LCMS Eucharist

[Lamb]

Off topic, but I saw this lamb online and took a screen shot of it because it’s adorbs. I’m not trying to copy you or anything.

I forgot to respond to this...I think it's awesome. Just in time for Easter too!

 

[Castle Church]

Others have already written the best answers, but I do want to say that I can empathize with you in regards to returning to the RCC. As a former Catholic, myself. The draw to return to the church that claims to have all the answers, and claims that with authority is strong.

Even when one knows or believes their theology or practices to be flawed, the pull is strong. There is a comfort in a church that has all their beliefs lined up, all of them written in the Catechism. But then, comfort is not necessarily where Truth is found.

Continue your study and asking questions here and in other places. Reach out to your pastor, and other Lutheran pastors if need be. The Lutheran church has a rich history and body of teachings to pull from, generally your questions can be answered, but it may take some searching.

 

[Faith]

That's correct. The Lutheran view of the Eucharist is similar to that of the Catholic Church and not at all in line with what some posters here have said when giving you their own understanding of the sacrament.

In other words, you are not asking about that issue but, rather, about the authority (or lack of it) that Christ invested in the priest/minister who consecrates the bread and wine..

The Catholic Church's answer is, of course, that only the "one true Church," was given that authority and theirs is it! So if that claim is not persuasive to you, what makes Lutheran pastors be authorized is that they were properly called and vested with this responsibility by a congregation of believers as is described in the New Testament.

Then how do Lutheran pastors confect the Eucharist? By the power of the Holy Spirit?

 

[Faith]

You are ASSUMING that the absurd, unbiblical claim of that Catholic priest is correct.

FIRST, he needs to prove that only a priest of that singular denomination who has "valid orders" in that one singular denomination can consecrate the elements. It's an egotistical, divisive, entirely baseless claim.







Yeah, everything in Catholicism seems to be about human POWER.



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I’ve once heard ( or read ) it said by, I think a different priest, that they don’t have the power but that God works through them or something.

 

[Faith]

Others have already written the best answers, but I do want to say that I can empathize with you in regards to returning to the RCC. As a former Catholic, myself. The draw to return to the church that claims to have all the answers, and claims that with authority is strong.

Even when one knows or believes their theology or practices to be flawed, the pull is strong. There is a comfort in a church that has all their beliefs lined up, all of them written in the Catechism. But then, comfort is not necessarily where Truth is found.

Continue your study and asking questions here and in other places. Reach out to your pastor, and other Lutheran pastors if need be. The Lutheran church has a rich history and body of teachings to pull from, generally your questions can be answered, but it may take some searching.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[Albion]

Then how do Lutheran pastors confect the Eucharist? By the power of the Holy Spirit?

It is God, of course, who makes this miracle possible, but the authority (or power if we want to put it that way) to perform the ceremony comes from Christ himself who established this sacrament at the Last Supper and directed his Apostles to continue to observe it after he was no longer with them in the flesh.

In time, they passed on that commission to others, as is indicated in Scripture, and both Scripture and history attest to the fact that congregations of the earliest Christians observed the sacred meal and that these congregations were the agents for calling men into the priesthood as well as running the other affairs of the local church.

The New Testament Church (the Christian churches) thus differ from the old Hebrew religious system in which all the priests were drawn from only one tribe of the Hebrews. This change is referred to in the NT verse which speaks of "the priesthood of all believers."

 

[Josiah]

I’ve once heard ( or read ) it said by, I think a different priest, that they don’t have the power but that God works through them or something.

Sure, they CLAIM that.... for self.... exclusively.... cuz they are Roman Catholic (and not Anglican or Orthodox or Lutheran). No one will deny that they CLAIM this remarkable power-grabbing, divisive claim for themselves exclusively. My issue is this: Is this claim TRUE? As a former Catholic, I found nothing that so suggests.... just a LOT of ego and a felt need to lift up self rather than others.


The THEOLOGY of Catholicism and Lutheranism is quite close regarding the Sacrament. It's VERY different regarding self.



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[Faith]

Sure, they CLAIM that.... for self.... exclusively.... cuz they are Roman Catholic (and not Anglican or Orthodox or Lutheran). No one will deny that they CLAIM this remarkable power-grabbing, divisive claim for themselves exclusively. My issue is this: Is this claim TRUE? As a former Catholic, I found nothing that so suggests.... just a LOT of ego and a felt need to lift up self rather than others.


The THEOLOGY of Catholicism and Lutheranism is quite close regarding the Sacrament. It's VERY different regarding self.



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So is it Biblical that the Lutheran or other a Protestant churches have the ability to, through the Trinity, confect the Host? In other words is there proof Biblically that the LCMS is also receiving Jesus, not just the RCC?

 

[Faith]

Sure, they CLAIM that.... for self.... exclusively.... cuz they are Roman Catholic (and not Anglican or Orthodox or Lutheran). No one will deny that they CLAIM this remarkable power-grabbing, divisive claim for themselves exclusively. My issue is this: Is this claim TRUE? As a former Catholic, I found nothing that so suggests.... just a LOT of ego and a felt need to lift up self rather than others.


The THEOLOGY of Catholicism and Lutheranism is quite close regarding the Sacrament. It's VERY different regarding self.



.



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Our Archdiocese is losing parishioners and there aren’t enough priests to fill the spaces where the older priests have retired….there aren’t enough priests to go around so there’s a new project underway to bring people back to Mass and to consolidate parishes and sharing of priests.

Then there’s my Lutheran Church where one of the pastors asked during a service how many people were formerly Catholic and a bunch of hands were raised.

 

[Albion]

So is it Biblical that the Lutheran or other a Protestant churches have the ability to, through the Trinity, confect the Host? In other words is there proof Biblically that the LCMS is also receiving Jesus, not just the RCC?

Question: What's the proof that Roman Catholic priests have that ability?

 

[Lamb]

Question: What's the proof that Roman Catholic priests have that ability?

The priests make that claim so they say it's so.

 

[Faith]

Question: What's the proof that Roman Catholic priests have that ability?

I do not know….just taking the word of a man who considers lying to be a sin.

 

[Faith]

The priests make that claim so they say it's so.

Exactly.

 

[Faith]

Question: What's the proof that Roman Catholic priests have that ability?

What’s the proof that LCMS pastors are able to do this?

 

[Josiah]

So is it Biblical that the Lutheran or other a Protestant churches have the ability to, through the Trinity, confect the Host? In other words is there proof Biblically that the LCMS is also receiving Jesus, not just the RCC?

There is no confect. Nothing is put together.

There is NOTHING in Scripture that states that only a priest with valid orders within the singular, particular denomination of The Catholic Church (or The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod) may or must consecrate the elements... or that only such makes for a valid Sacrament. Nothing. Not a word. Zilch. This is nothing more than an egotistical, divisive, power-grab of one denomination.

The "proof" that Jesus is received is in the words of institution. Not from some egotistical, baseless claim of the clergy of one denomination. The Words of Institution do NOT say "This is My Body - but only if the one consecrating the elements has valid orders from some diocese of the individual, particular Catholic denomination and it exclusively."



.

 

[Albion]

What’s the proof that LCMS pastors are able to do this?

I explained that in post #26.

My interest in this has been simply to help you make your decision for whichever one of the two churches you choose.

If you believe, as you answered in post #32, that you are "taking the word" of the Catholic priest concerning his own authority simply because that's what his church teaches, while at the same time you find nothing persuasive in the Scriptural basis for the belief system of the Lutheran pastor or the LCMS, then I have to suppose that you've already decided.

 

[Faith]

There is no confect. Nothing is put together.

There is NOTHING in Scripture that states that only a priest with valid orders within the singular, particular denomination of The Catholic Church (or The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod) may or must consecrate the elements... or that only such makes for a valid Sacrament. Nothing. Not a word. Zilch. This is nothing more than an egotistical, divisive, power-grab of one denomination.

The "proof" that Jesus is received is in the words of institution. Not from some egotistical, baseless claim of the clergy of one denomination. The Words of Institution do NOT say "This is My Body - but only if the one consecrating the elements has valid orders from some diocese of the individual, particular Catholic denomination and it exclusively."



.

What do you mean there is no confect? The host and wine are bread and wine before the priest or pastor says the words of institution, then they become Jesus’ body and blood.

 

[Faith]

I explained that in post #26.

My interest in this has been simply to help you make your decision for whichever one of the two churches you choose.

If you believe, as you answered in post #32, that you are "taking the word" of the Catholic priest concerning his own authority to be correct simply because that's what his church teaches; but at the same time, you find nothing persuasive in in the belief system of the Lutheran pastor or the LCMS, then I have to suppose that you've already decided.

Actually, I’ve decided to stay put. Just want to know if my new beliefs are true. Why is that so hard to understand?

 

[Albion]

What do you mean there is no confect? The host and wine are bread and wine before the priest or pastor says the words of institution, then they become Jesus’ body and blood.

To "confect" something is to assemble the parts or ingredients. That isn't what happens at Mass or at the Lutheran Eucharist.

 

[Faith]

To "confect" something is to assemble the parts or ingredients and make something new. That isn't what happens at Mass or at the Lutheran Eucharist.

That’s the word I’ve heard used many times. And it is making something new. It’s making ordinary bread and wine into Jesus and His blood.