Regeneration

[atpollard]

You posted that God elects those who obey and love him.

So before God does ANYTHING (before He even decides to eventually do something), that unbeliever must "obey and love" Jesus.

Okay. Then there MUST be non-Christians who obey and love Jesus, otherwise there would be no one for God to elect and thus save.

So, I asked that you give the names of 3 such non-Christians who "obey and love Jesus", just 3 who would be candidates according for you for God to consider giving faith to.

Can't? Hum.

Then there are two options: There is no one on the planet known to you whom God could even consider doing ANYTHING for. Or your theology is wrong. I wonder which?






Because this thread is about regeneration, about how those without spiritual life, without faith, without the Holy Spirit are "born again NOT by the will of the human but rather by the will of God." It's about NON-Christians becoming Christian, the arrival of faith/life/the Holy Spirit in their life, so that they are no longer dead but alive (the meaning of regeneration).






so you argue one must obey Him and by doing so, you are saved. Thus salvation is the direct result of YOU obeying (there goes the Gospel, there goes Christianity, there is the soteriology of Judaism, Islam and some forms of Hinduism). But let's examine that. Let's look at what God tells you to do. Now, tell me you OBEY Him (and thus He rewards you with salvation, although you have nothing to be saved from since you do it all)

There you go, trusting in that Greek pagan logic rather than just accepting the mystery of the word of God ... like you frequently tell others. :ewink:

 

[YourTruthGod]

Read this... Quick trying to evade and "turn the tables" (it's disallowed in debate)

I am doing no such thing.

The issue is your claim that you "obey God" and that's why were are saved. YOU claimed it, YOU posted it (not me).

I just want to address the first part, the REASON you gave for your being saved, your claim to obedience. I just listed 6 commands (off the top of my head - there are over 1000 more in Scripture) and asked a very simple and direct question: Do you obey (as you not only claim but state and why you are saved; it's all conditional on your obeying).

Let's see if you obey God.... I just picked just 5 commands (5 out of over 1,000). Do you obey them or not? Simple yes or no.

Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." So you obey, you are as perfect as the Father in Heaven?

1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy." So you obey and you are as holy as God is?

John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you." So you love all people just as much as Christ does, as He loved on the Cross?

Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you." So you forgive all people?

First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did." So you live exactly as Jesus did? You are completely Christ-like in all the aspects of your life?

Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did." So your attitude is exactly the same as Jesus." We can prove that by every one of your posts?


I believe these Scriptures. The question is this: You DO obey them as you claim?

First, be accurate and don't add things and say I said something.

Quote me exactly what I said.

Then, if you prove that you do, if THAT is why you were saved (although I can't image for what; those that obey need no mercy or forgiveness or salvation).

Those who obey by repenting of their sins are the ones who find mercy.

Do you obey these, as you claim, or not? Did you obey these when you were a non-Christian? It's pretty much a "yes" or "no" question. You said it was "simple" but you have yet to answer it. I wonder why....

.

Read and quote what I said and then we can talk about it. You can't just make up things about others.

 

[atpollard]

There are people every day searching for God. Show from the scriptures that I am supposed to name people or am I wrong.

“there is no one who seeks God.” [Rom 3:11 NIV]
“All have turned away” [Rom 3:12 NIV]
“Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.” [Jhn 3:19-20 NIV]
“For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.” [Rom 1:21 NIV] ... “They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.” [Rom 1:25 NIV]

People search for “a god”, but they flee from the True God.

Yours is false. Give me the scripture or stop with your nonsense.

Eph 2:1-10

What a mess.

“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-- children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.” [Jhn 1:12-13 NIV]

“not of natural descent” = no one is saved because they share the DNA of Abraham, Isaac or Jacob.
“nor of human decision” = no one is saved because they decided to be saved.
“or a husband's will” = no one is saved because of what some other person did or decided.
“but born of God” = God and God alone is responsible for who becomes one of his children.
If you have a complaint, you will need to take it to the Apostle John that wrote it and the Holy Spirit that inspired him what to write.
Neither Joshua nor I are responsible for the content of the Bible.

God says to believe and obey.

"If you love me, obey my commandments.” [Jhn 14:15 NLT] ... God tells those that love him to obey.
“But you don't believe me because you are not my sheep.” [Jhn 10:26 NLT] ... those that do not already belong to Jesus do not believe.
“my Father has given them to me” [Jhn 10:29 NLT] ... “no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me” [Jhn 6:44 NLT] ... the Father decides who belongs to Jesus.
“For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him.” [Phl 2:13 NLT] ... God at work in those the Father has given to the Son.

Why don't you do that?

“For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.” [Eph 2:10 NIV] ... we do, once we are IN CHRIST and can.

Why do you preach against it?

Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." [Mat 22:37-40 NIV]

After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are." [Act 15:7-11 NIV]

Why do you try to place a yoke of law ... salvation by works ... on the necks of people?
Why do you deny that it is God who purifies hearts that hear His word and make salvation about the obedience of men?
Why do you strip the “grace” from the work of our Lord and make his gift something we earn for OUR choice to believe and OUR strength to obey?

“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that (“that” = ‘saved by grace through faith’) not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God;” [Eph 2:8 NASB]

 

[YourTruthGod]

“there is no one who seeks God.” [Rom 3:11 NIV]
“All have turned away” [Rom 3:12 NIV]

That scripture proves you wrong, for if they turned away, then what did they turn from if not one who sought God.

“Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.” [Jhn 3:19-20 NIV]

Finish the rest of the scripture that says BUT THOSE WHO COME TO THE LIGHT.

I have explained all these to you before and you act like I haven't.

“For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.” [Rom 1:21 NIV] ... “They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.” [Rom 1:25 NIV]

People search for “a god”, but they flee from the True God.

“not of natural descent” = no one is saved because they share the DNA of Abraham, Isaac or Jacob.
“nor of human decision” = no one is saved because they decided to be saved.
“or a husband's will” = no one is saved because of what some other person did or decided.
“but born of God” = God and God alone is responsible for who becomes one of his children.
If you have a complaint, you will need to take it to the Apostle John that wrote it and the Holy Spirit that inspired him what to write.
Neither Joshua nor I are responsible for the content of the Bible.

No one is born of God UNTIL they repent and believe.

"If you love me, obey my commandments.” [Jhn 14:15 NLT] ... God tells those that love him to obey.
“But you don't believe me because you are not my sheep.” [Jhn 10:26 NLT] ... those that do not already belong to Jesus do not believe.
“my Father has given them to me” [Jhn 10:29 NLT] ... “no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me” [Jhn 6:44 NLT] ... the Father decides who belongs to Jesus.
“For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him.” [Phl 2:13 NLT] ... God at work in those the Father has given to the Son.

Read those scriptures more carefully, for we don't even receive the Holy Spirit until we have faith and repent.

“For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.” [Eph 2:10 NIV] ... we do, once we are IN CHRIST and can.

We have to obey to get saved, and to stay saved.

Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." [Mat 22:37-40 NIV]

After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are." [Act 15:7-11 NIV]

Why do you try to place a yolk of law ... salvation by works ... on the necks of people?
Why do you deny that it is God who purifies hearts that hear His word and make salvation about the obedience of men?
Why do you strip the “grace” from the work of our Lord and make his gift something we earn for OUR choice to believe and OUR strength to obey?

“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that (“that” = ‘saved by grace through faith’) not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God;” [Eph 2:8 NASB]

A yoke is a term for work to be done.

JESUS SAYS he has a yoke for us, and it is light, easy, and not burdensome.

 

[atpollard]

I have explained all these to you before and you act like I haven't.

Yes, indeed. I present scripture and you respond ‘ex cathedra’ that I am wrong. It does seem like a familiar pattern.

So just for the record, when Paul states in Romans that “No one seeks God” and you refute scripture by pointing to the next verse and ‘explaining’ that they ‘turned away from seeking God’ so the claim that “no one seeks God” is refuted ... Does this mean that we need to remove only the false scripture known as Paul’s letter to the Romans, or do we need to discard all the writings by the false Apostle Paul?

You have clearly refuted his teaching beyond any ability to doubt its lack of inspiration.

 

[Josiah]

"But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved." Ephesians 2:4-5