Reasonable truth and simple understanding

Arsenios

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Her name is "my beloved" and the comfort one received from her - by being a part of her - is that the Lord calls you my beloved.
"Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away;
for lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone.
The flowers appear on the earth, the time of singing has come, and the voice of the turtledove is heard in our land.
The fig tree puts forth its figs, and the vines are in blossom; they give forth fragrance. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.
O my dove, in the clefts of the rock, in the covert of the cliff, let me see your face, let me hear your voice, for your voice is sweet, and your face is comely."​


Poetry embedded in music is perhaps the most accessible way to convey the Kingdom of Heaven on earth... I read this and listened to the old guy singing a version of it with his guitar, and I was taken outdoors to the Liturgy of the Robins each morning just outside our doors... I love the robins...

A mother is always a mother, yet her role is the rearing of her children...
And the role of the children is to grow up and marry and have children...
To grow up in the Body of Christ is to enter into the Marriage of the Lamb...

Regarding St. John the Theologian, Beloved of God, Hierotheos writes:

"These were not ideological, speculative or social sermons [his epistles], but sermons that were supremely theological and empirical: an announcement of eternal life. One preaches what one knows by the grace of God from experience. We also see that the aim of preaching and the pastoral ministry in geneeral is that people should come into communion with the God-seeing saints, and through them with the Triune God. This shows what the Church is. It is not simplya social, philanthropic and religious [might I add educational?] organization, but the place where one acquires communion with the Triune God and the saints. This is the purpose of ecclesiastical life."

I would add that the quest for God is a quest for reality...
Most are lost in the thorns and in the thin dry soil of our fallen existence...
Overcoming these is discipled in the Body of our Lord...

What a great response to an edgy post...

Arsenios
 
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Arsenios

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From Post #2 (Josiah):


From Post #3 (Arsenios):


Unmasking and resisting obsession is indeed a worthwhile undertaking – one worthy of praise.

Unless that undertaking itself becomes obsessive.

==============================================================================================

What if someone – someone who was pointing out that the undertaking to expose and resist obsession had itself become obsessive – in turn became obsessed with that (his or her) exercise?

Where could it all end?

OK - You win, OK?

Yes, it is true...

I am still working on rational obsession...

I am not quite there yet, OK?

That Magnificent Obsession...

The Obsession of the God-Seeing Saints...

Man's Obsession with God...

There is a converse with every dysfunctional fallen abberation, where a trait initially created is perfectly appropriate, where we short circuit it into our fallen material world, where the Image of God in which we were created gets twisted into inappropriate useage, and Divine Virtues become perverted into carnal and worldly vices... The conversion of these vices back into virtues is an important feature of the Way of Salvation... We call it the collection of the nous... Or more generically, the gathering of the dispersed... Carnally it is known as focus, common to professional sports and military combat...

God Bless You my Brother...

Arsenios
 

Arsenios

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In Christ we have One Mother.
And she is not catholic

Christ had one Mother...
And for us who are in Him...
She is OUR Mother too...


Arsenios
 

MoreCoffee

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OK - You win, OK?

Yes, it is true...

I am still working on rational obsession...

I am not quite there yet, OK?

That Magnificent Obsession...

The Obsession of the God-Seeing Saints...

Man's Obsession with God...

There is a converse with every dysfunctional fallen abberation, where a trait initially created is perfectly appropriate, where we short circuit it into our fallen material world, where the Image of God in which we were created gets twisted into inappropriate useage, and Divine Virtues become perverted into carnal and worldly vices... The conversion of these vices back into virtues is an important feature of the Way of Salvation... We call it the collection of the nous... Or more generically, the gathering of the dispersed... Carnally it is known as focus, common to professional sports and military combat...

God Bless You my Brother...

Arsenios

If you have time and do not mind 1970s cheap BBC sets and camera work I have a video that I think is instructive. What is so strange about it is that it is the King Henry VII of England (the father of Henry VIII who had six wives one after another killing two divorcing two one who died soon after child birth and one who survived only because Henry VIII died before having her arrested and executed) who does the instructing and does it well even though the acting is hampered a little by the quality of the sets. I'll include the video here, it takes a while to watch (51 minutes) but it is worth it in my opinion.

 

Arsenios

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If you have time and do not mind 1970s cheap BBC sets and camera work I have a video that I think is instructive. What is so strange about it is that it is the King Henry VII of England (the father of Henry VIII who had six wives one after another killing two divorcing two one who died soon after child birth and one who survived only because Henry VIII died before having her arrested and executed) who does the instructing and does it well even though the acting is hampered a little by the quality of the sets. I'll include the video here, it takes a while to watch (51 minutes) but it is worth it in my opinion.

There is a whole series of the Shadow of the Tower... This was the inspiration for your OP querie... And the answer a man must give when confronted by the flames of an earthly execution and the prospect of eternal damnation, vs the solid conviction of his rational mind... And our protagonist took consideration of the vulnerability of human reason and decided to re-join the Church rather than trust his own fallenness in rejecting Her teachings, with the earthly flames not optional, and in the face of the remembrance of how he felt the last time he recanted...

High drama...

Nor did he cry out as he had under torture...

And the King seeking the Salvation of his soul...

Where Wisdom is proven in her children...

And Henry the VIII bloody well a murderer of his own family...

What a nightmare...

The leaven of the Pharisee...

Do I trust my own reasoning??

That is why I trust the Revelation of God in His Saints...

And it is why I believe in "One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church..."

Proving the other guy wrong does not make me right...

Arsenios
 

Pedrito

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I wish to assure Arsenios that my Post #39 was not aimed at him in any way.

It was simply my weird mind attempting some twisted humour to make a point.

The battle against obsession can indeed become obsessive. The mind of the obsessed becomes abscessed unless the urge is recessed...


I think I’d better stop now.
 

Arsenios

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I wish to assure Arsenios that my Post #39 was not aimed at him in any way.

It was simply my weird mind attempting some twisted humour to make a point.

The battle against obsession can indeed become obsessive. The mind of the obsessed becomes abscessed unless the urge is recessed...


I think I’d better stop now.

Aw shucks-
And here I thought you were trying to help me!
Dern!!

Did you like my reply??

A. :)
 

MoreCoffee

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There is a whole series of the Shadow of the Tower... This was the inspiration for your OP querie... And the answer a man must give when confronted by the flames of an earthly execution and the prospect of eternal damnation, vs the solid conviction of his rational mind... And our protagonist took consideration of the vulnerability of human reason and decided to re-join the Church rather than trust his own fallenness in rejecting Her teachings, with the earthly flames not optional, and in the face of the remembrance of how he felt the last time he recanted...

It a series of 13 episodes and the one you saw was episode 5. The story (entitled "The Serpent and the Comforter") is about the serpent of reason and the comfort of Christ's church in this world and the next. The story may not be completely accurate according to history. During Henry VII's reign 14 heretics were arrested and executed. The script for the drama gives a snapshot that may match historical reality to a degree.

I liked the heretic and so much of his thinking is so natural and so obvious to human reason that his arguments cannot fail to be persuasive to many. "I need no priests to pray to God, no sacraments, the bible is the same for all and having it makes God accessible equally to all. And Christ did not intend for the church to have great cathedrals and beautiful art work fine vestments and plentiful food for her ministers. Nor celibacy nor bread and wine that becomes anything but bread and wine. Reason cannot accept these mysteries." I felt so sorry for him, and shared the tears of the young soldier guard when he died.

And Henry VII seemed so much like a serpent insinuating his mysteries into the troubled and fearful mind of the heretic. The story left one wondering if maybe the serpent was Henry VII and the comforter the young soldier. But the script says it is serpent reason and comforter church.

I think the story is instructive because if you listen to Henry VII's words with care and forget from whom they come it is evident that he is right. The heretic thought he had grasped the great mystery of God himself and that his interpretations were better by far than any other man's unless the other agreed with him. He was humble in countenance and voice but in the content of his words was a pride almost infinite.

I am very glad indeed that men are generally not killed for their faith in the lands in which we live and that no heretic faces the torch today nor imprisonment nor torture of body and mind in our lands. Violence like that was accepted as just back then when Henry VII was still young as king and still fighting to establish his dynasty (the Tudors) having just overthrown Richard III (a Plantagenet king).

The rest of the series has some important lessons in it too, it is interesting that a script writing team in the 1970s touched on such issues.

High drama...

Nor did he cry out as he had under torture...

And the King seeking the Salvation of his soul...

Where Wisdom is proven in her children...

And Henry the VIII bloody well a murderer of his own family...

The story is of Henry VII. His young son Henry VIII appears in the later episodes as a child.

What a nightmare...

The leaven of the Pharisee...

Do I trust my own reasoning??

That is why I trust the Revelation of God in His Saints...

And it is why I believe in "One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church..."

Proving the other guy wrong does not make me right...

Arsenios

The holy scriptures cannot be properly grasped without the church because the church is the context of holy scripture and within the church God speaks more clearly than in scripture alone.
 

Arsenios

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It a series of 13 episodes and the one you saw was episode 5. The story (entitled "The Serpent and the Comforter") is about the serpent of reason and the comfort of Christ's church in this world and the next. The story may not be completely accurate according to history. During Henry VII's reign 14 heretics were arrested and executed. The script for the drama gives a snapshot that may match historical reality to a degree.

I think the East used banishment for those fallen in heresy... Chrysostom was sent into exile, and his treatment there was so harsh to an old man that he died enroute to somewhere - I think his last words were "Glory to god in all things..."

We had a Romanian Priest in Wisconsin who suffered under the Communists at one of their torture hospitals... They wanted to know if they could alter human nature - Holding them stressed for days... Anyone who failed was shot immediately... And did a lot of indoctrination and on and on... He died a couple of years ago... And he said a remarkable thing: Whenever you are tortured, you WILL love your torturer... I never heard him say why... We have a carnal explanation for the Stockholm Syndrome, but he was way past that...

I liked the heretic and so much of his thinking is so natural and so obvious to human reason that his arguments cannot fail to be persuasive to many. "I need no priests to pray to God, no sacraments, the bible is the same for all and having it makes God accessible equally to all. And Christ did not intend for the church to have great cathedrals and beautiful art work fine vestments and plentiful food for her ministers. Nor celibacy nor bread and wine that becomes anything but bread and wine. Reason cannot accept these mysteries." I felt so sorry for him, and shared the tears of the young soldier guard when he died.

Well, the movie made every effort to present him sympthetically - Watching it made him to be the hero and the Church to be the toad... And make no mistake - The Churchmen were toads - With a conscience, at least some, and Henry VII... The whole issue of conjoining temporal power with atemporal authority is a big problem for politics... God permitted Constantinople to fall after a thousand years of restraining Satan... And Moscow fell faster than that... The USA could well end up being the last bastion of Christian rule, because the rest of the world has defaulted - Islam believes in worldly rulership - Christians do not... Except for the RCC, which had her earthly power pretty much taken from Her...

And Henry VII seemed so much like a serpent insinuating his mysteries into the troubled and fearful mind of the heretic. The story left one wondering if maybe the serpent was Henry VII and the comforter the young soldier. But the script says it is serpent reason and comforter church.

The Church, with all Her issues, is still the Church... Ideally, Her Clergy should be able to guide the faithful to God... But they cannot do so unless they are themselves wedded to Him themselves... And so many are not... None in the movie...

I think the story is instructive because if you listen to Henry VII's words with care and forget from whom they come it is evident that he is right. The heretic thought he had grasped the great mystery of God himself and that his interpretations were better by far than any other man's unless the other agreed with him. He was humble in countenance and voice but in the content of his words was a pride almost infinite.

The final hour his words came to the heretic - "What if you are wrong?" I have to think the heretic would be excused if he rejected the teachings of flagrant sinners, which was most of the clergy... We do not see him encountering a charismatic Father of the Church - He only knew the sinful priests which his idealism could not abide... Pitting integrity against Authority is not Christian... Christian integrity is not praticularly receptive to imposed secular authority that violates Christian norms... Or at least it should not be...

I am very glad indeed that men are generally not killed for their faith in the lands in which we live and that no heretic faces the torch today nor imprisonment nor torture of body and mind in our lands. Violence like that was accepted as just back then when Henry VII was still young as king and still fighting to establish his dynasty (the Tudors) having just overthrown Richard III (a Plantagenet king).

Well, the Faith of Christ IS voluntary and willful... To impose the Faith with secular authority by burning at the stake those not in agreement is not Christian... It is a test which we see now in the land of the free here in the USA... If man is free and prosporous, will he embrace the Apostolic Faith, or will he simply turn carnal? The non-Apostolic Faiths are pretty much on the decline here, not holding their own children... But the Apostolic ones are struggling to hold theirs too... The draw of the secular world, and how to live in it as a Christian, is one of our great challenges in post-modern America...

The rest of the series has some important lessons in it too, it is interesting that a script writing team in the 1970s touched on such issues.

They had to be conscience driven Roman Catholics...

The holy scriptures cannot be properly grasped without the church because the church is the context of holy scripture and within the church God speaks more clearly than in scripture alone.

They were written from within the PRAXIS of the Faith, and outside of this praxis of the Faith they simply have no frame of reference other than words on pages in Bibles by which to understand the meanings... Reading John for the first time as a non-Christian who knew God, I KNEW right away that even though I had great insights into the meanings of words therein, that I had no BASIS for understanding it - I had to know a LOT more than I did in order to GET the meaning of the Text... I knew I needed a frame of reference from which it had been written, and for which it had been written, and it turns out that all the intellectual scholastic criteria established for such determination, while interesting and useful and important, are not sufficient... I had to enter into the Life of the Church, through Baptism, and through the Praxis of the Faith as discipled, in order to extablish a matrix of undeerstanding in my person for understanding the Written... And THEN is ALL started making a ton of sense... Similarly, one can read the play-book of NFL football teams and get them totally computerized and accessible in one's mind, but until you actually PLAY in games, you do not KNOW what they mean - They are only X's and O's on paper with arrows and blocks added...

Arsenios
 

Arsenios

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It is a series of 13 episodes and the one you saw was episode 5.
The story (entitled "The Serpent and the Comforter") is about the serpent of reason
and the comfort of Christ's church in this world and the next.

I wonder...

Because the Comforter is the Holy Spirit...
When the Church is infiltrated by the Serpent...
One then finds Heretics in rebellion of the secular authoritarianism of the Church...
Rebellion against the Serpent...

Yet the story had the likable Heretic hearing Henry's words at the end:
"What if you are wrong?"
And he could not trust his own reason to take that chance...
And he recanted...

So that theologically, the play is flawed, in that it makes the Church the Comforter...
Because She is NOT the Comforter...
She is the Body of Christ...

I would have preferred to see him recant from an encounter with God the Holy Spirit...
Or with the Blessed Virgin...
Or with Christ-God...

And while we can say that the Holy Spirit used the memory of Henry's words to obtain the recantation of Heresy, THAT feature was not dramatized... So was not a feature of the drama...

So tell me, did you watch the latest movie of Les Miserables ??
I joined the Sob Sisters watching that one...
I mean, talk about intercessory prayer!!
"O Lord... Hear my prayer... Bring him home..."

Don't get me started!!

Arsenios
 

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The holy scriptures cannot be properly grasped without the church because the church is the context of holy scripture and within the church God speaks more clearly than in scripture alone.
Well...that's just a load of church dogma, unsupported by scripture. It's the same claim that Imams make within Islam. It's the same claim given by the Latter Day Saints, it's the same claim offered by a myriad of cults that wish to enslave their followers.
 
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