Suffering Vs Health & Wealth in Christian faith.

MoreCoffee

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Suffering Vs Health & Wealth in Christian faith.

At the council of Council of Quiercy in 853 AD these words were written:
There is not, never has been, and never will be a single human being for whom Christ did not suffer.
The fathers of the council were following the teaching of Christ in the words we have received from the holy scriptures:
Matthew 18:13-14 [13] And if he should happen to find it: Amen I say to you, that he has more joy over that one, than over the ninety-nine which did not go astray. [14] Even so, it is not the will before your Father, who is in heaven, that one of these little ones should be lost.

Matthew 20:27-28 [27] And whoever will want to be first among you, he shall be your servant, [28] even as the Son of man has not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a redemption for many."

Romans 5:18-19 [18] Therefore, just as through the offence of one, all men fell under condemnation, so also through the justice of one, all men fall under justification unto life. [19] For, just as through the disobedience of one man, many were established as sinners, so also through the obedience of one man, many shall be established as just.​
Yet there is a sense in which the body of Christ (Christians) suffer one for another. There is the obvious sense seen when a minister of the gospel - one who in his/her work of evangelism - suffers martyrdom or physical beatings because of their teaching work. And there is the less obvious sense in which a minister of the gospel - any Christian - suffers for the example and sake of others. Both kinds of suffering ought to be offered to Christ in union with his own suffering for the benefit of the body and for the benefit of the whole world.

The cross is the unique sacrifice of Christ, the "one mediator between God and men" [SUP]1Tim 2:5[/SUP]. But because in his incarnate divine person he has in some way united himself to every man, "the possibility of being made partners, in a way known to God, in the paschal mystery" is offered to all men. He calls his disciples to "take up [their] cross and follow (him)",[SUP]Matt 16:24[/SUP] for "Christ also suffered for (us), leaving (us) an example so that (we) should follow in his steps." [SUP]1Pet 2:21[/SUP]. In fact Jesus desires to associate with his redeeming sacrifice those who were to be its first beneficiaries.[SUP]Mark 10:39; ⇒ John 21:18-19; ⇒ Col 1:24[/SUP]This is achieved supremely in the case of his mother, who was associated more intimately than any other person in the mystery of his redemptive suffering.[SUP]Luke 2:35[/SUP] Apart from the cross there is no other ladder by which we may get to heaven. (source § 618)

These observations - drawn from the holy scriptures - point to Christian suffering as part of Christian redemption rather than as something contrary to it. Yet some believe and teach that suffering is unnecessary, undesirable, and for a Christian, completely out of accord with the purposes of God. Health, wealth, prosperity, are the promises of some teachers. This ought not to be.
 

Josiah

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I mostly agree with that, Coffee
 

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God wants me to be wealthy and go on a luxurous holiday and spend hundreds of euros.
Then the next months I hope I can eat LOL.
We used to have a stupid commercial of a girl who bought a nice dress for herself and then she said: borrow.nl.
I remember those Canadians with the Toronto blessing. All those Dutch people went there. One guy asked me: are those Dutch people so rich or something?
Neh we have borrow.nl
I borrowed 300 for 2 weeks. That costs me 65 euro. Oh well. Money must roll. Good for the economy.
 

visionary

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Money should be neither here or there in the mind of the believer. Our faith is to look up from which all things come. If it is what it is, praise God. If it isn't what you would like, praise God. From Him all blessings flow.
 

Rens

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Money should be neither here or there in the mind of the believer. Our faith is to look up from which all things come. If it is what it is, praise God. If it isn't what you would like, praise God. From Him all blessings flow.

Neither here or there in your mind? That only works if you have enough. Somehow you have to make it work. When I was married and we had a double income my ex would just tell me if I could buy something or not. Handy! He arranged the finances.
You can believe all you want, but sometimes it's handier to just use your brain.
 

Rens

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Faith works, but I can't just go spending and expect money to drop out of heaven. A guy in our church was homeless. He got a house really cheap. He had a 36000 euro debt. We prayed, he called the instance he had to pay the money to. It was just vanished, he only had a 360 euro debt left. Another guy too. He had a 19000 euro debt and here they put you in prison if you can't pay. One day before he had to go to prison they called him. They couldn't find anything. The debt was just gone.
 

psalms 91

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I love it wish it would do that here
 

visionary

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Neither here or there in your mind? That only works if you have enough. Somehow you have to make it work. When I was married and we had a double income my ex would just tell me if I could buy something or not. Handy! He arranged the finances.
You can believe all you want, but sometimes it's handier to just use your brain.

Stepping into the this attitude regarding money is by faith. But looking towards God for all your needs, should be your standard regardless of whether you have money in your pocket or not. Understanding that it is from God that all blessings flow is priceless. It changes your whole focus when it comes to the "how" in finances. Because it does depend on God, we need to depend on Him more. My mother use to say that "poor/rich is only a state of mind". It is what we do with life that matters, not what we have before we do it. We have to take life on faith. Our faith should be all about Him and to His glory we live.
 

visionary

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Neither here or there in your mind? That only works if you have enough. Somehow you have to make it work. When I was married and we had a double income my ex would just tell me if I could buy something or not. Handy! He arranged the finances.
You can believe all you want, but sometimes it's handier to just use your brain.
Who said that living faith is not using your brain?
 

psalms 91

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Faith is not already having it but rather believing God will supply it. God loves faith and it takes no faith to lean on our own understanding rather than Gods provision
 

Rens

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Who said that living faith is not using your brain?
Some do. Health and wealth teaching has gone too far. That's just nonsense, even Hagin himself warned against it and it always only works for the ones that get the tithes, but if you don't use your faith to just get what you want yourself the principles are Biblical and it just works, although Paul also had times of poverty.
 

Rens

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lol nm
 
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MoreCoffee

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Neither here or there in your mind? That only works if you have enough. Somehow you have to make it work. When I was married and we had a double income my ex would just tell me if I could buy something or not. Handy! He arranged the finances.
You can believe all you want, but sometimes it's handier to just use your brain.

My mother always said " poor is a state of mind". And she is right. How many have won the lottery to only be broke in a heart beat? They spend it like a poor man, and not a rich man. A rich man invests and does not spend. There is a difference. You make money work for you. How many training programs for real estate have you seen where "with no money down"? It is because you have to have a mind set that says, it is not the money, it is the deal you make with forth thought of what you are going to do within the shortest period of time to flip it and make money that counts. So money is not issue, it is the state of mind.

When my mother said "poor is a state of mind" she was explaining the difference between my father's approach to business and hers. His was of the negative sort where everyone is against you, there is no way it can be done, we will always be broke, etc etc etc... Mom didn't believe any of that and she made money because she believed it could be done, and that was back in the day when women were to be just housewives and not out in the business world especially in the male dominant business world where there were few business women in that particular business, and especially in that generation. Because of her attitude, she raised seven children to be successful in business including all of her daughters.

When you get into the faith field of money, God is in control. God inspires, teaches, leads, pushes, makes circumstances happen, so open your eyes, and see what the Lord will do for the apple of His eye. You are the apple of His eye. He wants you to know and trust Him, that He will feed you like the birds of the field, take care of your every need, not in the ways you demand, but in ways that enlarge your borders of understanding, experience, spiritual growth, faith, and relationship with Him. Those things are more important to Him than any penny of the financial system.

For those of you who lack faith in Him to cover you, protect you, feed you, and guide you, what are you going to do when the time comes to take the mark of the beast if you want to continue to buy and sell in this world we live in?
 
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MoreCoffee

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Since suffering is difficult Christians rightly seek to minimise it in the world and for themselves yet because suffering is also redemptive it c=ought not be considered a defeat or the result of a fault in the one who suffers. Thus even though some acts of wickedness bring with them a kind of retribution - for example, unjustified violent actions bring about criminal charges and penalties - the suffering engendered by these acts is not specifically redemptive except perhaps as a lesson that may rehabilitate. Suffering that is not the result of just punishment for wickedness may be redemptive not only for the one who suffers but also for others and what such suffering happens within the body of Christ the redemptive efficacy of it is greatly magnified for all who are willing to join themselves to Christ and to the suffering ones for the sake of the Kingdom of God.

Christians can anticipate health and wealth in Christ in the resurrection. In this world health is a blessing, wealth can be a blessing too but the promise of Christ is not the in this world his disciples will be both healthy and wealthy [SUP]Mark 10:29-31[/SUP]. The Lord promised a reward for the faithful but in this life one is called to carry one's cross [SUP]Mark 8:34-38[/SUP].
 
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