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Thankful for the Dead Sea Scrolls but what does their discovery truly mean as evidence ?

at the altar

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hello

As Christians can we believe the truth that the Hebrew manuscripts of the Old Testament are what God himself has preserved ?

as Jesus had explained to his Hebrew speaking people that neither a jot nor one tittle would pass away from the Law….

Jesus was never propagating a Greek Septuagint of the Old Testament, the Jot is a Hebrew letter, the Tittle is a small mark distinguishing Hebrew verbs. (third - person singular simple present… ect...

A Greek Septuagint would not have any jots nor any tittles
for Jesus to be vindicating.


What many people do not know is that 4 times the Roman Catholic Douay Rheims Translation deletes or removes the word Lord or Yahweh in the Old Testament and replaces it with the Greek word Christ

Here are the 4 times the word Christ is
inserted into the Old Testament
Lam 4:20 …… Christ the Lord, is taken in our sins...
2Sa 23:1 ….. Christ of the God of Jacob.
Psa 84:9 ….. look on the face of thy Christ.
Hab 3:13 ….. for salvation with thy Christ.

Again, the Roman Catholic Douay Rheims deletes or removes the word Anointed in the Old Testament and replaces it with the Greek word Christ

Here are the 4 other times the word Christ is inserted into the Old Testament

Psa 2:2 …..against the Lord, and against his Christ.
1Sa 2:10 ..... exalt the horn of his Christ
Dan 9:25 unto Christ, the prince
Dan 9:26 ….. Christ shall be slain


The Catholic Translation takes 8 select passages from the Old Testament that Catholics feel could be considered a prophetic future foretelling of Jesus and they remove the original words of " Lord " and " Anointing " and replace it with Christ

Catholics are correct and right -
to identify Christ - in the Old Testament - but this is not the way the Bible was transmitted in the original language – to take titles and names of the New Testament that were written in another language and make cuts and selected preferences of a few choice - personal doctrinal passages where these titles and names should be applied and where they would be left out –

Catholics have removed the original meaning and application in how the scripture was given, applied and
understood by the Jewish people and have inserted a future - event back inside the Old Testament, completely removing the way it was understood and what it means and says.

The original message of the Old Testament is written to keep hidden that Jesus the Son Of God would someday be manifested, the Old Testament Prophets and Saints of old knew absolutely nothing about the Son Of God nor of his future role in salvation.

Yes, he is mysteriously secretly concealed and hidden in the Old Testament

Col 1:26 Jesus Christ is a mystery which hath been hidden from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Rom 16:25 Jesus Christ is a mystery, which was kept secret since the world began.


Does changing the word Lord into the word Christ in the Catholic Old Testament discredit and remove the way its prophecy was written to be as hidden and as concealed, to insert the idea that the Jews had discovered the Lord himself was the Christ before his arival ?



IN CONCLUSION

I mention this because the claim is made that for hundreds of years before the birth of Jesus was born the Jews used a Greek Septuagint of the Old Testament and if this truth the Greek word Christos would have been truly used to indicate the Anointed


but the truth is the Catholic Church took the word Anointed that is used 80 + times in the Old Testament and translated this word into Christos / Christ only 4 random times in their English translation but the other 76 + times they translated it as the English word Anointed

because there were no known manuscripts claimed to be Greek Septuagint until 1947


Carbon dating ink is not 100 % precise, and direct radiocarbon dating of historical ink is rarely done because inks are mineral-based and lack enough carbon, while carbon dating ink and organic material can be off by a few centuries

In fact, some of the Dead Sea Scroll parchments are proven to have been written after Christ and even then, carbon dating is not exact - it provides a statistical range of centuries.

The truth is that the Dead Sea Scrolls contain many fragments, some, that were produced during the First Jewish-Roman War, and these fragments could have been produced decades or a full - century after Jesus Christ

- and the evidence that is provided of all BC material is not from carbon dating = THE MAIN EVIDENCE GIVEN IS THE HANDWRITING STYLES - - SOMEONE WITH A DIFFERENT STYLE OF HANDWRITING CAN BE PROOF OF CATALOG AS 100 % PROOF FOR DATING MANUSCRIPTS.

BUT - WHAT IF THE WRITER WAS ATTEMPTING TO COPY A HANDWRITING STYLE ?
THEN THE PROOF IS A FALSE EVIDENCE.

The Jews were not aware of the coming of Jesus in any way and were not trying to produce Greek scripture to coincide and batch up with the prophecy fulfilled in a New Testament changing the word Lord into the word Christ as Catholics have done in their translation .

These prophetic meanings were kept secret, hidden and concealed by God himself until Jesus revealed them, not revelation found in a Greek Septuagint hundreds of years before.

The Greek Septuagint is a theory built entirely upon assumption and imagination without a single factual proof for evidence and the Roman Catholic Church attempts to insert Christ and replace Lord into the Old Testament as if the Old Testament expressed something that was kept secret and hidden by God himself. - to suggest that even the jews had previous Septuagint knowledge of what God himself had hidden.
 

Lamb

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hello

As Christians can we believe the truth that the Hebrew manuscripts of the Old Testament are what God himself has preserved ?

as Jesus had explained to his Hebrew speaking people that neither a jot nor one tittle would pass away from the Law….

Jesus was never propagating a Greek Septuagint of the Old Testament, the Jot is a Hebrew letter, the Tittle is a small mark distinguishing Hebrew verbs. (third - person singular simple present… ect...

A Greek Septuagint would not have any jots nor any tittles
for Jesus to be vindicating.


What many people do not know is that
4 times the Roman Catholic Douay Rheims Translation deletes or removes the word Lord or Yahweh in the Old Testament and replaces it with the Greek word Christ

Here are the 4 times the word Christ is
inserted into the Old Testament
Lam 4:20 …… Christ the Lord, is taken in our sins...
2Sa 23:1 ….. Christ of the God of Jacob.
Psa 84:9 ….. look on the face of thy Christ.
Hab 3:13 ….. for salvation with thy Christ.

Again, the Roman Catholic Douay Rheims deletes or removes the word Anointed in the Old Testament and replaces it with the Greek word Christ

Here are the 4 other times the word Christ is inserted into the Old Testament

Psa 2:2 …..against the Lord, and against his Christ.
1Sa 2:10 ..... exalt the horn of his Christ
Dan 9:25 unto Christ, the prince
Dan 9:26 ….. Christ shall be slain


The Catholic Translation takes 8 select passages from the Old Testament that Catholics feel could be considered a prophetic future foretelling of Jesus and they remove the original words of " Lord " and " Anointing " and replace it with Christ

Catholics are correct and right -
to identify Christ - in the Old Testament - but this is not the way the Bible was transmitted in the original language – to take titles and names of the New Testament that were written in another language and make cuts and selected preferences of a few choice - personal doctrinal passages where these titles and names should be applied and where they would be left out –

Catholics have removed the original meaning and application in how the scripture was given, applied and
understood by the Jewish people and have inserted a future - event back inside the Old Testament, completely removing the way it was understood and what it means and says.

The original message of the Old Testament is written to keep hidden that Jesus the Son Of God would someday be manifested, the Old Testament Prophets and Saints of old knew absolutely nothing about the Son Of God nor of his future role in salvation.

Yes, he is mysteriously secretly concealed and hidden in the Old Testament

Col 1:26 Jesus Christ is a mystery which hath been hidden from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Rom 16:25 Jesus Christ is a mystery, which was kept secret since the world began.


Does changing the word Lord into the word Christ in the Catholic Old Testament discredit and remove the way its prophecy was written to be as hidden and as concealed, to insert the idea that the Jews had discovered the Lord himself was the Christ before his arival ?



IN CONCLUSION

I mention this because the claim is made that for hundreds of years before the birth of Jesus was born the Jews used a Greek Septuagint of the Old Testament and if this truth the Greek word Christos would have been truly used to indicate the Anointed


but the truth is the Catholic Church took the word Anointed that is used 80 + times in the Old Testament and translated this word into Christos / Christ only 4 random times in their English translation but the other 76 + times they translated it as the English word Anointed

because there were no known manuscripts claimed to be Greek Septuagint until 1947


Carbon dating ink is not 100 % precise, and direct radiocarbon dating of historical ink is rarely done because inks are mineral-based and lack enough carbon, while carbon dating ink and organic material can be off by a few centuries

In fact, some of the Dead Sea Scroll parchments are proven to have been written after Christ and even then, carbon dating is not exact - it provides a statistical range of centuries.

The truth is that the Dead Sea Scrolls contain many fragments, some, that were produced during the First Jewish-Roman War, and these fragments could have been produced decades or a full - century after Jesus Christ

- and the evidence that is provided of all BC material is not from carbon dating = THE MAIN EVIDENCE GIVEN IS THE HANDWRITING STYLES - - SOMEONE WITH A DIFFERENT STYLE OF HANDWRITING CAN BE PROOF OF CATALOG AS 100 % PROOF FOR DATING MANUSCRIPTS.

BUT - WHAT IF THE WRITER WAS ATTEMPTING TO COPY A HANDWRITING STYLE ?
THEN THE PROOF IS A FALSE EVIDENCE.

The Jews were not aware of the coming of Jesus in any way and were not trying to produce Greek scripture to coincide and batch up with the prophecy fulfilled in a New Testament changing the word Lord into the word Christ as Catholics have done in their translation .

These prophetic meanings were kept secret, hidden and concealed by God himself until Jesus revealed them, not revelation found in a Greek Septuagint hundreds of years before.

The Greek Septuagint is a theory built entirely upon assumption and imagination without a single factual proof for evidence and the Roman Catholic Church attempts to insert Christ and replace Lord into the Old Testament as if the Old Testament expressed something that was kept secret and hidden by God himself. - to suggest that even the jews had previous Septuagint knowledge of what God himself had hidden.

What do you mean the Jews were not aware of the coming of Jesus? They had been awaiting the promised Savior from the very beginning...since the fall.
 

jswauto

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Before 1947, the oldest complete Hebrew Bible was the Leningrad Codex (1008 CE).

The Scrolls changed everything.

They revealed hundreds of Hebrew manuscripts dating from the 3rd century BCE to the 1st century CE
 

at the altar

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that is truly amazing that we have Hebrew Scriptures of the Old Testament dating back to 1000 AD

I believe that these copies of ancient Hebrew manuscripts are the preserved word of God and truth. the sad part that breaks my heart is that only one biblical scroll from the Dead Sea Scroll material was found as a complete book -

—the Great Isaiah Scroll (1QIsaᵃ)—Isaiah is the only Book preserved in its entirety from beginning to end, believe to have been written as early as 125 AD and possibly even copied a few years after Jesus was born.

Carbon dating can be off by 200 years


the style of handwriting in how the author writes is the main method that experts use to date within a range of 200 years, the Dead Sea Scrolls could have possibly been written after Jesus was born.

As for the rest of the Old Testament in the Dead Sea Scrolls there are only tiny fragments or pieces of shards, thumb nail crumbs, tiny portions from every single book of the Hebrew (Old Testament) except for the Book of Esther,

all other biblical manuscripts survive only as fragments of partial texts, partial verses and as scattered book fragments.

Before 1000 AD there is not a full complete Old Testament Hebrew Bible nor a complete book of the Bible except for the Book Of Isaiah alone .



for the wonderful comment made by "
Lamb " i would agree as the Bible does make mention of a savior who will rise from the house of Israel, I was not trying to deny this this fact - all i was trying to do is - ask the question

my question was - is it truthful, right or good for the Roman Catholic Church to replace the word Hebrew word " Lord " with the Greek word " Christ " as they have done in their English translation.

removing original Hebrew words and altering them and changing them repeatedly, inserting and changing words into verses that were not revealed at that time and made completely clear in identifying the full plan of God in the original Old Testament ?
 

at the altar

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the main point is that 8 times the Roman Catholic Douay Rheims Translation deletes or removes the word Messiah in the Old Testament and replaces it with the Greek word Christ


Here are the 8 times the word Messiah is inserted into the Old Testament


Lam 4:20 …… Christ the Lord, is taken in our sins...
2Sa 23:1 ….. Christ of the God of Jacob.
Psa 84:9 ….. look on the face of thy Christ.
Hab 3:13 ….. for salvation with thy Christ.
Psa 2:2 …..against the Lord, and against his Christ.
1Sa 2:10 ..... exalt the horn of his Christ
Dan 9:25 unto Christ, the prince
Dan 9:26 ….. Christ shall be slain


8 select passages from the Old Testament that Catholics feel could be considered a prophetic future foretelling of Jesus and they remove the original word Messiah



The word Messiah is used 110 times in the Old Testament manuscripts but translated into Christos / Christ only 8 random times in the Catholic English translation, the other 102 times they translated it as the English words Anointed or Messiah

The Greek Septuagint however always translates the Hebrew word Messiah into Greek using the word Christ -
 
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