the Holy Spirit our teacher

[NewCreation435]

Look at the rest of the passage. It is clearly directed to those specific disciples. Verse 16 cannot be applied to you or me or anyone other than those disciples Jesus is talking about.
I know that you and others want to make this passage about you and the Holy Spirit, but the context does not give you that right.

John 16:13-16

[13]When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future.

[14]He will bring me glory by telling you whatever he receives from me.

[15]All that belongs to the Father is mine; this is why I said, ‘The Spirit will tell you whatever he receives from me.’

[16]“In a little while you won’t see me anymore. But a little while after that, you will see me again.”

Yes, verse 16 shows that he was in a discussion with disciples who were present. It isn't a part of the same teaching though. Jesus clearly warned his disciples over and over again what was coming up in his crucifixion and his resurrection. It is mentioned numerous times in the scriptures that he tried to prepare them for what would happen even though they were slow to learn.
The same disciples were emboldened and brave after Pentecost when the Spirit came upon them and they were filled.

 

[user1234]

You are misunderstanding. The Spirit does not share new revelation to us today.
The Spirit, however, did give the Apostles new revelation, which is exactly what the text tells us.

Okay, yes, as I thought. The statement, 'The Spirit doesnt tell us about the future' I would disagree with. 'The Spirit doesnt share new revelation to us today' is a different statement, and I would agree. Certainly not in a corporate sense. ('Individually' is another topic to discuss another time I suppose)

 

[MennoSota]

Yes, verse 16 shows that he was in a discussion with disciples who were present. It isn't a part of the same teaching though. Jesus clearly warned his disciples over and over again what was coming up in his crucifixion and his resurrection. It is mentioned numerous times in the scriptures that he tried to prepare them for what would happen even though they were slow to learn.
The same disciples were emboldened and brave after Pentecost when the Spirit came upon them and they were filled.

In response to your second paragraph: Of course they were. What Jesus told them in John 16 was fulfilled in their lifetime.

I don't follow your first paragraph. What do you mean by "It isn't a part of the same teaching though."? Are you saying that Jesus entirely switches his train of thought in these four verses? If so, please explain your position.

 

[NewCreation435]

In response to your second paragraph: Of course they were. What Jesus told them in John 16 was fulfilled in their lifetime.

I don't follow your first paragraph. What do you mean by "It isn't a part of the same teaching though."? Are you saying that Jesus entirely switches his train of thought in these four verses? If so, please explain your position.

John 16:13-16

[13]When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future.

[14]He will bring me glory by telling you whatever he receives from me.

[15]All that belongs to the Father is mine; this is why I said, ‘The Spirit will tell you whatever he receives from me.’

[16]“In a little while you won’t see me anymore. But a little while after that, you will see me again.”

verse 16 is a transition statement. He was talking about the Holy Spirit and then he moved on to talk to them about his coming again. Being that this conversation most likely happened near the end of Jesus' earthly life this was very much on his mind

 

[MennoSota]

John 16:13-16

[13]When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future.

[14]He will bring me glory by telling you whatever he receives from me.

[15]All that belongs to the Father is mine; this is why I said, ‘The Spirit will tell you whatever he receives from me.’

[16]“In a little while you won’t see me anymore. But a little while after that, you will see me again.”

verse 16 is a transition statement. He was talking about the Holy Spirit and then he moved on to talk to them about his coming again. Being that this conversation most likely happened near the end of Jesus' earthly life this was very much on his mind

It doesn't change the fact that the "you" in this passage is the specific disciples, not you and me today.

 

[Imalive]

Does the Spirit tell us about the future?
No.
Thus the "you" cannot mean us today. It must mean the disciples that Jesus is addressing.

Yes. He warns believers. He doesn't give em some new Biblical revelation that goes against the revelation of John, but He can warn ppl for the future. Paul spoke to the ppl then and to us, otherwise why even give us a Bible if it was all only for them, and Paul spoke about prophecying, that's about the future.

 

[Imalive]

You are misunderstanding. The Spirit does not share new revelation to us today.
The Spirit, however, did give the Apostles new revelation, which is exactly what the text tells us.

Also, it can also mean He warns Greetje who wants to put her bike in the garden house that she has to watch out, cause a toad is sitting there.
This is a testimony a woman in church told decades ago. I will never forget it.

 

[NewCreation435]

It doesn't change the fact that the "you" in this passage is the specific disciples, not you and me today.

That's a very narrow interpretation which I doubt most believers would agree with. If I did what you propose whole sections of scripture would be irrelevant to me since he wasn't speaking directly to me, since it would be almost 2,000 years before I was born.
The Holy Spirit didn't just minister to the disciples in Jesus day. He ministers to me. I know because I have experienced it myself. He is called the Comforter and the Helper the parakletos and is in each of us and helps each of us. If you don't know what that means look it up. I think by having such a unnecessary narrow view of this passage you do it a disservice.

 

[MennoSota]

That's a very narrow interpretation which I doubt most believers would agree with. If I did what you propose whole sections of scripture would be irrelevant to me since he wasn't speaking directly to me, since it would be almost 2,000 years before I was born.
The Holy Spirit didn't just minister to the disciples in Jesus day. He ministers to me. I know because I have experienced it myself. He is called the Comforter and the Helper the parakletos and is in each of us and helps each of us. If you don't know what that means look it up. I think by having such a unnecessary narrow view of this passage you do it a disservice.

It doesn't matter how many people agree. It matters whether God agrees. When we interpret scripture we don't make up applications based upon how the passage makes us feel. We let the text say what it says and we adjust our opinion to what God says.
In this case the passage does not give us license to make up applications that are not there.

 

[Imalive]

That's a very narrow interpretation which I doubt most believers would agree with. If I did what you propose whole sections of scripture would be irrelevant to me since he wasn't speaking directly to me, since it would be almost 2,000 years before I was born.
The Holy Spirit didn't just minister to the disciples in Jesus day. He ministers to me. I know because I have experienced it myself. He is called the Comforter and the Helper the parakletos and is in each of us and helps each of us. If you don't know what that means look it up. I think by having such a unnecessary narrow view of this passage you do it a disservice.

That's what ppl do. If Jesus said you may not divorce or call your brother a fool, they say: He spoke that to the Jews. It's not for us.

 

[NewCreation435]

It doesn't change the fact that the "you" in this passage is the specific disciples, not you and me today.

I noticed today 1 John 2:20,27. IN particular verse 27 says "And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all thiings, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him."

This verse shows us as a part of the indwellin power of the Spirit that the Spirit also teaches us. That the Holy Spirit indwells is is clear from among other verses Romans 8:11. The word in the greek is oikeo which means to dwell in.
I know you might also suggest that because John was writing this to someone else and used the word "you" that it doesn't speak to us, but the truth that applies to the person he was writing to also applies to each believer.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I noticed today 1 John 2:20,27. IN particular verse 27 says "And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all thiings, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him."

This verse shows us as a part of the indwellin power of the Spirit that the Spirit also teaches us. That the Holy Spirit indwells is is clear from among other verses Romans 8:11. The word in the greek is oikeo which means to dwell in.
I know you might also suggest that because John was writing this to someone else and used the word "you" that it doesn't speak to us, but the truth that applies to the person he was writing to also applies to each believer.

The you in 1 John 2:20-27 is plural. The passage is addressed to the community. It is not a promise of individual guidance.

1 John 2:18-27 Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour. [19] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. [20] But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all have knowledge. [21] I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth. [22] Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. [23] No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. [24] Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. [25] And this is the promise that he made to us—eternal life. [26] I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. [27] But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.​

The bold red yous are plural in the above quote.

 

[MennoSota]

I noticed today 1 John 2:20,27. IN particular verse 27 says "And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all thiings, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him."

This verse shows us as a part of the indwellin power of the Spirit that the Spirit also teaches us. That the Holy Spirit indwells is is clear from among other verses Romans 8:11. The word in the greek is oikeo which means to dwell in.
I know you might also suggest that because John was writing this to someone else and used the word "you" that it doesn't speak to us, but the truth that applies to the person he was writing to also applies to each believer.

The "you" is the elect in 1 John, which would include those chosen today while directly corresponding to John's audience.
In John 16, the "you" is specific to Jesus disciples with whom he is speaking.
Context provides our answer.
Do you think 1 John 2:18-19 can be applied to the Roman Catholic Church?

 

[user1234]

I just noticed that the name of the thread is 'the Holy Spirit our teacher' .
And here we are teaching each other. :shake:
God's pretty cool, how He does stuff, and all.

It really is interesting looking at that whole discourse from John 14 thru16 and seeing what can ONLY apply to ppl that were there, physically present at the time, what applies to ALL believers, and what, perhaps, has a dual meaning/application. I'm not so scholarly to pretend to know definitively, I have some beliefs at this point, but way more to learn, and this thread is an inspiration toward that study, so thanks.
(Now, to find time. And diligence. :juggle

 

[NewCreation435]

I just noticed that the name of the thread is 'the Holy Spirit our teacher' .
And here we are teaching each other. :shake:
God's pretty cool, how He does stuff, and all.

It really is interesting looking at that whole discourse from John 14 thru16 and seeing what can ONLY apply to ppl that were there, physically present at the time, what applies to ALL believers, and what, perhaps, has a dual meaning/application. I'm not so scholarly to pretend to know definitively, I have some beliefs at this point, but way more to learn, and this thread is an inspiration toward that study, so thanks.
(Now, to find time. And diligence. :juggle

He is the one who spiritually appraises us because 1 Corinthians 2:14 says that the natural man does not accept the things of God and that they are foolishness to Him because he is not appraised. I believe this is why many unbelievers don't understand the word of God at all.

 

[user1234]

He is the one who spiritually appraises us because 1 Corinthians 2:14 says that the natural man does not accept the things of God and that they are foolishness to Him because he is not appraised. I believe this is why many unbelievers don't understand the word of God at all.

And thats why alot of times when I struggle, i get worried... (what if I dont have the Holy spirit? Why am I not getting this or that??)
Its like, Im saved now, I should understand everything now! Lol. (And the enemy whispers, maybe youre not saved, then?) It's amazing, the spiritual warfare that goes on right within the reading of God's Word.

 

[MennoSota]

He is the one who spiritually appraises us because 1 Corinthians 2:14 says that the natural man does not accept the things of God and that they are foolishness to Him because he is not appraised. I believe this is why many unbelievers don't understand the word of God at all.

Right.

A natural person can break down the semantics and grammar, but the message will be foolishness.
Here's my analogy:
Say all humans are born in a pitch dark cave. We see only the color black. That is the only possible color to see. There is no light.
God comes to me and provides a light that no one else can see. The light of God explodes the cavern with brilliant light, exposing the majestic colors of the cave and the intricacies of God's handiwork. I am in awe!
I go to all the others in the cave and excitedly tell them of the amazing colors I am seeing with the light, but they can't see it. All they see is black. No matter what I do, they can only see black.
Some get mad at me and call me a lunatic."There is no such thing!", they scream. I insist that I am telling the truth.
Some listen and as they hear, God gives them a light. They can see the beauty of it all. They are overjoyed and join me in the chorus.
Others discover I have a light from God, so they set about to make their own light. They work and build. They make something and then they declare they can see the beauty, but they can't. They are merely imitating what the hear and feel, but they can only see darkness.
God know whom he has given His light. He knows they can see. He is thrilled with their joy and encourages this group to keep sharing...no matter the response. God tells them that He will continue to give those in darkness the light...as He so chooses.
Those to whom He has given the light are filled with God's Spirit. Those who imitate and those who mock are natural men/women who only see black, no matter what they imagine. They are not capable of seeing the colors, which God has revealed to the elect.

 

[user1234]

Right.

A natural person can break down the semantics and grammar, but the message will be foolishness.
Here's my analogy:
Say all humans are born in a pitch dark cave. We see only the color black. That is the only possible color to see. There is no light.
God comes to me and provides a light that no one else can see. The light of God explodes the cavern with brilliant light, exposing the majestic colors of the cave and the intricacies of God's handiwork. I am in awe!
I go to all the others in the cave and excitedly tell them of the amazing colors I am seeing with the light, but they can't see it. All they see is black. No matter what I do, they can only see black.
Some get mad at me and call me a lunatic."There is no such thing!", they scream. I insist that I am telling the truth.
Some listen and as they hear, God gives them a light. They can see the beauty of it all. They are overjoyed and join me in the chorus.
Others discover I have a light from God, so they set about to make their own light. They work and build. They make something and then they declare they can see the beauty, but they can't. They are merely imitating what the hear and feel, but they can only see darkness.
God know whom he has given His light. He knows they can see. He is thrilled with their joy and encourages this group to keep sharing...no matter the response. God tells them that He will continue to give those in darkness the light...as He so chooses.
Those to whom He has given the light are filled with God's Spirit. Those who imitate and those who mock are natural men/women who only see black, no matter what they imagine. They are not capable of seeing the colors, which God has revealed to the elect.

I get what youre saying here, but ive also heard ppl describe experiences, etc., And in some ways Im happy for them, but I have to admit (just being honest here) that SOMEtimes those testimonials only served to depress me or stir a bit of jealousy and strife.(shame on me, I know)

i.e. Why did God give THAT person this wonderful vision/encounter/experience and Im feeling kind of left out, (sometimes even the songs we sing, I feel hypocritical...He walks w me, He talks w me, or His presence is sooo filling me w joy and love, etc., when Im not really feelin it so much) Do you know what I mean?

Ive had moments, I suppose, but mostly I guess I fall into the catagory of 'have not seen, but believe'. Alot of times I have to confess or admit, 'I believe, Lord, help, Thou, mine unbelief'.

 

[MennoSota]

I get what youre saying here, but ive also heard ppl describe experiences, etc., And in some ways Im happy for them, but I have to admit (just being honest here) that SOMEtimes those testimonials only served to depress me or stir a bit of jealousy and strife.(shame on me, I know)

i.e. Why did God give THAT person this wonderful vision/encounter/experience and Im feeling kind of left out, (sometimes even the songs we sing, I feel hypocritical...He walks w me, He talks w me, or His presence is sooo filling me w joy and love, etc., when Im not really feelin it so much) Do you know what I mean?

Ive had moments, I suppose, but mostly I guess I fall into the catagory of 'have not seen, but believe'. Alot of times I have to confess or admit, 'I believe, Lord, help, Thou, mine unbelief'.

The answer to why God graciously saves one sinner and not another sinner is...The King is Sovereign and He does what he does with no obligation to tell us why.
I like that. I like the fact that I cannot possibly boast in anything I imagine I have done that would cause God to react and go "Wow, that guys great." No I'm not. There are many on this site who heartily give an Amen to the fact that I am by nature a selfish, prideful, egotist who often values himself above his station. I am, by nature, a wretched person. And...so is every other person that has ever lived (other than God the Son, Yeshua).
Since we all deserve to be left to rot in our blindness and stench, it is therefore an AMAZING act of Grace that God would choose even one person to take out of darkness and provide light. Your being chosen by God is an incredible story of God's grace. You were once dead in your trespasses and sins. A filthy, rotten, worthless scoundrel of a wretch...and yet...yet...from all the other filthy rags...God chose YOU! "What wondrous love is this that caused the Lord of bliss, to bear the dreadful curse for my soul?"
You have an amazing story to tell. You were as rotten in the core as any that our world labels evil. The world may not have said you were corrupt, but God the judge saw you as filthy to the core...yet...yet He chose YOU! Shout that joy to the heavens brother! You have been Redeemed! It's just too amazing to keep quiet. Let your soul rise to the throne room of God with eternal praise and adoration to the one who has saved your poor wretched soul!