Poor Theology - follow the wide, easy path

[tango]

"Look at how big that church is"
"Look how many people go to that church"
"That church just keeps growing"

So they must be doing something right, right?

Well, not necessarily.

The early church showed a growth rate that any modern day church would love to see. But does that mean that any church that grows fast is automatically good? Some people seem to think it does, although like so much else it seems to be based on faulty logic.

"If we're doing God's work faithfully we will grow" doesn't automatically imply "if we grow we must doing God's work faithfully". A church that is little more than a glorified social club can become very popular. Jesus talked of how few people would find the narrow path and how most people would take the wide path. So a church that is growing fast might be doing God's work and doing it well, or it might just be an ear-tickling outfit that rounds up lots of people from the wide path and makes them feel good about themselves. Temples and mosques have been known to enjoy meteoric growth too.

It's certainly possible that a church grows fast as a result of being greatly blessed by God. But rapid growth in and of itself doesn't mean anything.

 

[psalms 91]

Absolutely true and it makes one tremble when you take that scripture and the one that says scarely the very elect will be saved except those days be shortened

 

[dogs4thewin]

True. I will say though that if a church is a social club and is too worldly some people might say why would I want to join that as I see no difference from myself and my other friends.

 

[tango]

True. I will say though that if a church is a social club and is too worldly some people might say why would I want to join that as I see no difference from myself and my other friends.

Very true, although for some people a church that tickles their ears and makes them feel good is more palatable than a church that tells them they've grown too comfortable with the world and aren't very salty.

 

[Lamb]

You're right in that rapid growth of a church doesn't really mean that God is there more than in any other church. Some people attend church for all the wrong reasons and don't realize that God serves us in the service. He serves us His Word, feeding us, He serves us His body and blood in Communion, He serves us with absolution when we confess our sins.

When looking at the Old Testament we see a time when His flock was small so for churches that NEED to have those huge numbers, always remember that God builds His church and does so in His timing. We want all to come to Christ and know the Savior but we don't need to do so with entertaining to lure them in really.

 

[psalms 91]

Totally agree, it is only God that builds His kingdom and all we can do is be willing instruments of the Holy Spirit because it is the Jesus others see in us and our testimony that will attract them and keep them. Worldly entertainment may draw them for awhile but most will wander

 

[Hebrews 11]

Great thread, in my area I am amazed at the crowds drawn to Spirtualism / Mystic seminars.
I walked into one held in a large public room a few years ago.
Yuck magic rocks,some white guy doing a mystic Native American chant dance.

In all the garbage I noticed one common theme..
IT'S ALL ABOUT ME!
Self awareness self empowered self everything.
I know this is a extreme example but the hot tub Churches have the same type of mentally with some God mixed in.
It comes down to a choice of worshipping the creature more than the Creator.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Great thread, in my area I am amazed at the crowds drawn to Spirtualism / Mystic seminars.
I walked into one held in a large public room a few years ago.
Yuck magic rocks,some white guy doing a mystic Native American chant dance.

In all the garbage I noticed one common theme..
IT'S ALL ABOUT ME!
Self awareness self empowered self everything.
I know this is a extreme example but the hot tub Churches have the same type of mentally with some God mixed in.
It comes down to a choice of worshipping the creature more than the Creator.

I seriously doubt they were worshiping a rock. Native American beliefs systems are very closely related to real Christianity. I find some belief systems difficult to comprehend. I also find many churches and priests focusing on self and members of the church as oppose to spreading the word as instructed. Of course its hard to read and comprehend to the point of proper execution of a directed task is one is preoccupied by greed.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Just to be clear the wide easy path surely isn't the one most don't relate to.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Ruth]

I am looking for a church to go to. I want one that gives hope to people who are struggling and that is what the one church I want to go to does. It is a come as you are church.

 

[psalms 91]

That is pretty much the church I go to

 

[Hammster]

My church preaches the gospel. That's it. Christ and Him crucified. That covers everything.

 

[Hebrews 11]

I seriously doubt they were worshiping a rock. Native American beliefs systems are very closely related to real Christianity. I find some belief systems difficult to comprehend. I also find many churches and priests focusing on self and members of the church as oppose to spreading the word as instructed. Of course its hard to read and comprehend to the point of proper execution of a directed task is one is preoccupied by greed.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Let me clarify my analogy;

I was giving examples of idolatry that was presented at the meeting.
Grammer is certainly not my favorite study,I must have confused you, listing the things without bullet points.
The rocks supposed to have had some healing or spiritual benifit.
The Native American chant dance was a separate part of the event.
Native American beliefs other than Jesus Christ are Pagan, when they pray and chant to Spirits.
I am mixed Cherokee myself,and I know a fake when I see one.

Having beliefs close to Christ will put you in Hell,we must believe in Christ alone.
Native American Pagan beliefs are dangerous and have demonic powers attached to them.
My advise would be to stay away from such things as orbs,and animal Spirits.

 

[tango]

I am looking for a church to go to. I want one that gives hope to people who are struggling and that is what the one church I want to go to does. It is a come as you are church.

The church should give hope but only if it's a genuine hope based on Christ's sacrifice for us. It's easy to give people a false hope - anyone can offer soothing words that "we all go to heaven eventually" or "you don't have to worry about sin because you're forgiven" but what good does that hope do if it proves to be unfounded?

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to say that the church you describe is bad (having never been there I can't comment either way), just that there needs to be so much more to a church than giving hope to those who are struggling.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Let me clarify my analogy;

I was giving examples of idolatry that was presented at the meeting.
Grammer is certainly not my favorite study,I must have confused you, listing the things without bullet points.
The rocks supposed to have had some healing or spiritual benifit.
The Native American chant dance was a separate part of the event.
Native American beliefs other than Jesus Christ are Pagan, when they pray and chant to Spirits.
I am mixed Cherokee myself,and I know a fake when I see one.

Having beliefs close to Christ will put you in Hell,we must believe in Christ alone.
Native American Pagan beliefs are dangerous and have demonic powers attached to them.
My advise would be to stay away from such things as orbs,and animal Spirits.

Definitely didn't mean it was ok to worship orbs or animal spirits. But really it isn't paganism unless you deny the subsidiary nature of everything under God. There are spirits and angels and the like. To acknowledge that isn't idol worship. To acknowledge that without acknowledging God that created it all is pagan. Natives are generally peaceful, waste not, and know that there is a spiritual life, and that there is a God. There beliefs follow the teachings of Christ quite well.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Alithis]

"Look at how big that church is"
"Look how many people go to that church"
"That church just keeps growing"

So they must be doing something right, right?

Well, not necessarily.

The early church showed a growth rate that any modern day church would love to see. But does that mean that any church that grows fast is automatically good? Some people seem to think it does, although like so much else it seems to be based on faulty logic.

"If we're doing God's work faithfully we will grow" doesn't automatically imply "if we grow we must doing God's work faithfully". A church that is little more than a glorified social club can become very popular. Jesus talked of how few people would find the narrow path and how most people would take the wide path. So a church that is growing fast might be doing God's work and doing it well, or it might just be an ear-tickling outfit that rounds up lots of people from the wide path and makes them feel good about themselves. Temples and mosques have been known to enjoy meteoric growth too.

It's certainly possible that a church grows fast as a result of being greatly blessed by God. But rapid growth in and of itself doesn't mean anything.

do you ,maybe, observe, some times, that a lot of that speedy growth ..is not the growth of new coverts but the growth of the discontent drifting to the next "latest thing" .. and they bring with them al the indifference of the congregations they left ? i observe at times churches of new and swift growth in the west often display this in their numbers growth while lack spiritual growth ..
might i be so bold as to suggest that way too often people are waiting for GOD to change them and follow every new fad in hope that such change will magically happen with no effort from them selves , no desire to separate themselves from the the flesh and its sin . they desire to be filled with the holiness of god but have no desire to be emptied of the unholiness of the world ... so they attend every new exciting thing on sunday .. and then rush to hollywood's latest blockbuster on monday ..- and mixed waters in the vessel ..is .. dirty water .they say i love god on sunday . then they disdain his holiness on monday by pouring in dirty water into that pure water in the most irreverent fashion .for even the world does not so keenly sully that which IT hold precious . to know the waters of purity we MUST be emptied of the unclean water .. and to maintain the purity of the presence of god i our lives we simply can NOT then go and pout worldliness back into the vessel and so mingle the waters again.

it is the laodicean phenomena -as much as some get upset at such a suggestion. it is nothing more then the sickening muddied waters at the edge of the river of God where too much of the western church dwells .dragging the mud of the world into the waters at the edge of the river and there remaining so they can go in and out of the world at their own will and all they do s make a mudpit .. they then lift a cup of this muddy water to the world and say" here, drink" .. and wonder why the world says eww no thanks . !

 

[MoreCoffee]

"Look at how big that church is"
"Look how many people go to that church"
"That church just keeps growing"

So they must be doing something right, right?

Well, not necessarily.

The early church showed a growth rate that any modern day church would love to see. But does that mean that any church that grows fast is automatically good? Some people seem to think it does, although like so much else it seems to be based on faulty logic.

"If we're doing God's work faithfully we will grow" doesn't automatically imply "if we grow we must doing God's work faithfully". A church that is little more than a glorified social club can become very popular. Jesus talked of how few people would find the narrow path and how most people would take the wide path. So a church that is growing fast might be doing God's work and doing it well, or it might just be an ear-tickling outfit that rounds up lots of people from the wide path and makes them feel good about themselves. Temples and mosques have been known to enjoy meteoric growth too.

It's certainly possible that a church grows fast as a result of being greatly blessed by God. But rapid growth in and of itself doesn't mean anything.

Size and growth rate offer only a very superficial 'positive impression' of a group. Stability and longevity also offer a superficial 'positive impression'. Truth matters but to benefit from it one must know what it is and that's where things get difficult. It takes time and effort to discern the truth while superficial 'positive impressions' are easy. Besides, joining the local crowd offers a kind of security ... not one that matters in the long term but one that appeals to a fast satisfaction seeking culture.

 

[Arsenios]

Absolutely true and it makes one tremble when you take that scripture and the one that says scarely the very elect will be saved except those days be shortened

Those days ARE being shortened...

For some years now...

A lot...

Arsenios

Who is lucky to get 10 hours out of a 24 hour day...

 

[Arsenios]

You're right in that rapid growth of a church doesn't really mean that God is there more than in any other church. Some people attend church for all the wrong reasons and don't realize that God serves us in the service. He serves us His Word, feeding us, He serves us His body and blood in Communion, He serves us with absolution when we confess our sins.

When looking at the Old Testament we see a time when His flock was small so for churches that NEED to have those huge numbers, always remember that God builds His church and does so in His timing. We want all to come to Christ and know the Savior but we don't need to do so with entertaining to lure them in really.

My question would be more overall - How many churches are growing at all?

Mega-churches seem to but be taking the over-spill from small church departures...

Are they bringing in new Christians?

Or merely harvesting old ones...?

In the main - There will obviously be both...

Arsenios

 

[MoreCoffee]

Those days ARE being shortened...

For some years now...

A lot...

Arsenios

Who is lucky to get 10 hours out of a 24 hour day...

Does daylight saving time shorten days? I mean either the start does or the end does.

:smirk: