NASA and Facebook tricked you

[Stravinsk]

Theism is something I reject on lack of evidence. I cannot say theism is wrong because there is no evidence either way, therefore I take the default position of rejecting the claim. However, a flat Earth model I can say is utterly wrong because of all the evidence against it.

That sounds like a very generalized argument that someone like Neil Degrasse Tyson would make - someone who has argued the earth looks like this:

The evidence is for Flat Earth, by a very long measure. However, most people are not aware of it and will reject it because they are programmed from birth to do so. Not saying this is you - but you are Atheist/Agnostic and your worldview could not possibly accept the evidence, because your worldview is deeply tied to it. I'm not doubting your intelligence - I'm saying that your position will fight tooth and nail against it, whereas someone with some belief in a Creator may (I only say may, because of reasons already mentioned) be open to it.

 

[Rens]

As a cartographer I'm not open to it. Then how must all these pilots fly their planes, calculate how long it takes, all those maps that are used, just look at google earth. Best would be to just go to space. And at the shore you see that it's round.

 

[Stravinsk]

As a cartographer I'm not open to it. Then how must all these pilots fly their planes, calculate how long it takes, all those maps that are used. Best would be to just go to space. And at the shore you see that it's round.

Edit: please excuse the title which contains a profanity - that is the user's handle for youtube - but the video itself is clean.

Leaving aside (for the moment) the issue of maps and planes, the issue of "curvature" and the so called "proof" has been thoroughly debunked with real evidence:

The Wikipedia article showing ships going over the horizon that is offered as "proof" of earth curvature is misleading to say the least.

Notice the hostility in the Globe earther's stance? His particular position holds 0 water, but nothing said to him will convince him.

 

[Rens]

He has nice glasses.
Yes that isn't convincing if you believe it's flat. You do believe it's a circle then? If you look from left to right at the shore you see it's at least a circle.

If the sun goes down behind the see you don't see it anymore, so how is it going in a circle above the earth as a circle? And then you would still have some light everywhere if it's flat. Just take a round table and move a lightbulb above it or the sun would have to be really tiny and the earth gigantic, then a part could be dark, but you can fly to any place quite fast and it can't be because you see the sun disappear behind the ocean.
Oh and somewhere in Australia you'd fall off it. Why has noone ever seen a side or a corner of the earth?

 

[Rens]

Well at least this theory is less weird than a hollow earth with the sun moon and stars in the middle. One Dutch woman says that's totally Biblical and she believes satan bends the light so we see it different.

 

[Stravinsk]

He has nice glasses.
Yes that isn't convincing if you believe it's flat. You do believe it's a circle then? If you look from left to right at the shore you see it's at least a circle.

If the sun goes down behind the see you don't see it anymore, so how is it going in a circle above the earth as a circle? And then you would still have some light everywhere if it's flat. Just take a round table and move a lightbulb above it or the sun would have to be really tiny and the earth gigantic, then a part could be dark, but you can fly to any place quite fast and it can't be because you see the sun disappear behind the ocean.
Oh and somewhere in Australia you'd fall off it. Why has noone ever seen a side or a corner of the earth?

I love his glasses! :xD:

Yes, I believe the earth is circular and flat, not circular and a sphere.

Your question about not seeing the sun as it moves beyond the horizon:

I would like to draw your attention to the point in the video where the ships disappear from our line of site. This is often used as "proof" of curvature. However, as the video shows, and something you can test yourself - all you need is a zoom lens on a camera or a pair of binoculars and you will be able to see the ship again. But even with those tools - it will eventually move away far enough so that it is not visible to you.

What does that tell you? It tells you that our vision is limited. We can only see so far.

In the Flat Earth model - the sun is much smaller and closer (as are the moon and stars). Therefore - it can only be seen while it is relatively near to us.

 

[tango]

Theism is something I reject on lack of evidence. I cannot say theism is wrong because there is no evidence either way, therefore I take the default position of rejecting the claim.

At risk of a major derail here, I think it's more correct to say the default position is to not accept a claim rather than to reject it. Not accepting something leaves more options on the table than rejecting it.

 

[tango]

Is there a transcript of the video? I really have zero interest in watching a video that's little more than a succession of graphics that expects me to wait while someone reads the words to me.

 

[Stravinsk]

Is there a transcript of the video? I really have zero interest in watching a video that's little more than a succession of graphics that expects me to wait while someone reads the words to me.

Huh? There is no transcript that I'm aware of and it doesn't make much sense to characterize a video one hasn't even seen. There are now 2 videos in this thread, and the author of those videos is the same person.

 

[tango]

Huh? There is no transcript that I'm aware of and it doesn't make much sense to characterize a video one hasn't even seen. There are now 2 videos in this thread, and the author of those videos is the same person.

I watched enough of the first video to see it was little more than someone reading the words on the screen. I can't be bothered with videos that essentially assume I can't read for myself - most of the videos I've seen like that tend to be the kind of thing that take 5 minutes to make a point that need only have taken 15 seconds and seem to work along the lines of just generally wearing the viewer down by repetition until they start to believe things.

This video may or may not be one of those but the fact remains I'll only sit through so many slides that are little more than someone reading the words on the screen (usually slowly) before I lose interest.

 

[Stravinsk]

I watched enough of the first video to see it was little more than someone reading the words on the screen. I can't be bothered with videos that essentially assume I can't read for myself - most of the videos I've seen like that tend to be the kind of thing that take 5 minutes to make a point that need only have taken 15 seconds and seem to work along the lines of just generally wearing the viewer down by repetition until they start to believe things.

This video may or may not be one of those but the fact remains I'll only sit through so many slides that are little more than someone reading the words on the screen (usually slowly) before I lose interest.

It's a lot more than just reading words on a screen. I suggest you do not bother if the subject matter doesn't interest you or you do not think it is important. I don't think I have an appropriate response for "I watched only a portion of this and got impatient and assumed what the rest of it showed".

 

[MarkFL]

I'm going to be honest here...IMHO, belief in a flat Earth model takes about the same monumental denial of evidence as belief in a universe less than 10,000 years old, or belief that life was created all at once with pretty much the same diversity we see now. I'm not going to spend time arguing about things for which there is simply mountain after mountain after mountain of independent evidence against. If someone has made the Herculean effort to disregard that much solid reliable evidence, debate would obviously be fruitless.

 

[tango]

It's a lot more than just reading words on a screen. I suggest you do not bother if the subject matter doesn't interest you or you do not think it is important. I don't think I have an appropriate response for "I watched only a portion of this and got impatient and assumed what the rest of it showed".

I would be interested, I'd just like to see a reason to continue watching. The first 10-15% of the video left me irritated. I really don't like the modern trend of just showing words while someone reads them. If the makers of these videos really feel the need to just show words on a video (when a document would do just fine), they could at least put a decent amount of text on the screen at once and scroll faster. People watching can always hit the pause button to read it at their leisure.

 

[Stravinsk]

I'm going to be honest here...IMHO, belief in a flat Earth model takes about the same monumental denial of evidence as belief in a universe less than 10,000 years old, or belief that life was created all at once with pretty much the same diversity we see now. I'm not going to spend time arguing about things for which there is simply mountain after mountain after mountain of independent evidence against. If someone has made the Herculean effort to disregard that much solid reliable evidence, debate would obviously be fruitless.

I think I mentioned just a few pages back that the very idea is diametrically opposed to your position as an Agnostic/Atheist.

You site "evidence". The flat earther's actually have it and disregard un-prove-able theories and speculations that masquerade as "science". A Herculean effort has been made, by many - but one person has gone so far as to provide 200 proofs of Flat Earth, and given away his book for free. His name is Eric Dubay. I'm guessing you'll dismiss this out of hand without considering it.

 

[tango]

I think I mentioned just a few pages back that the very idea is diametrically opposed to your position as an Agnostic/Atheist.

You site "evidence". The flat earther's actually have it and disregard un-prove-able theories and speculations that masquerade as "science". A Herculean effort has been made, by many - but one person has gone so far as to provide 200 proofs of Flat Earth, and given away his book for free. His name is Eric Dubay. I'm guessing you'll dismiss this out of hand without considering it.

Do you have a link to somewhere you can get the book for free? I'd rather read something so I can go back and forth, than watch a video that inevitably guides me in a direction and at a speed decided by the producer.

 

[Stravinsk]

Do you have a link to somewhere you can get the book for free? I'd rather read something so I can go back and forth, than watch a video that inevitably guides me in a direction and at a speed decided by the producer.

This link is currently working:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/l679prcg097ny8u/200+Proofs+Earth+is+Not+a+Spinning+Ball%21.pdf

 

[MarkFL]

I think I mentioned just a few pages back that the very idea is diametrically opposed to your position as an Agnostic/Atheist.

This has nothing to do whatsoever with me being an atheist. This has to do with my trust that the entire scientific community is not engaged in a conspiracy...nor that my own eyes betrayed me when I was a sailor in the U.S. Navy and I saw the curvature of the Earth's surface with my own eyes both from aboard ship as I spied distant ships through our binocular telescopes and aboard a high altitude (50K+ ft.) flight across the Pacific. I have a hard time believing you are not trolling here. You might as well try to convince me that 1 + 1 = 3. C'mon...fess up...you surely cannot believe the Earth is flat.

 

[MarkFL]

Are we really actually discussing whether the Earth is a heliocentric oblate spheroid vs. a magical flat disk? Can we really be discussing such nonsense? C'mon, I implore thee...fess up to thy trollery.

It was bad enough when the community at large stood by and allowed a stupid definition of atheism to stand undisputed. Do none of you have any convictions? Are we going to let this just stand? I just don't get it. Speak up if you have any convictions whatsoever. Or is it just easier to sit idly by while nonsense is floated by?

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

He summs it up well at 6 minutes:
Bluup bluup bluup bloppity... heh heh...

I feel so tricked and indoctrinated.

#facepalm...

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Are we really actually discussing whether the Earth is a heliocentric oblate spheroid vs. a magical flat disk? Can we really be discussing such nonsense? C'mon, I implore thee...fess up to thy trollery.

It was bad enough when the community at large stood by and allowed a stupid definition of atheism to stand undisputed. Do none of you have any convictions? Are we going to let this just stand? I just don't get it. Speak up if you have any convictions whatsoever. Or is it just easier to sit idly by while nonsense is floated by?

Come to the dark side Mark...