy safe pasture.
4 Take delight in the Lord,
and he will give you the desires of your heart.

5 Commit your way to the Lord;
trust in him and he will do this:
6 He will make your righteous reward shine like the dawn,
your vindication like the noonday sun.

7 Be still before the Lord
and wait patiently for him;
do not fret when people succeed in their ways,
when they carry out their wicked schemes.

8 Refrain from anger and turn from wrath;
do not fret—it leads only to evil.
9 For those who are evil will be destroyed,
but those who hope in the Lord will inherit the land.

10 A little while, and the wicked will be no more;
though you look for them, they will not be found.
11 But the meek will inherit the land
and enjoy peace and prosperity.

12 The wicked plot against the righteous
and gnash their teeth at them;
13 but the Lord laughs at the wicked,
for he knows their day is coming.

14 The wicked draw the sword
and bend the bow
to bring down the poor and needy,
to slay those whose ways are upright.
15 But their swords will pierce their own hearts,
and their bows will be broken.

16 Better the little that the righteous have
than the wealth of many wicked;
17 for the power of the wicked will be broken,
but the Lord upholds the righteous.

18 The blameless spend their days under the Lord’s care,
and their inheritance will endure forever.
19 In times of disaster they will not wither;
in days of famine they will enjoy plenty.

20 But the wicked will perish:
Though the Lord’s enemies are like the flowers of the field,
they will be consumed, they will go up in smoke.

21 The wicked borrow and do not repay,
but the righteous give generously;
22 those the Lord blesses will inherit the land,
but those he curses will be destroyed.

23 The Lord makes firm the steps
of the one who delights in him;
24 though he may stumble, he will not fall,
for the Lord upholds him with his hand.

25 I was young and now I am old,
yet I have never seen the righteous forsaken
or their children begging bread.
26 They are always generous and lend freely;
their children will be a blessing.

27 Turn from evil and do good;
then you will dwell in the land forever.
28 For the Lord loves the just
and will not forsake his faithful ones.

Wrongdoers will be completely destroyed;
the offspring of the wicked will perish.
29 The righteous will inherit the land
and dwell in it forever.

30 The mouths of the righteous utter wisdom,
and their tongues speak what is just.
31 The law of their God is in their hearts;
their feet do not slip.

32 The wicked lie in wait for the righteous,
intent on putting them to death;
33 but the Lord will not leave them in the power of the wicked
or let them be condemned when brought to trial.

34 Hope in the Lord
and keep his way.
He will exalt you to inherit the land;
when the wicked are destroyed, you will see it.

35 I have seen a wicked and ruthless man
flourishing like a luxuriant native tree,
36 but he soon passed away and was no more;
though I looked for him, he could not be found.

37 Consider the blameless, observe the upright;
a future awaits those who seek peace.[d]
38 But all sinners will be destroyed;
there will be no future[e] for the wicked.

39 The salvation of the righteous comes from the Lord;
he is their stronghold in time of trouble.
40 The Lord helps them and delivers them;
he delivers them from the wicked and saves them,
because they take refuge in him.

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God

five wise with oil for their lamp
Do not be too quick in the laying on of hands and thereby share in the sins of others.
Keep yourself pure.
Stop drinking only water and use a little wine instead, because of your stomach and your frequent ailments.

 

[Andrew]

It's just a side issue to what you were posting about, but the Christmas tree does not have Druid origins. The Druids used different trees, and the Christians used evergreens in order to upstage and to educate the pagans about the nature of Christ who never dies. There's a similarity, but no more than a hundred other incidental similarities between Christian practice and worship and that of almost every other religion in the world.

He said something about Ishtar, I recall reading something on druids using the evergreen but he might not have said Druid. Its amazing how this date is used world wide even tho we are in different times zones and years, God gives us signs in the heavens for times and seasons and Jesus spoke of his coming kingdom being at hand in a similar manner using signs in a parable, why someone is solely based on facts ('dates' are blasphemous!) and not using 'understanding' is beyond me.

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[Andrew]

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth

The meek also meaning humble, and earth as being land.

Psalm 37New International Version (NIV)
Psalm 37[a]
Of David.
1 Do not fret because of those who are evil
or be envious of those who do wrong;
2 for like the grass they will soon wither,
like green plants they will soon die away.

3 Trust in the Lord and do good;
dwell in the land and enjoy safe pasture.
4 Take delight in the Lord,
and he will give you the desires of your heart.

5 Commit your way to the Lord;
trust in him and he will do this:
6 He will make your righteous reward shine like the dawn,
your vindication like the noonday sun.

7 Be still before the Lord
and wait patiently for him;
do not fret when people succeed in their ways,
when they carry out their wicked schemes.

8 Refrain from anger and turn from wrath;
do not fret—it leads only to evil.
9 For those who are evil will be destroyed,
but those who hope in the Lord will inherit the land.

10 A little while, and the wicked will be no more;
though you look for them, they will not be found.
11 But the meek will inherit the land
and enjoy peace and prosperity.

12 The wicked plot against the righteous
and gnash their teeth at them;
13 but the Lord laughs at the wicked,
for he knows their day is coming.

14 The wicked draw the sword
and bend the bow
to bring down the poor and needy,
to slay those whose ways are upright.
15 But their swords will pierce their own hearts,
and their bows will be broken.

16 Better the little that the righteous have
than the wealth of many wicked;
17 for the power of the wicked will be broken,
but the Lord upholds the righteous.

18 The blameless spend their days under the Lord’s care,
and their inheritance will endure forever.
19 In times of disaster they will not wither;
in days of famine they will enjoy plenty.

20 But the wicked will perish:
Though the Lord’s enemies are like the flowers of the field,
they will be consumed, they will go up in smoke.

21 The wicked borrow and do not repay,
but the righteous give generously;
22 those the Lord blesses will inherit the land,
but those he curses will be destroyed.

23 The Lord makes firm the steps
of the one who delights in him;
24 though he may stumble, he will not fall,
for the Lord upholds him with his hand.

25 I was young and now I am old,
yet I have never seen the righteous forsaken
or their children begging bread.
26 They are always generous and lend freely;
their children will be a blessing.

27 Turn from evil and do good;
then you will dwell in the land forever.
28 For the Lord loves the just
and will not forsake his faithful ones.

Wrongdoers will be completely destroyed;
the offspring of the wicked will perish.
29 The righteous will inherit the land
and dwell in it forever.

30 The mouths of the righteous utter wisdom,
and their tongues speak what is just.
31 The law of their God is in their hearts;
their feet do not slip.

32 The wicked lie in wait for the righteous,
intent on putting them to death;
33 but the Lord will not leave them in the power of the wicked
or let them be condemned when brought to trial.

34 Hope in the Lord
and keep his way.
He will exalt you to inherit the land;
when the wicked are destroyed, you will see it.

35 I have seen a wicked and ruthless man
flourishing like a luxuriant native tree,
36 but he soon passed away and was no more;
though I looked for him, he could not be found.

37 Consider the blameless, observe the upright;
a future awaits those who seek peace.[d]
38 But all sinners will be destroyed;
there will be no future[e] for the wicked.

39 The salvation of the righteous comes from the Lord;
he is their stronghold in time of trouble.
40 The Lord helps them and delivers them;
he delivers them from the wicked and saves them,
because they take refuge in him.

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God

five wise with oil for their lamp
Do not be too quick in the laying on of hands and thereby share in the sins of others.
Keep yourself pure.
Stop drinking only water and use a little wine instead, because of your stomach and your frequent ailments.

Are you trying to save us from Christmas?
Did you know that 'daily bread' was eaten daily? In those days a loaf of bread had to be baked on a daily basis. There are many Jewish festivals from the OT that Christ would have had to take part in.

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[Josiah]

If it a date wasnt so important, then ask why someone dared to mark a calendar day

None have ever stated on what DATE the Lord was born. Yes, like the Shepherds together.... and the Angels together.... and the Wise Men together CELEBRATED our Lord's BIRTH, so many Christians choose to CELEBRATE our Lord's birth together. On what day we together do that isn't the point for any of them, Christ is the point.

If you conclude that the Shepherds and Angels and Wise Men were wrong and condemnable for celebrating our Lord's Birth and/or sinful and wrong for wishing to do so TOGETHER - then, well, don't celebrate it or make a point to do so in a way that will be unique and individualistic and "out of step" with your brothers and sisters in Christ so that your protest and individualism becomes the point and not Christ, well.... no one is stopping you. But then that wouldn't stop the rest of us either.

 

[pinacled]

None have ever stated on what DATE the Lord was born. Yes, like the Shepherds together.... and the Angels together.... and the Wise Men together CELEBRATED our Lord's BIRTH, so many Christians choose to CELEBRATE our Lord's birth together. On what day we together do that isn't the point for any of them, Christ is the point.

If you conclude that the Shepherds and Angels and Wise Men were wrong and condemnable for celebrating our Lord's Birth and/or sinful and wrong for wishing to do so TOGETHER - then, well, don't celebrate it or make a point to do so in a way that will be unique and individualistic and "out of step" with your brothers and sisters in Christ so that your protest and individualism becomes the point and not Christ, well.... no one is stopping you. But then that wouldn't stop the rest of us either.

Listen to the Ruach Hakodesh as the wind abated the waters. Let the breath of Life course and renew your heart and mind.
I speak only of the Truth, and ask you to do the same.
Put aside all falseness. If you havent come up fully yet then remain still and patiently wait on the Lord to reveal the fullness in your own time.
Until then, be vigilant.

And ask about the seven shepherds and eight - - - - - - - - -