Sinners Prayer in the Bible?

[MoreCoffee]

Yep. This. It seems to have come about as a result of the tent revivals of the Great Awakenings in the US early in its history. Others follow more ancient traditions.

For adults seeking baptism we ask some questions and there is an exorcism too. Nothing like a sinner's prayer though.

 

[Imalive]

Where does the Bible say you must repent and you must generate your own faith to be saved?
My affiliation is not Lutheran, but I do respect the Missouri synod.

Repent is in what Peter said in Acts 2.
You cant generate your own faith. The Bible doesnt say that anywhere. Faith comes by hearing the Word of Christ.

 

[Imalive]

For adults seeking baptism we ask some questions and there is an exorcism too. Nothing like a sinner's prayer though.

Really? You do exorcism? I thought only Thorben did that.
Well if you ask questions I think you ask do you believe Jesus is God whatever so thats like the same thing. You confess.

 

[MennoSota]

Repent is in what Peter said in Acts 2.
You cant generate your own faith. The Bible doesnt say that anywhere. Faith comes by hearing the Word of Christ.

We were dead in our trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1). No dead person can hear. But...God made us alive... (Ephesians 2:4-5).
You said it correctly. Faith comes by hearing. God must give us ears to hear. We cannot hear until God makes us alive.
When Jesus called Lazarus from the tomb, did he bring Lazarus to life and then call him out or did a stone cold dead man hear first? Ephesians 2 makes it very clear:

1) We were dead
2) God made us alive
3) God gives the gift of grace
4) God gives the gift of faith
5) He does the saving so that you and I cannot boast about our having chosen God.

Repentance is an after effect of God's gracious gift of faith.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The people of the nations (excluding Israel) had faith in their gods even though their gods were not gods and mostly did not exist except as works of art. That implies that faith can exist without being given by the Holy Spirit.

 

[MennoSota]

The people of the nations (excluding Israel) had faith in their gods even though their gods were not gods and mostly did not exist except as works of art. That implies that faith can exist without being given by the Holy Spirit.

People can believe anything they want. The outcome of judgment for sin remains the same.

Do you disagree with Ephesians 1 and 2, which says God chooses to save us and give us the gift of faith?

 

[MoreCoffee]

People can believe anything they want. The outcome of judgment for sin remains the same.

Do you disagree with Ephesians 1 and 2, which says God chooses to save us and give us the gift of faith?

I agree with Ephesians (all of the chapters in it) but that doesn't mean I agree with your interpretations of statements Ephesians

 

[MennoSota]

I agree with Ephesians (all of the chapters in it) but that doesn't mean I agree with your interpretations of statements Ephesians

How do you interpret the verses I posted from Ephesians 1 and 2? Did I change what God said and blaspheme God?

 

[MoreCoffee]

How do you interpret the verses I posted from Ephesians 1 and 2? Did I change what God said and blaspheme God?

I do not know what your intentions were so I cannot say if you blasphemed. What do you think you did?

 

[MennoSota]

I do not know what your intentions were so I cannot say if you blasphemed. What do you think you did?

You are avoiding interpreting Ephesians 1 and 2. This is not a game of "what do you feel."

Please precisely share your interpretation.

 

[Albion]

The people of the nations (excluding Israel) had faith in their gods even though their gods were not gods and mostly did not exist except as works of art. That implies that faith can exist without being given by the Holy Spirit.

No, that's to use the word faith in the ordinary sense, meaning to trust in something or other. For example, 'I have faith that it will rain tomorrow.'

What we need to do here is keep that separate from the BIBLICAL sense of the word.

 

[MoreCoffee]

In Greek - the language of the new testament - there is pistis and it covers belief & faith and has no implied "trust" definition. So the idea that "faith" for pagans is fundamentally unlike "faith" for Christians is an artifact of the huge vocabulary of the English language where "belief" and "faith" and "trust" all have shades of meaning that are not really present in the Greek text of the new testament. Basically what pagans believe and what Christians believe are both described with the same word(s) in the new testament. English speakers may fancy some subtle differences exist but they do so without clear justification from what is written in the holy scriptures.

 

[Albion]

The differences are defined by the way the word is used.

 

[Imalive]

We were dead in our trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1). No dead person can hear. But...God made us alive... (Ephesians 2:4-5).
You said it correctly. Faith comes by hearing. God must give us ears to hear. We cannot hear until God makes us alive.
When Jesus called Lazarus from the tomb, did he bring Lazarus to life and then call him out or did a stone cold dead man hear first? Ephesians 2 makes it very clear:

1) We were dead
2) God made us alive
3) God gives the gift of grace
4) God gives the gift of faith
5) He does the saving so that you and I cannot boast about our having chosen God.

Repentance is an after effect of God's gracious gift of faith.

Yes, they heard the Word and they were convicted in their heart by the Holy Spirit to convert.

 

[Imalive]

The people of the nations (excluding Israel) had faith in their gods even though their gods were not gods and mostly did not exist except as works of art. That implies that faith can exist without being given by the Holy Spirit.

I believed God existed cause I asked for signs. But I wasn't saved. Saving faith I got when I heard the Word and that Jesus died for my sins and that I had to repent of sin and ask Him to forgive me.

 

[MennoSota]

I believed God existed cause I asked for signs. But I wasn't saved. Saving faith I got when I heard the Word and that Jesus died for my sins and that I had to repent of sin and ask Him to forgive me.

Can you see that you didn't have to repent of sin and ask forgiveness before God saved you?

Because God saved you, the Spirit of God brought you to repentance and seeking forgiveness.

1 John 1:9 is written to those who are already saved, not to those who have never been reconciled to God through Jesus.
1 John 1:9 says "If we confess our sins, he (God) is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."
It's talking about the sanctification of Christians, not the salvation of unreconciled sinners.

 

[Imalive]

Can you see that you didn't have to repent of sin and ask forgiveness before God saved you?

Because God saved you, the Spirit of God brought you to repentance and seeking forgiveness.

1 John 1:9 is written to those who are already saved, not to those who have never been reconciled to God through Jesus.
1 John 1:9 says "If we confess our sins, he (God) is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."
It's talking about the sanctification of Christians, not the salvation of unreconciled sinners.

No I cant see that. I see He did it all but before I prayed the prayer I was just blind. I didnt get it. I didnt feel particularly guilty or a rotten sinner. I just did what they told me to do. I had never heard the gospel. Then I asked for signs. Then I went to a church and I had no idea what they were talking about. After a few months it dawned on me I had to pray the sinners prayer and then immediately after that I noticed I didnt hate all those ppl anymore. I could hug those girls I fervently hated and gossipped about.

 

[psalms 91]

Yup, Romans 10:9-10 tells us that

 

[Josiah]

I have nothing against the "Sinner's Prayer" per se ..... only if the person praying it thinks that thereby they've achieved justification.

... when there's even a hint that "because I did x,y or z, therefore I'm saved", that's when the big yellow (or maybe red) flags appear....

Protestants believe that Jesus is the Savior. That means that Jesus does the saving. That means that Jesus is the ONE and only and all-sufficient Savior. When there's even a HINT of "but, YOU gotta....." then Jesus isn't the Savior, is He? Jesus may be the possibility-maker, He may be the Helper, but the reason one is saved is because of what THEY did.... not the Cross but they jumping through whatever "hoop(s)". That makes me very uncomfortable.... The central, foundational, "keystone" point of Christianity.... the point on which it stands or falls, is this: Who is the Savior? If it's Jesus, then it's not you or me. If it's you or me, then it's not Jesus. IMO, it's not rocket science. Either one looks to the Cross or in the Mirror, IMO the difference is whether one is a Christian or.....

Now, it does seem that the Holy Spirit works mysteriously in us.... and I don't doubt He performs DIVINE miracles in us in this matter, but they are His miracles TO us, not hoop(s) we jump through. OR they are things that belong to our sanctification - what CHRISTIANS are called to do because they are Christians.

I think we need to be careful in how we view things (or maybe just word things). Remember: there are only two entirely different options here: The Cross or the Mirror, Jesus' works or my works, Jesus saves or self does. Attempts to combine the two - while at times sounding pious - simply destroys Jesus as the Savior (the ONE who does the SAVING) and renders him a fairly impotent helper or possibility-maker. We need to ALWAYS lift high the Cross... give Christ ALL the glory and credit.... proclaim JESUS as THE Savior. People might say, "I got saved." Right! Jesus did it to/for you - HIS miracle, HIS gift, HIS work, HIS going. But sometimes what gets conveyed (perhaps unintentionally!) is "I did x,y and z and therefore I'm saved." No. Salvation is not a reward for our adequately jumping through hoops (rendering Jesus an irrelevant joke) - that's the view of all non-Christian religions. Salvation is a divine miracle performed by Jesus via His life, death and resurrection.


Pax CHRISTI


- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

Really? You do exorcism? I thought only Thorben did that.
Well if you ask questions I think you ask do you believe Jesus is God whatever so thats like the same thing. You confess.

Yep, we exorcise folk when they are ready for adult baptism.