Predestination Romans 9 Potter and clay

[brightfame52]

Could be, but I'm not sure, cause in heaven he who overcomes may eat from the tree of Life. First you have to die with Christ, overcome sin and temptation and then you may eat from the tree and become like God, who will be all in all. But then they had no sin. They could simply say not today satan and just eat from the tree of Life instead. Eternal life is to know Him.

Im sure. God promised Eternal Life in Christ before Adam was ever created Titus 1:2

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

This Life was and is in His Son, never in Adam

1 Jn 5:11

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Maybe you think Christ was a backup plan to Adam lol

 

[brightfame52]

albion

The problem here appears to be caused by your inability to differentiate between foreknowledge and foreordination. That's something that most students of the Bible learned early on.

What makes you make a blanket statement like that ? Evidently you dont know the difference, because there is no difference. The word foreordination in 1 Pet 1:20 is the same exact word in Rom 8:29 foreknew proginōskō:

1. o have knowledge before hand
2. to foreknow
   1. of those whom God elected to salvation
3. to predestinate

God foreknows things because He predestinated them

 

[Albion]

albion



What makes you make a blanket statement like that ?

First, I don't think it's a "blanket statement." The difference between foreknowledge and foreordination is rather specific.

As for why I raised it, I have noticed in a number of your posts that in some way deal with this topic that you appear to treat the one as if it were the other...and this may have led to the "disconnect" existing between you and several of us who have replied to your posts.

Evidently you dont know the difference, because there is no difference. The word foreordination in 1 Pet 1:20 is the same exact word in Rom 8:29 foreknew proginōskō:

1. o have knowledge before hand
2. to foreknow
   1. of those whom God elected to salvation
3. to predestinate

God foreknows things because He predestinated them

"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate...The two phrases indicate two distinct steps."
That's from the Ellicott commentary about your choice of Bible verse.

 

[brightfame52]

albion

First, I don't think it's a "blanket statement.

I do, and quite judgmental for no reason.

 

[Messy]

"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate..

Oh yes. That's as clear as can be. First He knows who they are and then He gives em a destiny.

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

 

[Messy]

God foreknows things because He predestinated them

No look at Romans 8. It's the other way around.

Who He

proginōskō​

G4267 - proginōskō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

Same word used in

2Pe 3:17 - Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, G4267 beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness


as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.


He proorizō

G4309 - proorizō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

G4309 - προορίζω proorízō, pro-or-id'-zo; from and ; to limit in advance, i.e. (figuratively) predetermine:—determine before, ordain, predestinate.

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[brightfame52]

No look at Romans 8. It's the other way around.

Who He

proginōskō​

G4267 - proginōskō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

He proorizō

G4309 - proorizō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

G4309 - προορίζω proorízō, pro-or-id'-zo; from and ; to limit in advance, i.e. (figuratively) predetermine:—determine before, ordain, predestinate.

www.blueletterbible.org

No its not the other way around. God knows everything because He decreed it and performs it. Isa 46:9-10

9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

 

[brightfame52]

Christ could not have been set up from everlasting, and appointed to appear in the fullness of time, to purge away sin by the sacrifice of himself, had not the being of it then been fixed and determined. His engagement with the Divine Father in eternity is a full and clear demonstration that sin or moral evil is no accidental thing, but a wise and holy determination of God, for the manifestation of his own glory, in the Person of his dear Son, the adorable Redeemer, from it. Jesus coming was setup from everlasting Mic 5:2

2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting

Prov 8:22-23

22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Christ could not have been set up from everlasting, and appointed to appear in the fullness of time, to purge away sin by the sacrifice of himself, had not the being of it then been fixed and determined.

How do you know that it could not?

 

[brightfame52]

How do you know that it could not?

Already explained pay attention

 

[brightfame52]

It should be understood by the reader of the scriptures, that God Created this World for His own purpose and pleasure Rev 4:11

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Col 1:16

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Prov 16:4

4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Now we believe all things were created for Gods purpose.

Now we also know that some men are born into this world as sinners and end up dying in their sins and will spend eternity seperated from God in hell. Matt 25:41

So was Gods purpose for creating them fulfilled as He so desired and purposed for their creation ?

 

[Albion]

Christ could not have been set up from everlasting, and appointed to appear in the fullness of time, to purge away sin by the sacrifice of himself, had not the being of it then been fixed and determined.

On the contrary, God Almighty was entirely capable of doing what you said there that he couldn't.

Now we also know that some men are born into this world as sinners and end up dying in their sins and will spend eternity seperated from God in hell. Matt 25:41

That's not even close to what Matthew 25:41 actually says. And if we read the preceding verses, we find that the message actually is that those who will spend eternity separated from God are being told that it's because they had the opportunity to do right but chose to do wrong and reject God instead.

 

[Messy]

Ezekiel 33

When I say to the wicked, ‘O wicked man, you shall surely die!’ and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. 9 Nevertheless if you warn the wicked to turn from his way, and he does not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have [b]delivered your soul.

10 “Therefore you, O son of man, say to the house of Israel: ‘Thus you say, “If our transgressions and our sins lie upon us, and we pine[c] away in them, how can we then live?” ’ 11 Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

How do you respond to Proverbs 16:4? - Greg Boyd - ReKnew

“The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.” Calvinists often cite this verse to support the conclusion that some people are created wicked for the expressed purpose of being sent to hell. Since Scripture teaches that God is love (1 John 4:8, 16), that...

reknew.org

 

[brightfame52]

On the contrary, God Almighty was entirely capable of doing what you said there that he couldn't.

That's not even close to what Matthew 25:41 actually says. And if we read the preceding verses, we find that the message actually is that those who will spend eternity separated from God are being told that it's because they had the opportunity to do right but chose to do wrong and reject God instead.

You fail to follow simple reason. Do you believe some are going to hell for eternity ?

 

[brightfame52]

Ezekiel 33

When I say to the wicked, ‘O wicked man, you shall surely die!’ and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. 9 Nevertheless if you warn the wicked to turn from his way, and he does not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have [b]delivered your soul.

10 “Therefore you, O son of man, say to the house of Israel: ‘Thus you say, “If our transgressions and our sins lie upon us, and we pine[c] away in them, how can we then live?” ’ 11 Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

How do you respond to Proverbs 16:4? - Greg Boyd - ReKnew

“The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.” Calvinists often cite this verse to support the conclusion that some people are created wicked for the expressed purpose of being sent to hell. Since Scripture teaches that God is love (1 John 4:8, 16), that...

reknew.org

Those scriptures have nothing to do with my points, just evasive rabbit trails

 

[Albion]

You fail to follow simple reason. Do you believe some are going to hell for eternity ?

Try some "simple reason" on us and let's see.

 

[Messy]

Those scriptures have nothing to do with my points, just evasive rabbit trails

I can better talk to my rabbit than to you. He listens to me better.

 

[brightfame52]

Try some "simple reason" on us and let's see.

lol, you late, you just confirmed it

 

[brightfame52]

I can better talk to my rabbit than to you. He listens to me better.

You may as well, all you have is rabbit talk