Sinners Prayer in the Bible?

[Imalive]

Huh?

Lamm said the baptists forced her to say the sinner's prayer. That's not what it's meant for.

 

[Lamb]

Lamm said the baptists forced her to say the sinner's prayer. That's not what it's meant for.

In the Midwest of the US that's how it's done. They go door to door and out on the streets telling people that they're going to hell unless they pray the Sinner's prayer with them right then and there! Then they harass those who try to walk away.

 

[Imalive]

In the Midwest of the US that's how it's done. They go door to door and out on the streets telling people that they're going to hell unless they pray the Sinner's prayer with them right then and there! Then they harass those who try to walk away.

Wow

 

[Albion]

l have been interested to know if the mocking claims that are often made against the use of the Sinners Prayer are justified, that's all. What's the norm and...who says?

As for the dangerous issue, no, I never got to that concern because we all never got past the initial question.

 

[Albion]

Lamm said the baptists forced her to say the sinner's prayer. That's not what it's meant for.

and push Lutherans through their throat referred to...what?

 

[Josiah]

l have been interested to know if the mocking claims that are often made against the use of the Sinners Prayer are justified, that's all. What's the norm and...who says?

As for the dangerous issue, no, I never got to that concern because we all never got past the initial question.

Here's Lamm's experience,

In the Midwest of the US that's how it's done. They go door to door and out on the streets telling people that they're going to hell unless they pray the Sinner's prayer with them right then and there! Then they harass those who try to walk away.

Friend,

In THAT case, do you think there's some bad theology at work? Do you have any "issues" with this "BUT FIRST YOU GOTTA" theology, this rather bold Pelegianism? Do you think the use of the prayer in that case is dangerous?


?

 

[Albion]

Are you referring to this:

No, I was referring to this:

The argument, in semi-pelagian circles, is over what those other ingredients must be. For some it's repentance. For others it's the sinners prayer. For others it's the continual receiving of the eucharist. In each case, however, there is a stew needed with Jesus as the one core ingredient needed to seal the deal.

 

[Albion]

Josiah, what is the point in either putting a stamp of approval on or, OTOH, denouncing some practice that might be as rare as hens teeth and an embarrassment to the people who belong to churches that use the Sinners Prayer in the proper way (if that were to be defined)?

 

[Imalive]

and push Lutherans through their throat referred to...what?

Lamm is a Lutheran. Force her to say it. That's insane.
Oh it's shove btw.

 

[Albion]

I see. You meant those alleged Baptists forcing Lutherans like her to say the prayer under the conditions described. OK, I get you now. However, FWIW, I never have witnessed or heard of such a thing so I'm wondering if one congregation of Baptists in her history got carried away with some evangelistic crusade. If so, that would not settle the issue of using the Sinners Prayer in another way. Not for me. As a result, I am stuck thinking its a kind of goofy way to evangelize, but it not basically improper to suggest a prayer, not any more than when a Catholic priest leads his congregation in the reciting of parts of the Mass. Sure, we can find examples of pastors who mess everything up, turn it on its head, whatever it is, but I cannot decide the issue on the basis of a story about one guy or church here or there, etc.

 

[Josiah]

I see. You meant those alleged Baptists forcing Lutherans like her to say the prayer under the conditions described. OK, I get you now.

You asked for how we've witnessed the prayer being USED. I gave you one.... Lamm gave you several.... others did, too.

No one (including you, it seems) claims to have any conclusive, authoritative scientific data on this. And you didn't ask for any, just what we've witnessed. Lamm said nothing about Lutherans being forced to do anything.... I didn't say anything about Lutherans being forced (I was Catholic when I heard the Baptist state what he did, BTW).

As I stated, I doubt that anyone here is going to present any conclusive, scientific data on this. Nor did you ask for any. If YOUR experience is that this prayer is never used in any semi-Pelegian way, in any "BUT you gotta...." way - great! But you ask for other people's experience.

And I asked if you regarded it as "dangerous" if used the way Lamm and I and others indicate they've experienced it being used. So far, you've not responded (and you certainly need not).



- Josiah

 

[Imalive]

You asked for how we've witnessed the prayer being USED. I gave you one.... Lamm gave you several.... others did, too.

No one (including you, it seems) claims to have any authoritative scientific data on this. And you didn't ask for any, just what we've witnessed. Lamm said nothing about Lutherans being forced to do anything.... I didn't say anything about Lutherans being forced (I was Catholic when I heard the Baptist state what he did, BTW).

As I stated, I doubt that anyone here is going to present any conclusive, scientific data on this. Nor did you ask for any. If YOUR experience is that this prayer is never used in any semi-Pelegian way, in any "BUT you gotta...." way - great! But you ask for other people's experience.

And I asked if you regarded it as "dangerous" if used the way Lamm and I and others indicate they've experienced it being used. So far, you've not responded (and you certainly need not).



- Josiah

I think it's dangerous yes. I was in an evangelical cult for 1 year and they didn't even believe you could get reborn, but every week he'd preach that if you had sinned that week you had to say it again. So I said it every week.
Now later it turned out that one guy there was just living in gross sin and didn't want to repent, so he just kept repeating that for that guy who didn't care. You make ppl doubt if you do that.
Thanks to that guys preaching (I was just saved for a year) after a while I wanted nothing to do w God or church anymore. Luckily my mom then took me to a normal church.

 

[Albion]

It looks like the use of the Sinners Prayer is not easily settled, given that we are gradually hearing of more and more ways people have witnessed it being employed.

 

[Albion]

You asked for how we've witnessed the prayer being USED. I gave you one.... Lamm gave you several.... others did, too.

Yes. So that means that we have three..or five..or a couple more examples, and they are not all identical anyway. Against that there probably are ten thousand churches in which the Sinners Prayer is being used, plus revivals, etc.

Which one is THE way the Sinners Prayer is used? I will decide if it is theologically correct or dangerous after we know what we are talking about exactly.

No one (including you, it seems) claims to have any conclusive, authoritative scientific data on this.

That's right. Then how is anyone here expected to pass judgment on it, one way or the other? But that has been the expectation built into most of the posts in this thread.

And you didn't ask for any, just what we've witnessed.

That's not accurate. I several times asked anyone who might know what the normal use of the Sinners Prayer is.

 

[MennoSota]

No, I was referring to this:

That's not a question. You said you stated a question earlier, which you wanted me to answer. I'm not sure what your question is.

 

[MennoSota]

I see. You meant those alleged Baptists forcing Lutherans like her to say the prayer under the conditions described. OK, I get you now. However, FWIW, I never have witnessed or heard of such a thing so I'm wondering if one congregation of Baptists in her history got carried away with some evangelistic crusade. If so, that would not settle the issue of using the Sinners Prayer in another way. Not for me. As a result, I am stuck thinking its a kind of goofy way to evangelize, but it not basically improper to suggest a prayer, not any more than when a Catholic priest leads his congregation in the reciting of parts of the Mass. Sure, we can find examples of pastors who mess everything up, turn it on its head, whatever it is, but I cannot decide the issue on the basis of a story about one guy or church here or there, etc.

The spectrum under the title "Baptist" runs from free-will to particular and anything in-between. It's not unlike Roman Cathilocism in that way. There are a few core beliefs, but the variation is great. This is true for many of the major denominations including Lutheran.

 

[Josiah]

Yes. So that means that we have three..or five..or a couple more examples, and they are not all identical anyway. Against that there probably are ten thousand churches in which the Sinners Prayer is being used, plus revivals, etc.

You asked for our experiences..... several gave them to you.... you more than dismissed them.

Where is the evidence, where are the folks posting for the "ten thousand churches" where the sinner's prayer is not - in any way, intentional or otherwise - associated with semi-Pelegianism? If you are suggesting these "ten thousand churches" exists, where is your evidence? You SEEM to have some extremely limited personal experience (which it appears differs from most here), and that's fine, but that hardly substantiates anything concerning your claim about "ten thousand churches" where this prayer is in no way used synergisticly or indicating semi Pelegianism.

Which one is THE way the Sinners Prayer is used?

Do you have definitive, conclusive, scientific data on that? Can you substantiate that it's ONLY used in ONE way? Where is your evidence about these "the thousand churches?"


If some here aren't lying..... if they are faithfully answering your question about how THEY have seen it used.... do you see a problem with that? Do you see a danger?

I several times asked anyone who might know what the normal use of the Sinners Prayer is.

Once again, my friend, I doubt anyone here - INCLUDING YOU - can submit conclusive, authoritative scientific data on that. Certainly none - INCLUDING YOU - has. If you want such, you've probably come to the wrong place. We can speak of our experiences (all of which you have wholly dismissed).

Given the experiences of those here who have shared such..... assuming none is outright lying..... do you see a problem? Do you see a danger? It MAY be a misuse, it MAY even be unusual (you nor I have any data to indicate such, one way or the other), do you see a problem?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26FQCAiOhxA




.

 

[Albion]

I asked for the answer from anyone who might have it, not just isolated examples that prove nothing about the use of the Sinners Prayer itself. The question was out there for anyone who had any information. As you noted, we now have three or four stories of people using some version of the Sinners Prayer and none of them are the same. SOoooooo, with all that in hand, what do YOU think about the Sinners Prayer--good or not good?

All I have observed is evangelists preaching repentance and when people make confessions of sorrow for their sins and commit to changed lives now that they have accepted Christ as Lord and Savior, they are invited to pray this prayer that attests to all of that. Much more can probably be said about this approach but I cannot condemn it on this basis. It isn't the way our churches do things, but I do not find that the prayer in itself, and as Ive described its use, is contrary to any Biblical principle. What you and Lamm and others may have reported seeing, would of course be another matter and would have to be evaluated on their own merits.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The sinner's prayer used to be included on the last page of a tract called "Four things God wants you to know"

 

[Lamb]

The sinner's prayer used to be included on the last page of a tract called "Four things God wants you to know"

I'm looking online at that tract and nowhere do I find the word "forgive". It's a shame some Christians are afraid to tell others about Jesus' forgiveness.