The Flood: Historical event or Fable?

[Albion]

So when Revelation says "I saw a new Heaven and new Earth" it is talking about only a part of the world?

For certain, he was seeing something he could not describe easily or did not choose to. In any case, what does this have to do with the flood?

If a mountain is swallowed by a flood it would make sense that every mountain that size would be submerged and not just half of the planet, especially if the flood lasted as long as the bible claims.

I thought for a moment there that you were going to tell me how something opened its mouth and gulped down an entire mountain. After all, the word there is "swallowed."

 

[Andrew]

For certain, he was seeing something he could not describe easily or did not choose to. In any case, what does this have to do with the flood?

I thought for a moment there that you were going to tell me how something opened its mouth and gulped down an entire mountain. After all, the word there is "swallowed."

Swallowed by the Earth is a phrase used a couple of times in the Bible. I guess swallowed by water doesn't make much sense lol you know what I meant, 15 cubits above the top of a mountain is a lot of water, I imagine this water covered the whole earth at such a hight and for as long as the bible claimed the flood lasted.
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[Albion]

Swallowed by the Earth is a phrase used a couple of times in the Bible. I guess swallowed by water doesn't make much sense lol you know what I meant, 15 cubits above the top of a mountain is a lot of water, I imagine this water covered the whole earth at such a hight and for as long as the bible claimed the flood lasted.
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I know what you meant, yes; but if you were to be consistent you would realize that the words of John in Revelation are in the same vein.

You read the contents in a super-literal fashion when studying a book in which John himself says that this is the way he saw things, not that this is exactly what they are. The whole book his report on a vision, just like when people ask us now what their dreams mean. The events in those dreams are never clear-cut, are they? No. That is why they ask for an INTERPRETATION of them, what they stand for, etc.

But then you use figurative language yourself in explaining your view, assuming, I believe, that the reader will know that your own words were not meant to be taken literally.

 

[Andrew]

I know what you meant, yes; but if you were to be consistent you would realize that the words of John in Revelation are in the same vein.

You read the contents in a super-literal fashion when studying a book in which John himself says that this is the way he saw things, not that this is exactly what it is...but then you use figurative language yourself in explaining your view, assuming, I believe, that the reader will know that your own words were not meant to be taken literally.

I know revelations is a vision, but I also know that the flood was universal and literally happened, it was Gods undoing of his creation and only 8 souls survived, I don't know what happened to all that water, the world is obviously no longer flooded, nor is half of it (oceans don't count! lol).
But to be sceptical, maybe in Noahs time there was only one continent, and it was flooded, maybe we are losing more water than we realize and exposing more land, where did this water go??? I suggested God put it in a big boot, everyone else dismisses the universal flood story all together.
Moses couldn't have parted the sea so he obviously never existed or he is making things up, God called forth waters to destroy the earth, probably from a canopy above the firmament or through the windows of heaven, but since we cannot find that water it most likely never happened, the Sun stood still, a donkey talked, people rose from the dead, God spoke things in to existence, get out of town! lol

 

[Albion]

I know revelations is a vision, but I also know that the flood was universal and literally happened....

Then there isn't much room for a discussion of the matter, is there?

 

[Andrew]

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[Andrew]

Then there isn't much room for a discussion of the matter, is there?

Here is a thought, if Moses split the sea that water must have risen right?
Im sure God could have risen all of the oceans to destroy the land.

 

[Albion]

Here is a thought, if Moses split the sea that water must have risen right?
Im sure God could have risen all of the oceans to destroy the land.

Oh, no one is denying that God could do that. The question is whether or not he did do it in the case of Noah.

 

[Andrew]

He could have lifted up the oceans and made it rain down over the land, killing everything as the bible said.
I better stop using miracles as my defense to prove bible miracles :/

 

[Andrew]

Oh, no one is denying that God could do that. The question is whether or not he did do it in the case of Noah.

God did bring the flood waters though, that's my point, it wasn't anything natural at all, it was 'supernatural' (for lack of a better word) something science can't touch and I respect that.

"And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die"
Genesis 6:17

 

[Albion]

I better stop using miracles as my defense to prove bible miracles :/

Correct. The fact that God worked a miracle to cause the Red Sea to part does not prove that a 65-1 longshot winning the Kentucky derby was thanks to a miracle.

 

[Albion]

God did bring the flood waters though, that's my point...

I believe your point was that the flood waters covered every inch of land on the planet.

I still don't see where parts of the earth were not covered and that some animals and people may have survived as Albion "would suppose so"....
I feel like I'm in the twilight zone, the world wide flood happened according to the bible.

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[Andrew]

I believe your point was that the flood waters covered every inch of land on the planet.

Same point, God brought waters to destroy all creatures, I imagine all land consisted some form of life that God wanted destroyed saving none accept those on the ark.
God made the animals go forth toward the ark, he could have had some donkeys fetch Noah and his family and they all could have stampeded and trampled over people to an area that the flood waters did not reach.

But he did it another way that we can't explain

 

[Andrew]

Correct. The fact that God worked a miracle to cause the Red Sea to part does not prove that a 65-1 longshot winning the Kentucky derby was thanks to a miracle.

I don't believe God cares about sports to be honest
He did however care about Noah enough to save him from the destruction of the godless world he lived in

 

[Albion]

I don't believe God cares about sports to be honest
He did however care about Noah enough to save him from the destruction of the godless world he lived in

I believe God cares about the entirety of his creation.

 

[Andrew]

I believe God cares about the entirety of his creation.

Of course, which is why he wanted it repopulated by Noah and his family and the animals on the ark. I'm sure glad Noah was a righteous man

 

[MennoSota]

Of course, which is why he wanted it repopulated by Noah and his family and the animals on the ark. I'm sure glad Noah was a righteous man

I'm reading a book by Nancy Guthrie regarding seeing Jesus in the Old Testament. This book just looks at Genesis. She notes that the Bible says Noah was given grace. That's what "found favor" means in Genesis 6:8. God graciously chose Noah. It is because of God's grace that Noah was righteous. In other words...Noah was a sinner like all of mankind, but God chose to be gracious to Noah while others were to receive God's justice.
So, instead of thinking Noah was some self-made righteous man, we learn that God extended unmerited favor (grace) and that made Noah righteous.

But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord. These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God.

Genesis 6:8-9

 

[Andrew]

I'm reading a book by Nancy Guthrie regarding seeing Jesus in the Old Testament. This book just looks at Genesis. She notes that the Bible says Noah was given grace. That's what "found favor" means in Genesis 6:8. God graciously chose Noah. It is because of God's grace that Noah was righteous. In other words...Noah was a sinner like all of mankind, but God chose to be gracious to Noah while others were to receive God's justice.
So, instead of thinking Noah was some self-made righteous man, we learn that God extended unmerited favor (grace) and that made Noah righteous.


Genesis 6:8-9

Makes sense, his name meant "Rest/Comfort", I can relate that to Grace

 

[Andrew]

I believe your point was that the flood waters covered every inch of land on the planet.



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I believe you took my words out of context, I was stating that I don't understand how anyone could assume that this was not a world wide flood.

 

[Albion]

What is the difference there?

...and how do the following statements of yours NOT have you saying that you believe the whole planet was flooded?

Same point, God brought waters to destroy all creatures, I imagine all land consisted some form of life that God wanted destroyed saving none accept those on the ark.

In regards to your version of "local", I define it as 'none universal', the flood wasn't scattered, it never mentions a scattered flood.

the bible says that every mountain was completely submerged, this was not a local flood, this was a universal and catastrophic event that God made happen due to his grief over all of his creation.

Also the world will be destroyed by fire, the world was destroyed by water... Will only a part of the world be destroyed by fire because only a part was destroyed by water?
If a mountain is swallowed by a flood it would make sense that every mountain that size would be submerged and not just half of the planet, especially if the flood lasted as long as the bible claims.

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