Plan B?

[Albion]

Yes but the Hal Lindsey theory is that this generation will not pass means the generation that saw WWII and saw Israel become a country, so there's not much time left.

Very much like the Jehovah's Witnesses who predicted 1914, and then when it didn't happen, said that the start of World War I signified something, but it would be actually occur sometime during the lifetimes of people who were ALIVE during 1914. They are now nearing 110 years of age.

Or the Seventh-day Adventists who got started during a period in the 19th century when there was a lot of speculation about the Second Coming. When it didn't happen in the year predicted, another year was chosen and apologies made for the miscalculation, and when that didn't happen, the explanation was that God STARTED the process then. God has been working on getting his records in order...for almost 200 years now.

The list of people and movements in history who set the date only to have it not take place is impressive. And then there are those who insist that it DID take place but we either didn't notice or the event itself was other than we had expected.

 

[Messy]

Very much like the Jehovah's Witnesses who predicted 1914, and then when it didn't happen, said that the start of World War I signified something, but it would be actually occur sometime during the lifetimes of people who were ALIVE during 1914. They are now nearing 110 years of age.

Or the Seventh-day Adventists who got started during a period in the 19th century when there was a lot of speculation about the Second Coming. When it didn't happen in the year predicted, another year was chosen and apologies made for the miscalculation, and when that didn't happen, the explanation was that God STARTED the process then. God has been working on getting his records in order...for almost 200 years now.

The list of people and movements in history who set the date only to have it not take place is impressive. And then there are those who insist that it DID take place but we either didn't notice or the event itself was other than we had expected.

Oh yes lol.

But it still says He will revive them in 2 days. A day is like 2000 years. He can't let them wait ages.

 

[Lees]

It wasn't mocked in our church, but it was always: oh that's gonna take one hundred years or more and is now not important. We'll preach about eschatology some other time, which was never. And in the other church they only showed that horrid movie to scare you half to death. I remember that he was called Jim, cause my ex was also called Jim and she was that lazy dumbo. Come to the Bible study! Neh I'm lazy. And the perfect holy Jim husband of her of course got raptured and she didn't. I saw that movie in the time that I thought I had as much worth as a lice, so satan had a fun time. So often when I didn't find my ex immediately I thought he had been raptured and I missed it.

My take on it is, if it's in the Bible it's important. God didn't give us something in the Bible to ignore. And prophecy runs throughout the Bible. So for one to say we should better our time being charitable then studying prophecy, then studying the Bible, is ridiculous.

Jesus told the Jews, "If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes." (Luke 19:42) Through ignoring the Scriptures the Jews missed Jesus Christ.

I don't go to Bible studies to watch a movie. Christian movies are just filled with errors. You must go to the Bible alone.

Any who avoid the study of eschatology, avoid the Bible. It is throughout the Bible. To be ignorant of it is to be ignorant of the Bible.

Lees

 

[Albion]

Oh yes lol.
View attachment 2081
But it still says He will revive them in 2 days. A day is like 2000 years. He can't let them wait ages.

My take on it is, if it's in the Bible it's important. God didn't give us something in the Bible to ignore.

He didn't give us every last fact that is in the Bible so that we'd turn it into a dogma, either. If that were what's expected of us, we'd be making our own ritualistic re-enactments of crossing of the Red Sea into a sacrament.

 

[Messy]

My take on it is, if it's in the Bible it's important. God didn't give us something in the Bible to ignore. And prophecy runs throughout the Bible. So for one to say we should better our time being charitable then studying prophecy, then studying the Bible, is ridiculous.

Jesus told the Jews, "If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes." (Luke 19:42) Through ignoring the Scriptures the Jews missed Jesus Christ.

I don't go to Bible studies to watch a movie. Christian movies are just filled with errors. You must go to the Bible alone.

Any who avoid the study of eschatology, avoid the Bible. It is throughout the Bible. To be ignorant of it is to be ignorant of the Bible.

Lees

If it would take another 1000 years it wouldn't interest me much. We were always focused on getting as many as possible saved. Knowledge would increase. It used to all make zero sense to me, Daniel and Revelation, but you can count from Daniel when Jesus would come the first time.

 

[Lees]

He didn't give us every last fact that is in the Bible so that we'd turn it into a dogma, either. If that were what's expected of us, we'd be making our own ritualistic re-enactments of crossing of the Red Sea into a sacrament.

That's fine. Use whatever excuse you like to confess your ignorance of the Bible.

As I said, prophecy runs througout the Bible. To be ignorant of it, is to be ignorant of the Bible. Which some, for some reason, seem to excell in. And then in turn, they want to mock those who study the Bible. Typical.

Lees

 

[Lees]

If it would take another 1000 years it wouldn't interest me much. We were always focused on getting as many as possible saved. Knowledge would increase. It used to all make zero sense to me, Daniel and Revelation, but you can count from Daniel when Jesus would come the first time.

If you have no interest, why do you respond? Why do you not have interest in studying the Bible?

Where do you or others get the idea that the study of prophecy in the Bible casuses one to not be a witness for Jesus Christ?

How silly.

Personally, my opinion is this: This accusation that those who study prophecy don't witness for Jesus, is based upon the accuser's own laziness in studying the Scripture. Or worse, their inability to understand the Scriptures. Which can mean other things.

In other words, some can say, "I just love Jesus". All you need to do is "come to Jesus". Which sounds so spiritual, until some start asking questions. But what about this? Or what if? Well, don't bother them with questions about the Bible, because they don't know. They will just shut you down and say, "don't worry about that stuff, just come to Jesus".

To them, your only spiritual if your ignorant of the Bible. What a perverted generation we live in.

Lees

 

[Messy]

That's fine. Use whatever excuse you like to confess your ignorance of the Bible.

As I said, prophecy runs througout the Bible. To be ignorant of it, is to be ignorant of the Bible. Which some, for some reason, seem to excell in. And then in turn, they want to mock those who study the Bible. Typical.

Lees

And a christian may just believe in Jesus, regardless if He comes back or if there's a rapture or antichrist, but that's a gentile turned christian. Jews who know that the dead will be raised in the end and that the Messiah will come, for them this is great information. A brother of a forefather got saved because he saw in Danielwhen the Messiah would come the first time and he didn't understand, cause the lion was not laying with the lamb, but then he heard christians believed in a 2nd coming and it's one of the reasons he got saved. Nice that the heathen neighbour gets saved regardless if you skip all eschatology, bit some people get saved when they hear it. Ken Peters had a dream in the 80s about the antichrist and in the dream he got saved cause a guy who was left behind shared the Gospel with him and later he really got saved. It's not unimportant.
If it wasn't important it wouldn't be in the Bible. They wanted to kill John and couldn't and he got this great revelation. Don't take a word away from it and some christians say: ah don't care, not important.
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [c]instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work

 

[Messy]

If you have no interest, why do you respond? Why do you not have interest in studying the Bible?

Where do you or others get the idea that the study of prophecy in the Bible casuses one to not be a witness for Jesus Christ?

I'm interested. I was just explaining why it was never taught in my church, but it may also very well be that satan wants everyone to be ignorant and not prepared.

But know this, that if the master of the house had known whathour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.

 

[Lees]

And a christian may just believe in Jesus, regardless if He comes back or if there's a rapture or antichrist, but that's a gentile turned christian. Jews who know that the dead will be raised in the end and that the Messiah will come, for them this is great information. A brother of a forefather got saved because he saw in Danielwhen the Messiah would come the first time and he didn't understand, cause the lion was not laying with the lamb, but then he heard christians believed in a 2nd coming and it's one of the reasons he got saved. Nice that the heathen neighbour gets saved regardless if you skip all eschatology, bit some people get saved when they hear it. Ken Peters had a dream in the 80s about the antichrist and in the dream he got saved cause a guy who was left behind shared the Gospel with him and later he really got saved. It's not unimportant.
If it wasn't important it wouldn't be in the Bible. They wanted to kill John and couldn't and he got this great revelation. Don't take a word away from it and some christians say: ah don't care, not important.
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [c]instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work

I really don't know what you're trying to say.

Let's say one just got saved in a Sunday service. Praise God. Then on Wednesday night service there is a time of testimony. This new convert stands up and says I just thank God for saving me. Great testimony. The Holy Spirit is moving in the service.

Then, some 10 years later, on a Wednesday night, this same one stands up to give testimony. He says, I just thank God for saving me. Ohhhh...not so great. Is that all you have after 10 years of being a believer? What you have is a retarded believer not growing. Do you think that is pleasing to God? Not at all.

As I said, what a perverted generation we have.

Lees

 

[Lees]

I'm interested. I was just explaining why it was never taught in my church, but it may also very well be that satan wants everyone to be ignorant and not prepared.

But know this, that if the master of the house had known whathour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.

Of course Satan wants everyone ignorant of the Bible. Knowledge of the Scripture is the worse thing that can happen for him. And eschatology especially angers him as it points out how he will be defeated and his end.

When you use Scripture, could you give the reference? You use (Luke 12:39). So, go back up to (12:36). What does that tell you in light of what we have been discussing.

Lees

 

[Albion]

Personally, my opinion is this: This accusation that those who study prophecy don't witness for Jesus, is based upon the accuser's own laziness in studying the Scripture. Or worse, their inability to understand the Scriptures. Which can mean other things.

In fact, it's based much more often on the statements and reading lists of people who are devotees of Nineteenth Century premillennialism, the rapture, the tribulation, and dispensationalism.

These often look down on orthodox and evangelical Christians and think of them as ignorant of the Bible simply for putting their greatest emphasis on Christ and salvation rather than hints about dates, times, and etc. that someone or other has claimed to have found hidden between the lines of Scripture.

But no one has ever been saved as a result of having become the religious version of a tarot card or crystal ball reader.

 

[Messy]

In fact, it's based much more often on the statements and reading lists of people who are devotees of Nineteenth Century premillennialism, the rapture, the tribulation, and dispensationalism.

These often look down on orthodox and evangelical Christians and think of them as ignorant of the Bible simply for putting their greatest emphasis on Christ and salvation rather than hints about dates, times, and etc. that someone or other has claimed to have found hidden between the lines of Scripture.

But no one has ever been saved as a result of having become the religious version of a tarot card or crystal ball reader.

He's not setting dates. As far as I know normal evangelicals believe the rapture and some charismatics believe Kingdom now. Reformed believe something vague and never talk about it. I tried to have a conversation with a guy on a Dutch reformed forum and then a witch came ask if I had taken my pills and the mod always let her talk and not even said hey so bye I left that place and the discussion stopped.

 

[Albion]

He's not setting dates.

Well, I was addressing the general issue of where these ideas come from and why advocates are often prideful, thinking that they are superior Christians for dealing in the "where, when, and how we can know it" of Bible trivia.

As far as I know normal evangelicals believe the rapture

I don't think that's correct to say. Lutherans, Methodists, and other leading evangelical groups rarely bother with such stuff but prefer to preach salvation, justification, Christian morality, and bringing non-believers to Christ.

 

[Lees]

In fact, it's based much more often on the statements and reading lists of people who are devotees of Nineteenth Century premillennialism, the rapture, the tribulation, and dispensationalism.

These often look down on orthodox and evangelical Christians and think of them as ignorant of the Bible simply for putting their greatest emphasis on Christ and salvation rather than hints about dates, times, and etc. that someone or other has claimed to have found hidden between the lines of Scripture.

But no one has ever been saved as a result of having become the religious version of a tarot card or crystal ball reader.

Oh gee...you read lists.

What list says that premillennialism, or the Rapture, or the Tribulation, or dispensationalism is not orthodox?

Where, in the doctrine of the premillennialist, who hold to the Rapture or Tribulation, and dispensationalism, is there not great emphasis on Christ and salvation?

It wasn't me who came and mocked your views. It was you who felt the need to come here and mock those who study eschatology. Poor you.

Why do you compare eschatology to a tarot card or crystal ball reader? Where do those who study eschatology say salvation is of a tarot card or crystal ball?

Here Iv'e given plenty of questions where you can explain yourself. Scripture is required of course. Yeah...like that is going to happen. But....surprise me.

Lees

 

[Lees]

Well, I was addressing the general issue of where these ideas come from and why advocates are often prideful, thinking that they are superior Christians for dealing in the "where, when, and how we can know it" of Bible trivia.

I don't think that's correct to say. Lutherans, Methodists, and other leading evangelical groups rarely bother with such stuff but prefer to preach salvation, justification, Christian morality, and bringing non-believers to Christ.

Just because you are wilfully ignorant of the Bible, doesn't make those who know the Bible prideful. What a twisted and retarded view. On what basis do you consider studying eschatology, a true doctrine in Scripture, Bible trivia? Answer: Becuase you don't study the Bible.

Oh gee...you think premillennialists and dispensationalist don't preach salvation, and justification? Where do you get that. You who never use the Scriptures.

Lees

 

[Messy]

 

[Lees]

@Messy

Your 'funny' is incorrect. There has been no argument comparing postmill over dispensational.

Lees

 

[Messy]

@Messy

Your 'funny' is incorrect. There has been no argument comparing postmill over dispensational.

Lees

It's not funny and it's not building up, so I leave this thread.

 

[Lees]

In post #(33) the question of who are the 'children of the Kingdom' mentioned in (Matt. 8:12) was being discussed. Is it unbelieving Jews who trust their national heritage to be able to enter the feast and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? (8:11) But then they are denied entrance and cast into outer darkness where there was weeping and gnashing of teeth. It was brought up because the man without the wedding garment in (Matt. 22:11-14) was cast into outer darkness.

Which brought up the question as to what is 'outer darkness'? If it's hell or the lake of fire, why not just say so? This is important because we know that the tares in (Matt. 13:42) are definitely not believers. They are called 'children of the wicked one'. (13:38) The children of the kingdom are the believers. (13:38) And it doesn't say the tares are cast into outer darkness. It says they are cast into a furnace of fire where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth. (Matt. 13:42)

The only other place where 'outer darkness' is used is (Matt. 25:30) in the parable of the talents. Here the unprofitable servant is cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Remember, the parable of the Wedding Feast is not about the Church. Not about the Christian. It is about the guests coming to the wedding feast. The man cast into outer darkness does not represent a Christian or one professing to be a Christian. The 'kingdom of heaven' is not heaven. It is God's kingdom on earth with Israel the leading nation and Christ ruling from there.

All these things must be considered when trying to define 'outer darkness' and 'children of the kingdom'.

Lees