Still Struggling

[Albion]

Yes my pastor did say that but he also said that I couldn’t teach there because of my views, which isn’t a problem since I don’t want to teach. BUT since he said I couldn’t teach there that gave me the impression that my views are a real biggie.

That's interesting, all right. And something of a "red flag" in view of what you were told earlier when you contacted him to ask if believing in theistic evolution would prevent you from switching to his congregation.

I know that there are pastors who are liberal when it comes to WHO may attend and even join, but that doesn't mean that the pastor considers their BELIEFS to be acceptable.

The point there is that such people are thought to need to be in the pews on Sunday in order to hear the truth preached to them in hopes that they will then change their views.

 

[Faith]

That's interesting, all right. And something of a "red flag" in view of what you were told earlier when you contacted him to ask if believing in theistic evolution would prevent you from switching to his congregation.

I know that there are pastors who are liberal when it comes to WHO may attend and even join, but that doesn't mean that the pastor considers their BELIEFS to be acceptable.

The point there is that such people are thought to need to be in the pews on Sunday in order to hear the truth preached to them in hopes that they will then change their views.

so then what exactly are you saying? I shouldn’t go there after all?

 

[Faith]

Josiah, your opinion please? Ive previously mentioned that they wouldn’t let me teach (if I wanted to, which I don’t) but in light of that information, is it a red flag to you, too?

 

[tango]

That's interesting, all right. And something of a "red flag" in view of what you were told earlier when you contacted him to ask if believing in theistic evolution would prevent you from switching to his congregation.

I know that there are pastors who are liberal when it comes to WHO may attend and even join, but that doesn't mean that the pastor considers their BELIEFS to be acceptable.

The point there is that such people are thought to need to be in the pews on Sunday in order to hear the truth preached to them in hopes that they will then change their views.

That's an interesting take on it, I hadn't particularly considered that possibility.

It's possible that the pastor is, as you say, hoping a new person will change their beliefs. It's possible the pastor doesn't consider it to be a core issue so genuinely doesn't mind either way. It's also possible the pastor would just rather have more "bums on seats" than get too worried about what's in the heads attached to those bums.

 

[Lamb]

Yes my pastor did say that but he also said that I couldn’t teach there because of my views, which isn’t a problem since I don’t want to teach. BUT since he said I couldn’t teach there that gave me the impression that my views are a real biggie.

I have to say this...you've taken things here and ignored them and not really fully understood what we've said, so is there some possibility you misunderstood the pastor? Or the pastor misunderstood you? Perhaps he was being cautious because it seemed that you were more interested in sharing your views with people on evolution than you were on the risen Christ? It really seems on this site that you feel that evolution is more important than what Christian theology is truly about.

 

[Faith]

I have to say this...you've taken things here and ignored them and not really fully understood what we've said, so is there some possibility you misunderstood the pastor? Or the pastor misunderstood you? Perhaps he was being cautious because it seemed that you were more interested in sharing your views with people on evolution than you were on the risen Christ? It really seems on this site that you feel that evolution is more important than what Christian theology is truly about.

I don’t think there was any misunderstanding on either of our parts but I will email him and ask again why I wouldn’t be allowed to teach, if I‘d want to.

 

[Faith]

Perhaps he was being cautious because it seemed that you were more interested in sharing your views with people on evolution than you were on the risen Christ? It really seems on this site that you feel that evolution is more important than what Christian theology is truly about.

Perhaps. But that would be just a guess on his part. Anyway, I emailed him and am waiting for his reply.

 

[Faith]

Ok, I already heard back from him and Lamb, you’re correct. It was a misunderstanding. He said I could teach on a million different topics, just that I or anyone could not teach on Creation because it’s contrary to the church body and he wouldn’t ask me or anyone to teach something that’s contrary to our beliefs.

That’s not what he originally said, though. But he was speaking in context of our conversation and I misunderstood him to mean I couldn’t teach anything at all.

So, back to my OP is it stupid to attend a church that believes in creationism when I’m a theistic evolutionist? Because like I said earlier, since teaching this goes against the church, it seems like a biggie to me.

 

[Albion]

so then what exactly are you saying? I shouldn’t go there after all?

No, I'm not saying that.

This latest news verifies your feeling that there is something of an issue with this doctrine. I thought that was worth noting. But still, what we're dealing with is not an essential doctrine, and you aren't interested in teaching anyway.

In addition, you don't really have an alternate choice of denomination since you also have some important disagreements with the only other one under consideration--more important disagreements, in fact, than this one with the LCMS.

As we know, there are hardly any congregants/parishioners in any church who are 100% in step with every last theological stance taken by the church they belong to, so while I admire your desire to be honest about your beliefs and not to compromise them unnecessarily, I do agree with the Lutherans here who have said to you that this particular issue is not one that should keep you from joining. If it were some other doctrine, maybe, but not this one.

 

[Faith]

No, I'm not saying that.

This latest news verifies your feeling that there is something of an issue with this doctrine. I thought that was worth noting. But still, what we're dealing with is not an essential doctrine, and you aren't interested in teaching anyway.

In addition, you don't really have an alternate choice of denomination since you also have some important disagreements with the only other one under consideration--more important disagreements, in fact, than this one with the LCMS.

As we know, there are hardly any congregants/parishioners in any church who are 100% in step with every last theological stance taken by the church they belong to, so while I admire your desire to be honest about your beliefs and not to compromise them unnecessarily, I do agree with the Lutherans here who have said to you that this particular issue is not one that should keep you from joining. If it were some other doctrine, maybe, but not this one.

Good. Thanks!

 

[Lamb]

Ok, I already heard back from him and Lamb, you’re correct. It was a misunderstanding. He said I could teach on a million different topics, just that I or anyone could not teach on Creation because it’s contrary to the church body and he wouldn’t ask me or anyone to teach something that’s contrary to our beliefs.

That’s not what he originally said, though. But he was speaking in context of our conversation and I misunderstood him to mean I couldn’t teach anything at all.

So, back to my OP is it stupid to attend a church that believes in creationism when I’m a theistic evolutionist? Because like I said earlier, since teaching this goes against the church, it seems like a biggie to me.

How does your belief on evolution affect your belief in the Savior?

I'll keep on pointing you back to the Savior each and every time, if you notice. You're stuck on something that's of little importance.

 

[Faith]

How does your belief on evolution affect your belief in the Savior?

I'll keep on pointing you back to the Savior each and every time, if you notice. You're stuck on something that's of little importance.

I guess it doesn’t. Unless….never mind.

 

[Faith]

How does your belief on evolution affect your belief in the Savior?

I'll keep on pointing you back to the Savior each and every time, if you notice. You're stuck on something that's of little importance.

Ok

 

[tango]

Ok, I already heard back from him and Lamb, you’re correct. It was a misunderstanding. He said I could teach on a million different topics, just that I or anyone could not teach on Creation because it’s contrary to the church body and he wouldn’t ask me or anyone to teach something that’s contrary to our beliefs.

That sounds like a reasonable stance to take. Much like our pastor asking me not to teach things that contradict church beliefs.

That’s not what he originally said, though. But he was speaking in context of our conversation and I misunderstood him to mean I couldn’t teach anything at all.

So, back to my OP is it stupid to attend a church that believes in creationism when I’m a theistic evolutionist? Because like I said earlier, since teaching this goes against the church, it seems like a biggie to me.

That's really something only you can decide. How big a deal is theistic evolution to you? If you feel it's a big enough issue that you couldn't attend a church that doesn't believe in it then you'll need to find another church. If it's something that you can agree to disagree then there's no reason not to attend this church.

The chances of finding a church that believe exactly the same as you do is probably slim. It's a question of making sure the most important elements line up, and it's really up to you which specific things are showstoppers for you. There are several things about my church that I'd prefer were different to some extent or another but they aren't big enough issues to spur me to leave and find a different church.

 

[Faith]

That sounds like a reasonable stance to take. Much like our pastor asking me not to teach things that contradict church beliefs.



That's really something only you can decide. How big a deal is theistic evolution to you? If you feel it's a big enough issue that you couldn't attend a church that doesn't believe in it then you'll need to find another church. If it's something that you can agree to disagree then there's no reason not to attend this church.

The chances of finding a church that believe exactly the same as you do is probably slim. It's a question of making sure the most important elements line up, and it's really up to you which specific things are showstoppers for you. There are several things about my church that I'd prefer were different to some extent or another but they aren't big enough issues to spur me to leave and find a different church.

I’m learning that no church will be perfect.

 

[tango]

I’m learning that no church will be perfect.

I really like the saying that you'll never find a church that is perfect and if you ever do you shouldn't attend it because you'll spoil it.

 

[Faith]

Thanks for your reply, Faith.

Okay then, you disagree with a variety of Catholic teachings in addition to the one that bothers you about the Lutherans, and you are aware of what all of these are. Birth control, saint veneration, yes, and probably also Papal Infallibility and Purgatory (although those are ones I selected as examples) are distinctly Catholic and are not easily accepted by you.

That being the case...and the fact of there being only two churches (RC and LCMS) that you are considering, I cannot imagine how you'd feel as ambivalent as you still seem to be.

It's been said before by me, other members, AND your local LCMS pastor (!), that there is nothing preventing you from becoming a member of the LCMS in good conscience, AND on top of that you've found that your recent return visits to the Catholic Church for Mass left you feeling uncomfortable with that liturgy. Being at ease with your own conscience is important, I agree, but what more information could you possibly gather in order for you to feel ready to make the choice??

So, I really feel that there is no reason to go on like this. You don't have to formally join the Lutheran church right away, which should ease your conscience; but continuing on as you are, caught between two choices like this, is surely not in your best interests, either emotionally or spiritually.

I’m already a member of the LCMS and have been for awhile. Apparently I’m still a member of a nearby Catholic church too. I called and notified them that I was leaving and they’re still sending me offering envelopes and the “buzz book”with my information still in it.

 

[Faith]

I also told you it's not a requirement. And it's honestly not as big a deal as the other parts of theology as you're making it out to be. What you believe about Jesus, forgiveness, baptism and Holy Communion is far more important.

I also told you it's not a requirement. And it's honestly not as big a deal as the other parts of theology as you're making it out to be. What you believe about Jesus, forgiveness, baptism and Holy Communion is far more importany.

I think I agree more with the Lutheran belief in Communion than I believe in the Catholic belief. That in Lutherism Jesus body and blood are in, with and under the Host and wine, more than the Host changes totally into just the body and blood of Jesus.

 

[Faith]

That sounds like a reasonable stance to take. Much like our pastor asking me not to teach things that contradict church beliefs.



That's really something only you can decide. How big a deal is theistic evolution to you? If you feel it's a big enough issue that you couldn't attend a church that doesn't believe in it then you'll need to find another church. If it's something that you can agree to disagree then there's no reason not to attend this church.

The chances of finding a church that believe exactly the same as you do is probably slim. It's a question of making sure the most important elements line up, and it's really up to you which specific things are showstoppers for you. There are several things about my church that I'd prefer were different to some extent or another but they aren't big enough issues to spur me to leave and find a different church.

It was a big deal to me but not so much now after this thread and talking to my hubby about it.