Not Happy

[Faith]

Ok, I wrote my LCMS pastor about a week 1/2 to 2 weeks ago, telling him I was leaving due to theistic evolution and age of the earth. I went to a ND church and it was ok but farther than I can comfortably drive with my anxiety. I watched Catholic services online and still don’t like it. I miss my LCMS church home but just don’t see how I can go there, believing in theistic evolution and an old earth.

I showed my hubby some alternative scientific explanations for the distant starlight problem and he thought they were kooky. If I were to ever consider believing in a young earth my whole family would be very disappointed in me, which is a kinder way to sayinfo the real way I’d word it.

I just don’t know what to do. I feel lost.

 

[Faith]

It’s more the theistic evolution that’s bothering me now, more so than the age of the earth.

 

[Albion]

Ok, I wrote my LCMS pastor about a week 1/2 to 2 weeks ago, telling him I was leaving due to theistic evolution and age of the earth. I went to a ND church and it was ok but farther than I can comfortably drive with my anxiety. I watched Catholic services online and still don’t like it. I miss my LCMS church home but just don’t see how I can go there, believing in theistic evolution and an old earth.

I showed my hubby some alternative scientific explanations for the distant starlight problem and he thought they were kooky. If I were to ever consider believing in a young earth my whole family would be very disappointed in me, which is a kinder way to sayinfo the real way I’d word it.

I just don’t know what to do. I feel lost.

Stick with the LC-MS.

As you were told, this issue (which we here can indeed appreciate) is typical of Confessional Lutherans, BUT as you were told by a representative of the church, it's not essential doctrine and not demanded of all members.

Having looked at all the available and "do-able" alternatives among church homes where you live, you haven't found a single other one that will work for you.

Therefore, you are faced with what you consider a conflict of conscience versus doing without a congregation. Given that choice, the New Testament seems strongly to be advising believers of the importance of them being part of a church.--reception of the sacraments, fellowship, instruction in the faith, etc. etc.

 

[1689Dave]

Ok, I wrote my LCMS pastor about a week 1/2 to 2 weeks ago, telling him I was leaving due to theistic evolution and age of the earth. I went to a ND church and it was ok but farther than I can comfortably drive with my anxiety. I watched Catholic services online and still don’t like it. I miss my LCMS church home but just don’t see how I can go there, believing in theistic evolution and an old earth.

I showed my hubby some alternative scientific explanations for the distant starlight problem and he thought they were kooky. If I were to ever consider believing in a young earth my whole family would be very disappointed in me, which is a kinder way to sayinfo the real way I’d word it.

I just don’t know what to do. I feel lost.

I don't know if this will do you any good. Nor do I swear it is true. But it is one way I harmonize pagan science with scripture.

YEC compatible with Old Earth?

What if everything you see in the world around you is God's eternal decree made visible by his creation of time, space and matter? In Hebrews 11:3 the writer says; “By faith we understand that the worlds were set in order at God’s command, so that the visible has its origin in the invisible.”...

christianityhaven.com

 

[Faith]

I don't know if this will do you any good. Nor do I swear it is true. But it is one way I harmonize pagan science with scripture.

YEC compatible with Old Earth?

What if everything you see in the world around you is God's eternal decree made visible by his creation of time, space and matter? In Hebrews 11:3 the writer says; “By faith we understand that the worlds were set in order at God’s command, so that the visible has its origin in the invisible.”...

christianityhaven.com

So what are you saying,exactly? That the world and universe just looks old but is young, or what? It was a little bit over my head, I think.

 

[Faith]

Stick with the LC-MS.

As you were told, this problem area (which we here can indeed appreciate) is typical of Confessional Lutherans, BUT as you were told by a representative of the church, it's not essential doctrine and not demanded of all members.

Having looked at all the available and "do-able" alternatives among church homes where you live, you haven't found a single other one that will work.

Therefore, you are faced with what you consider a certain conflict of conscience versus doing without a congregation. Given that choice, the New Testament seems strongly to be advising believers of the importance of them being part of a church.--reception of the sacraments, fellowship, instruction in the faith, etc. etc.

i talked to my husband at work who has to listen to this topic far more than you do and he said to stick with the LCMS, too, despite my beliefs. I just emailed my pastor and asked if I can even come back, but I don’t see why not. Waiting for his reply.

 

[Faith]

i talked to my husband at work who has to listen to this topic far more than you do and he said to stick with the LCMS, too, despite my beliefs. I just emailed my pastor and asked if I can even come back, but I don’t see why not. Waiting for his reply.

He said that I am always welcome there.

 

[Lamb]

i talked to my husband at work who has to listen to this topic far more than you do and he said to stick with the LCMS, too, despite my beliefs. I just emailed my pastor and asked if I can even come back, but I don’t see why not. Waiting for his reply.

I agree with your husband. Your complaints about the LCMS and evolution, young earth, old earth, really have nothing to do with Jesus and your salvation.

 

[NewCreation435]

So what are you saying,exactly? That the world and universe just looks old but is young, or what? It was a little bit over my head, I think.

I wonder why that is hard for you to believe? God can do anything he wants except violate his own perfect nature. It isn't hard for me to believe at all that God created something that looks older than it is.

 

[1689Dave]

I agree with your husband. Your complaints about the LCMS and evolution, young earth, old earth, really have nothing to do with Jesus and your salvation.

But they erode the bible making it untrustworthy.

 

[Faith]

I agree with your husband. Your complaints about the LCMS and evolution, young earth, old earth, really have nothing to do with Jesus and your salvation.

Yes, thank you.

 

[Faith]

I wonder why that is hard for you to believe? God can do anything he wants except violate his own perfect nature. It isn't hard for me to believe at all that God created something that looks older than it is.

It’s not too hard to believe, “its over my head” means I didnt understand.

 

[Faith]

I agree with your husband. Your complaints about the LCMS and evolution, young earth, old earth, really have nothing to do with Jesus and your salvation.

Very true.

 

[Josiah]

I agree with your husband. Your complaints about the LCMS and evolution, young earth, old earth, really have nothing to do with Jesus and your salvation.;..

... or any required belief of anyone in the LCMS.


But I can see.... if "old earth" is seen as THE essential teaching (rather than anything in the Lutheran Confessions)... not Justification or anything else.... then one might leave a church where "old earth" is not a de fide dogma and join one where it is. Everything else might be pushed aside. THAT teaching overriding everything else combined.

The LCMS and many other denominations disagree on issues. Perhaps our sister in Christ simply sees none of those as issues that matter, but one that "trumps" all others combined and one that is all-important, one that must be de fide dogma - one on which the Lutheran Confessions are silent either way and about which she will never be asked to agree upon. Perhaps she wants a church that is silent on everything else but declares Evolution as the one de fide dogma. I guess she can do that. I however don't agree with that approach.

As a former Catholic, I find it beyond bewildering that she considers that to be the valid alternative to Lutheranism. NOT because of areas where our two communities agree, but because she seems to think the LCMS requires her to be "young earth" (which it doesn't) and that the Roman Catholic Church requires her to be "old earth" (which it doesn't). NEITHER church has ANYTHING to say about this in EITHER the Lutheran or Catholic Confessions.... NEITHER church will ask her about her views on this when she joins or is confirmed. Maybe the things we disagree upon matter more than something neither of us have a required position upon? Just a thought.

PERHAPS (?) she has blown up one issue WAY out of proportion... so that it completely blocks out Jesus, Salvation, the Sacraments, the Nature of the Church, the role of Scripture and several hundred other things are, well, not worth even considering. This ONE thing (not a required belief in either church) renders all that combined moot? Worth considering? I'm glad SOMETHING matters to her.... I'm just wondering why THIS over everything else?




.

 

[Faith]

... or any required belief of anyone in the LCMS.


But I can see.... if "old earth" is seen as THE essential teaching (rather than anything in the Lutheran Confessions)... not Justification or anything else.... then one might leave a church where "old earth" is not a de fide dogma and join one where it is. Everything else might be pushed aside. THAT teaching overriding everything else combined.

The LCMS and many other denominations disagree on issues. Perhaps our sister in Christ simply sees none of those as issues that matter, but one that "trumps" all others combined and one that is all-important, one that must be de fide dogma - one on which the Lutheran Confessions are silent either way and about which she will never be asked to agree upon. Perhaps she wants a church that is silent on everything else but declares Evolution as the one de fide dogma. I guess she can do that. I however don't agree with that approach.

As a former Catholic, I find it beyond bewildering that she considers that to be the valid alternative to Lutheranism. NOT because of areas where our two communities agree, but because she seems to think the LCMS requires her to be "young earth" (which it doesn't) and that the Roman Catholic Church requires her to be "old earth" (which it doesn't). NEITHER church has ANYTHING to say about this in EITHER the Lutheran or Catholic Confessions.... NEITHER church will ask her about her views on this when she joins or is confirmed. Maybe the things we disagree upon matter more than something neither of us have a required position upon? Just a thought.

PERHAPS (?) she has blown up one issue WAY out of proportion... so that it completely blocks out Jesus, Salvation, the Sacraments, the Nature of the Church, the role of Scripture and several hundred other things are, well, not worth even considering. This ONE thing (not a required belief in either church) renders all that combined moot? Worth considering? I'm glad SOMETHING matters to her.... I'm just wondering why THIS over everything else?




.

I dont know…..I have OCD and other anxiety disorders. Maybe the OCD is just making this stick in my head.

 

[Faith]

... or any required belief of anyone in the LCMS.


But I can see.... if "old earth" is seen as THE essential teaching (rather than anything in the Lutheran Confessions)... not Justification or anything else.... then one might leave a church where "old earth" is not a de fide dogma and join one where it is. Everything else might be pushed aside. THAT teaching overriding everything else combined.

The LCMS and many other denominations disagree on issues. Perhaps our sister in Christ simply sees none of those as issues that matter, but one that "trumps" all others combined and one that is all-important, one that must be de fide dogma - one on which the Lutheran Confessions are silent either way and about which she will never be asked to agree upon. Perhaps she wants a church that is silent on everything else but declares Evolution as the one de fide dogma. I guess she can do that. I however don't agree with that approach.

As a former Catholic, I find it beyond bewildering that she considers that to be the valid alternative to Lutheranism. NOT because of areas where our two communities agree, but because she seems to think the LCMS requires her to be "young earth" (which it doesn't) and that the Roman Catholic Church requires her to be "old earth" (which it doesn't). NEITHER church has ANYTHING to say about this in EITHER the Lutheran or Catholic Confessions.... NEITHER church will ask her about her views on this when she joins or is confirmed. Maybe the things we disagree upon matter more than something neither of us have a required position upon? Just a thought.

PERHAPS (?) she has blown up one issue WAY out of proportion... so that it completely blocks out Jesus, Salvation, the Sacraments, the Nature of the Church, the role of Scripture and several hundred other things are, well, not worth even considering. This ONE thing (not a required belief in either church) renders all that combined moot? Worth considering? I'm glad SOMETHING matters to her.... I'm just wondering why THIS over everything else?




.

Dumb question but what is Justification?

BTW, my pastor not only said that I am always welcome there but when i told him that I still believe in theistic evolution and a young earth and asked again if I can come back in ”good conscience“ and be in “good standing with the LCMS?” he said “yes”. So it’s all good. At least until I start obsessing about it again. :-o

 

[Faith]

... or any required belief of anyone in the LCMS.


But I can see.... if "old earth" is seen as THE essential teaching (rather than anything in the Lutheran Confessions)... not Justification or anything else.... then one might leave a church where "old earth" is not a de fide dogma and join one where it is. Everything else might be pushed aside. THAT teaching overriding everything else combined.

The LCMS and many other denominations disagree on issues. Perhaps our sister in Christ simply sees none of those as issues that matter, but one that "trumps" all others combined and one that is all-important, one that must be de fide dogma - one on which the Lutheran Confessions are silent either way and about which she will never be asked to agree upon. Perhaps she wants a church that is silent on everything else but declares Evolution as the one de fide dogma. I guess she can do that. I however don't agree with that approach.

As a former Catholic, I find it beyond bewildering that she considers that to be the valid alternative to Lutheranism. NOT because of areas where our two communities agree, but because she seems to think the LCMS requires her to be "young earth" (which it doesn't) and that the Roman Catholic Church requires her to be "old earth" (which it doesn't). NEITHER church has ANYTHING to say about this in EITHER the Lutheran or Catholic Confessions.... NEITHER church will ask her about her views on this when she joins or is confirmed. Maybe the things we disagree upon matter more than something neither of us have a required position upon? Just a thought.

PERHAPS (?) she has blown up one issue WAY out of proportion... so that it completely blocks out Jesus, Salvation, the Sacraments, the Nature of the Church, the role of Scripture and several hundred other things are, well, not worth even considering. This ONE thing (not a required belief in either church) renders all that combined moot? Worth considering? I'm glad SOMETHING matters to her.... I'm just wondering why THIS over everything else?




.

I’ve been rereading over some old posts and noticed that the majority of mine where I was thinking about leaving the LCMS focused on my fixation on a young earth vs an old earth. But now my belief in theistic evolution is starting to bother me more again than the age of the earth.

So again after all that’s been said about this topic…..I just wanted to be CERTAIN that it’s ALSO not required of an LCMS member to believe in creationism and LCMS members aren’t required to reject theistic evolution, right?

 

[Lamb]

I’ve been rereading over some old posts and noticed that the majority of mine where I was thinking about leaving the LCMS focused on my fixation on a young earth vs an old earth. But now my belief in theistic evolution is starting to bother me more again than the age of the earth.

So again after all that’s been said about this topic…..I just wanted to be CERTAIN that it’s ALSO not required of an LCMS member to believe in creationism and LCMS members aren’t required to reject theistic evolution, right?

He's already told you that it's not a requirement.

 

[Faith]

He's already told you that it's not a requirement.

I know, but i was mostly focused on the age of the earth and I want to make CERTAIN that believing in creationism as opposed to theistic evolution isn’t a requirement, either.

 

[Lamb]

I know, but i was mostly focused on the age of the earth and I want to make CERTAIN that believing in creationism as opposed to theistic evolution isn’t a requirement, too.

It's not.