Retired Episcopalian Bishop...

[Lamb]

http://www.wakingtimes.com/2016/05/12/retired-bishop-reveals-why-the-church-invented-hell/

Retired Episcopal bishop John Shelby Spong, however, doesn’t seem to believe in the myth of Hell, and during a nationally televised interview he shared his opinions on why he thinks convincing the flock to believe in the concept of ‘Hell’ is absolutely critical to the Church’s survival.

And if you have Heaven as a place where you’re rewarded for your goodness, and Hell is a place where you’re punished for your evil, then you sort of have control of the population.

The article is about the bishop not believing in hell and thinking that the church created it, but that's not what shocked me. The 2nd quote I posted above is what I find shocking, that he believes you get to heaven by being good. Not one word of Jesus the Savior who died for our sins. :boggled:

 

[psalms 91]

Wow, and this is a man of faith? I think not sounds more like a politician laying out a plan to control thepopulation

 

[tango]

http://www.wakingtimes.com/2016/05/12/retired-bishop-reveals-why-the-church-invented-hell/





The article is about the bishop not believing in hell and thinking that the church created it, but that's not what shocked me. The 2nd quote I posted above is what I find shocking, that he believes you get to heaven by being good. Not one word of Jesus the Savior who died for our sins. :boggled:

I didn't read the full article but it certainly seems that if you want to control people you need rewards and punishments, and the greater the reward and the nastier the punishment the more control you can exert over people who believe what you tell them.

It does lose some of its potency when applied to churches who still teach heaven and hell but don't take theological exception to people who decide to worship elsewhere. If getting to heaven is conditional on following what my church teaches and going to hell is the punishment for any variation (however minor) from the behavior that my church demands, you've got a recipe for domination. If getting to heaven and going to hell are decided based on some other theological condition that has nothing to do with attendance at my particular church you've got less capacity for control.

It's still remarkable that, from your quotes at least, it appears that Jesus is nothing to do with whether or not we go to heaven.

 

[Nes]

idiot

 

[Josiah]

Some years ago, I came to know a young man who was extremely active in his Episcopal parish - but VERY frustrated with MUCH of what the Episcopal Church in the USA (and to a lesser degree, many in the Anglican Communion) were doing and saying. HIS parish was solid but the denomination and the entirely Anglican community were going off the deep end, in his passionate view.

He shared that until quite recently, the Anglican Church was very conservative. In fact, what he shared made me come to respect that heritage greatly! It was always a bit more "inclusive" but the "nuts" were at the fringes and widely denounced. But at some point (I don't know when), liberalism took hold. MANY left but he hung in there - as did the parish he belonged to - trying to ride it out and steer things back into the fold. Eventually, however, his was one of those Episcopal parishes that left. There was a HUGE legal flight over the property (which they eventually lost) so that the members had to leave the property (they rented space in an industrial park) and the denomination ended up selling the property (and keeping the money).

Of course, we have a similar situation in American Lutheranism. The LCA had a similar history.... and when it merged with the ALC in 1988, it dragged that down with it. Many stayed in the (now) ELCA as it went down liberalism' decline, TRYING to ride it out and steer things back. But many now are giving up, leaving the ELCA (many for the LCMC, but very rarely for the LCMS). For former LCA parishes, the same legal fights happen (the denomination owns those properties) but it's easier for former ALC parishes (the denomination does NOT own those). Sadly... many good denominations have jumped off the cliff.



My half cent.



- Josiah

 

[visionary]

It is invasive to see the "god is dead" lie pass through the main stay churches during the 60's. The "Jesus Freaks" declared He is alive. So in comes the revival by His spirit, only to be set aside for the politics of the nations which dictates what is acceptable, and thus slowly the bible was removed from the schools, the prayers were removed, the insidious creeping of secular was brought in, with concerts, modern music, casual clothing, and watered down messages to a simple believe "Jesus saves". Grace theology at its finest hour opened the doors for all to be accepted, and now we have pastors in all colors of the rainbows marrying the rainbow people as if God will bless them all. I am sure that somewhere through all these storms that the retired episcopalian bishop went through, he lost what ever grip he had on the truth. I am sure that I didn't even begin to hit on all the bombardments that society, culture, politics, and sin played on this man's faith.. but we see the end result... he didn't go back to his first love.