The holy supper of our Lord.

[MoreCoffee]

You can use words like nonsense if you like, if you don't agree.

But my passport photo is a representation of me. I can say 'This is me', and the meaning that the photo image represents me, is clear. Remember, so many Bible believers hold, and have held for centuries, that the Lord's Supper is a representational memorial. 'This do in remembrance of Me.' (1 Corinthians 11).

Yes indeed, your photo is a photograph of you - taken at a specific instant in time - and it is not you. The Lord Jesus Christ said "this is my body" and "this is my blood" I choose to believe him. He wasn't holding a photograph, and he didn't say "this symbolically represents my body".

 

[onlyme]

Yes indeed, your photo is a photograph of you - taken at a specific instant in time - and it is not you. The Lord Jesus Christ said "this is my body" and "this is my blood" I choose to believe him. He wasn't holding a photograph, and he didn't say "this symbolically represents my body".

My illustration was to show how the verb to be works.

 

[MoreCoffee]

My illustration was to show how the verb to be works.

Yes, you gave an example in colloquial English of how one might (rather inaccurately) say that one's photograph is one's self but Greek is not English and the usage in Greek may differ. Unfortunately one cannot cite an example from the new testament referring to a photograph so your example is not particularly applicable to the passages wherein the Lord says "this is my body" and because of that your example is somewhat irrelevant.

And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it; and he gave to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. And he took a cup, and gave thanks, and gave to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many unto remission of sins. But I say unto you, I shall not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. (Matthew 26:26-29 ASV-1901)

And as they were eating, he took bread, and when he had blessed, he brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take ye: this is my body. And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave to them: and they all drank of it. And he said unto them, This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. Verily I say unto you, I shall no more drink of the fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God. (Mark 14:22-25 ASV-1901)



And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and gave to them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. And the cup in like manner after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood, [even] that which is poured out for you. But behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. For the Son of man indeed goeth, as it hath been determined: but woe unto that man through whom he is betrayed! (Luke 22:19-22 ASV-1901)

The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a communion of the body of Christ?
(1 Corinthians 10:16 ASV-1901)

For I received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was betrayed took bread; and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, This is my body, which is for you: this do in remembrance of me. In like manner also the cup, after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do, as often as ye drink [it], in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink the cup, ye proclaim the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat the bread or drink the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. (1 Corinthians 11:23-27 ASV-1901)

 

[Josiah]

Yes, you gave an example in colloquial English of how one might (rather inaccurately) say that one's photograph is one's self but Greek is not English and the usage in Greek may differ. Unfortunately one cannot cite an example from the new testament referring to a photograph so your example is not particularly applicable to the passages wherein the Lord says "this is my body" and because of that your example is somewhat irrelevant.

And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it; and he gave to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. And he took a cup, and gave thanks, and gave to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many unto remission of sins. But I say unto you, I shall not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. (Matthew 26:26-29 ASV-1901)

And as they were eating, he took bread, and when he had blessed, he brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take ye: this is my body. And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave to them: and they all drank of it. And he said unto them, This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. Verily I say unto you, I shall no more drink of the fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God. (Mark 14:22-25 ASV-1901)



And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and gave to them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. And the cup in like manner after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood, [even] that which is poured out for you. But behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. For the Son of man indeed goeth, as it hath been determined: but woe unto that man through whom he is betrayed! (Luke 22:19-22 ASV-1901)

The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a communion of the body of Christ?
(1 Corinthians 10:16 ASV-1901)

For I received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was betrayed took bread; and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, This is my body, which is for you: this do in remembrance of me. In like manner also the cup, after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do, as often as ye drink [it], in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink the cup, ye proclaim the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat the bread or drink the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. (1 Corinthians 11:23-27 ASV-1901)

Thus, NOTHING to support the RCC's Eucharistic Dogma: Transubstantiation/Accidents.


The RCC simply did in the 16th Century what Zwingli did: insist that the words are to be ignored, evaded.... that "is" doesn't mean that, and that half of what follows the "is" well.... isn't. It's just that the modern RCC and Zwinglians don't agree on what word(s) Jesus and Paul SHOULD have used in lieu of, in stead of, in place of what they did.... and which half after the "is" isn't. Both.... insisting we don't accept the words.... destroy any reason to accept Real Presence: Zwinglians admit this, Catholics don't but it equally applies.



- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes, you gave an example in colloquial English of how one might (rather inaccurately) say that one's photograph is one's self but Greek is not English and the usage in Greek may differ. Unfortunately one cannot cite an example from the new testament referring to a photograph so your example is not particularly applicable to the passages wherein the Lord says "this is my body" and because of that your example is somewhat irrelevant.

And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it; and he gave to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. And he took a cup, and gave thanks, and gave to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many unto remission of sins. But I say unto you, I shall not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. (Matthew 26:26-29 ASV-1901)

And as they were eating, he took bread, and when he had blessed, he brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take ye: this is my body. And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave to them: and they all drank of it. And he said unto them, This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. Verily I say unto you, I shall no more drink of the fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God. (Mark 14:22-25 ASV-1901)



And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and gave to them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. And the cup in like manner after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood, [even] that which is poured out for you. But behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. For the Son of man indeed goeth, as it hath been determined: but woe unto that man through whom he is betrayed! (Luke 22:19-22 ASV-1901)

The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a communion of the body of Christ?
(1 Corinthians 10:16 ASV-1901)

For I received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was betrayed took bread; and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, This is my body, which is for you: this do in remembrance of me. In like manner also the cup, after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do, as often as ye drink [it], in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink the cup, ye proclaim the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat the bread or drink the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. (1 Corinthians 11:23-27 ASV-1901)

Thus ...

Thus the bread is Christ's body and the wine is his blood of the new testament. That's all one needs to affirm.

 

[Josiah]

That's all one needs to affirm.

For Lutherans... but not for Catholics. I can understand why you are evading the new, unique Eucharistic Dogma of your denomination ( Transubstantiation/Accidents), why you don't want it discussed, but that doesn't remove it as the Catholic position. However, if you personally denounce it or at least do not affirm it, distancing yourself from your denomination on this point, that's understandable but it would be helpful for you to clearly state us, at least for the sake of discussion.