Jesus will save you if you.... ???

MoreCoffee

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You know I don't believe in purgatory..
But do you believe that imperfect people here on earth die and are received into heaven as perfect people, cleansed of every fault, every sin, every inclination to sin? ... we believe that.
 

Lamb

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Who said Jesus isn't enough? I didn't. The difference is, I understand that we have a part to play also. We don't go to church and say the prayer to get saved and then tada! That's it, it's a done deal, the end of it.

That's where you and I see things differently. You see, I'm saved by grace through faith, not by anything I do or don't do. God saves me 100% and there is no part for me to play in order to receive salvation. The part I do is cooperate with the Holy Spirit in sanctification, but that's not justification, which is what I'm referring to when I say "salvation".

I also don't believe in saying a prayer for salvation. That's some other denominations.

Lutherans believe we can fall from faith, so we are not once saved always saved. We can fall away, and it's God who reels us back in. How many times does He do that? It's not said in scriptures.

We do not DO anything to contribute to salvation. We can live our lives because of salvation, but it doesn't add onto it like getting brownie points.
 

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But do you believe that imperfect people here on earth die and are received into heaven as perfect people, cleansed of every fault, every sin, every inclination to sin? ... we believe that.

Imperfect people here...

When we die, our spirit goes to heaven until Judgment Day and then we receive our new perfect bodies and live in the New Jerusalem. How can the spirit go to heaven and be with God? Because we are clothed in Christ's righteousness in our baptisms.
 

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To believe that you have to do something for your salvation means you believe in faith plus works.

I believe that it's not our works that save us or contribute, because scripture says that salvation is Jesus' work and we receive it by grace through faith.
 

MoreCoffee

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Imperfect people here...

When we die, our spirit goes to heaven until Judgment Day and then we receive our new perfect bodies and live in the New Jerusalem. How can the spirit go to heaven and be with God? Because we are clothed in Christ's righteousness in our baptisms.
To believe that you have to do something for your salvation means you believe in faith plus works.

I believe that it's not our works that save us or contribute, because scripture says that salvation is Jesus' work and we receive it by grace through faith.

Neither of those answers my question. (see below).

But do you believe that imperfect people here on earth die and are received into heaven as perfect people, cleansed of every fault, every sin, every inclination to sin? ... we believe that.
 

Edward429451

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That's where you and I see things differently. You see, I'm saved by grace through faith, not by anything I do or don't do. God saves me 100% and there is no part for me to play in order to receive salvation. The part I do is cooperate with the Holy Spirit in sanctification, but that's not justification, which is what I'm referring to when I say "salvation".

I also don't believe in saying a prayer for salvation. That's some other denominations.

Lutherans believe we can fall from faith, so we are not once saved always saved. We can fall away, and it's God who reels us back in. How many times does He do that? It's not said in scriptures.

We do not DO anything to contribute to salvation. We can live our lives because of salvation, but it doesn't add onto it like getting brownie points.

I am saved by grace through faith myself. The word says so, but I'm no Lutheran. I ask the holy Spirit to pick me a video to watch sometimes and He has never picked a Lutheran video. I understand that we have salvation doctrinal differences, but all you have to do is to read His word for yourself because it is all in there.

And the way it reads to me is to take on Christ's characteristics we must walk with Him, right? Aren't we supposed to cultivate a relationship with Jesus? I tink you are being short sighted in thinking you do not have to "do" anything. This has nothing to do with salvation, we don't have to bring that into the discussion. SO where are we? Oh yes, let's talk on Christ like characteristics so we shall walk with God and be led by the Spirit...Right or Wrong?

Amos 3:3
3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?.../KJV

We have to be in agreement with God's will for our lives in order to walk with Him. I've already shown that God's will is for you to forgive them that wronged you. So perhaps you should think this through again a wee bit more thoroughly?
 

Edward429451

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God said a lot of other things in scripture also! should we obey them?

Let your light shine before men. That's not a suggestion. The correct answer is, Yes, Lord. Does the Lord want you to forgive them? Then why wont you try at least?

Yes it takes effort. Maybe it wont keep you out of Heaven, but I think it might make some difference to if you get a Mansion or a shack by the edge of town?

It is written, Build up your Treasures in Heaven...What in the world does that mean?
 

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I am saved by grace through faith myself. The word says so, but I'm no Lutheran. I ask the holy Spirit to pick me a video to watch sometimes and He has never picked a Lutheran video. I understand that we have salvation doctrinal differences, but all you have to do is to read His word for yourself because it is all in there.

And the way it reads to me is to take on Christ's characteristics we must walk with Him, right? Aren't we supposed to cultivate a relationship with Jesus? I tink you are being short sighted in thinking you do not have to "do" anything. This has nothing to do with salvation, we don't have to bring that into the discussion. SO where are we? Oh yes, let's talk on Christ like characteristics so we shall walk with God and be led by the Spirit...Right or Wrong?

Amos 3:3
3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?.../KJV

We have to be in agreement with God's will for our lives in order to walk with Him. I've already shown that God's will is for you to forgive them that wronged you. So perhaps you should think this through again a wee bit more thoroughly?

This thread is about "Jesus will save you if you..."

You included works in your responses. I don't include works in mine. Works are done because the Holy Spirit is working IN ME, but my salvation is secured in Christ Jesus, His death on the cross and resurrection. I don't do anything for my salvation, and that's the point of this thread.
 

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Edward429451

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This thread is about "Jesus will save you if you..."

You included works in your responses. I don't include works in mine. Works are done because the Holy Spirit is working IN ME, but my salvation is secured in Christ Jesus, His death on the cross and resurrection. I don't do anything for my salvation, and that's the point of this thread.
Again, works have nothing to do with Salvation. I only included it as something some people say. Works having nothing to do with salvation doesn't mean that we don't do the Lord's work. You seem to hold the position of, I don't have to...But if you got a job they would tell you to do things. If you always said no they might fire you?
Once someone joins the military they start telling you what to do. If you tell them no, you get to go home (Maybe!)

Same thing with the Lord. Jesus will save you if you, Repent and be baptized or do the Lutherans have a different protocol for getting saved? You do agree that we must repent from our sins, don't you?
 

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Again, works have nothing to do with Salvation.

That's how you should have just started here in this thread :)

Works having nothing to do with salvation doesn't mean that we don't do the Lord's work. You seem to hold the position of, I don't have to...But if you got a job they would tell you to do things.

But that's not the point of this thread, and I keep trying to tell you that. And, I do believe that we do things for God, but it doesn't contribute to our salvation.

Same thing with the Lord. Jesus will save you if you, Repent and be baptized or do the Lutherans have a different protocol for getting saved? You do agree that we must repent from our sins, don't you?

God repents us. Have you heard that saying?
 

Edward429451

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God repents us. Have you heard that saying?

Nope, I never heard that before.

I thought Repent means to turn away from our sin and stop doing it! God can't do that for us.

Instead of playing 20 questions with me about Jesus will save you If...why not tell me what Lutherans believe? What you Believe? That should have been in your first post, lol.
 

MoreCoffee

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I absolutely answered your questions.
At least you think you did. ...

I like that you affirm the hope of heaven and the sufficiency of Christ’s work.

In the first reply that I quoted, the idea that our spirit goes to heaven immediately because we are “clothed in Christ’s righteousness in our baptisms” is certainly close to Catholic theology, but it oversimplifies the process. Catholic Dogmatics teaches that baptism does indeed cleanse us of original sin and incorporate us into Christ, but it does not guarantee immediate entrance into heaven upon death. The Church affirms the reality of purgatory—a state of purification for those who die in God’s grace but still need to be cleansed of venial sins or temporal punishment due to sin (cf. CCC 1030–1031). So while baptism initiates our life in grace, it doesn’t eliminate the need for ongoing sanctification.

The second reply that I quoted introduces a Lutheran framing: that any notion of “doing something” for salvation implies a rejection of grace. But Catholic Dogmatics explicitly rejects the idea that works are opposed to grace. The Council of Trent teaches that while we are justified by grace alone, our cooperation with that grace—through good works, sacraments, and obedience—is part of the process of salvation (cf. CCC 1987–1995). Works don’t earn salvation, but they are the fruit of living faith. As James says, “faith without works is dead” (James 2:17), and the Church teaches that we are “further justified” as we grow in righteousness through grace-enabled works.

So when my post (the third quote) affirms that we are received into heaven as perfected people, it expresses Catholic belief in the transformative power of grace. But your first reply bypasses purgatory, and second reply seems to deny the role of sanctification altogether. That’s where the tension lies: Catholic theology holds that salvation is a gift, yes—yet it is one that we must cooperate with, not merely receive passively.

And besides, my intention is to observe that Lutherans (in fact Protestants in general) believe that an imperfect man or woman is transformed into a perfected man or woman in the trip from earthly life to heavenly life, and I contend that even if Protestants think of that transformation as instantaneous it nevertheless is a final cleansing that enables the imperfect to become perfect, as the scriptures observe when speaking about the resurrection in First Corinthians chapter fifteen.
 

jswauto

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I have no idea what you're trying to say, or ask, in relation to my post.

Could you try wording it differently or otherwise explain what you mean? I seem to be having difficulty relating your post to mine.
Sorry, just explaining the devastating effects of unforgiveness and comparing it to anxiety.
 
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