Jesus will save you if you.... ???

[Lamb]

What are your thoughts on churches that preach that Jesus will only save you if YOU do something, pray something, give something, etc...?

 

[Frankj]

That's a good question, how to evaluate it is going to be very POV dependent.

For me it usually boils down to the fruit of the tree thing with the lives of the congregation being the fruit of the teaching of the Church in question.

How do the lives of the Congregation differ from the lives of the seculars around them?

Do they have strong families and purity in marriage or do they mirror the secular world in things like divorce and remarriage, adultery and fornication with sexual relations starting in teenage years and having no relation to marriage, do they send their children to private Christian schools to be raised up in the way they should go or to public schools where they are taught every abomination listed in the Bible and encouraged, even sometimes required, to practice them, etc.. etc., etc.

For the most part, this is how I see things and how I evaluate a church and its teachings above everything else.

But that's my part of the elephant, others will be touching other parts and think differently.

May the Lord bless and guide all of us this day.

 

[Lamb]

That's a good question, how to evaluate it is going to be very POV dependent.

For me it usually boils down to the fruit of the tree thing with the lives of the congregation being the fruit of the teaching of the Church in question.

How do the lives of the Congregation differ from the lives of the seculars around them?

Do they have strong families and purity in marriage or do they mirror the secular world in things like divorce and remarriage, adultery and fornication with sexual relations starting in teenage years and having no relation to marriage, do they send their children to private Christian schools to be raised up in the way they should go or to public schools where they are taught every abomination listed in the Bible and encouraged, even sometimes required, to practice them, etc.. etc., etc.

For the most part, this is how I see things and how I evaluate a church and its teachings above everything else.

But that's my part of the elephant, others will be touching other parts and think differently.

May the Lord bless and guide all of us this day.

How do your beliefs differ from having works in your life to save you?

 

[Frankj]

My works are done in servitude to God to his glory, out of love for him as my master, not to earn anything from him in return.

 

[Lanman87]

The only thing we MUST do is believe/have faith.

My thoughts on churches who preach believe/faith plus something is that they don't understand the gospel of grace and have created a type of law that must be followed in order to find forgiveness or please God.

I say that meaning that faith isn't just intellectual assent. Faith is a miraculous gift of God that changes a persons heart to love God and others in a way humans aren't capable of loving without the gift of the Holy Spirit, which then changes the persons actions so they act on the love God has given them.

 

[BruceLeiter]

My works are done in servitude to God to his glory, out of love for him as my master, not to earn anything from him in return.

I used to be a slave in servitude to my good works until God made me his adopted son in the present and to be completed in the future when Jesus returns, according to the Apostle Paul:

Rom_8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”
Rom_8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

 

[Frankj]

I used to be a slave in servitude to my good works until God made me his adopted son in the present and to be completed in the future when Jesus returns, according to the Apostle Paul:

Rom_8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”
Rom_8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

Is this to say God is not your master? That you do not serve him?

 

[jswauto]

The Bible is pretty clear on this!

John 14:

6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Romans 11:

6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.

Romans 10:

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Acts 16:

31 Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

 

[Edward429451]

Isn't there like 5 steps to Salvation?

Hear the Gospel word of God.
Belief in Jesus Christ.
Repenting of Sins.
Confessing Jesus as Lord.
Being Baptized which proclaims Jesus is your Lord to the World.

So it isn't just because you said the sinners prayer. You have to believe in Jesus first. And in the Greek, the word Believe has an action connotation with it. You walk in it.

And it says all through scripture, Repent from your sins and be saved! Over and over. So we have to repent. What does Repent really mean? To turn away from your sins. You know what they are! Stop it. A man can not serve two Masters.

So none of those things cost money, so it is a free gift. So it's not like you can go to church on Sunday and get saved through the sinners prayer, then go home to drugs or living in fornication and all that, then go around saying' I'm saved, praise he Lord." So it does take effort so is not free in that sense. Either you're serious about making Jesus your Lord, or your not.

 

[jswauto]

When you allow the Lord to work through you, you can accomplish very amazing things!

When you do things for the church with the hopes of Salvation, that is a deception.

 

[Edward429451]

When you allow the Lord to work through you, you can accomplish very amazing things!

When you do things for the church with the hopes of Salvation, that is a deception.

It is a deception, and that's putting the cart before the horse. You should Believe first, in faith (without seeing)

It always makes me smile when someone says, I want to see proof that God exists, then I can have faith in Him, and that aint right. We have to look to what we can not see. We have Faith in God, and Hope. But if one sees before they have Faith, then it isn't Faith anymore! Because we can see it and prove it. No faith in seeing it. No, we are to have hope in what we can not see and Believe in it and Him so act on it, walk in it, do it every day. There is your Faith.

When scripture says, for those with eyes to see, it doesn't mean our physical eyes. When scripture says listen for those who have ears to hear, that doesn't mean you use your fleshly senses to hear what He is saying! It's actually easy once you get used to it.

You have to forget all of your worldly intellect and listen to the unseen and unheard, see with the eyes of your heart.

Eons ago, I didn't see any evidence for God. But after I was (facing Death) I reached for the unseen and said Lord be with me! And He was...I learned to set aside my intellect and to look for myself. And suddenly, I see God's Fingerprints Every Where!

Think about it. The Lord Created everything and we the branches of the Lord's Vine. All of creation. Nothing made by God can live apart of it's creator. And we know that in the flesh we have been lied to about everything for our whole life. So assume that your intellect is wrong and that God is right.

But it has to be done unseen with no proof. In absolute faith. Proof? There's God's Fingerprints right there! I can't make a Tree! Can you? So it takes a bit of a different perspective.

 

[MoreCoffee]

What are your thoughts on churches that preach that Jesus will only save you if YOU do something, pray something, give something, etc...?

I'd be concerned about churches that make salvation sound transactional. Catholic teaching emphasizes that salvation is God's gift through Christ, not something we earn. While I believe faith should be lived out through prayer and service, these are responses to God's grace, not payments for it.

 

[Frankj]

I'd be concerned about churches that make salvation sound transactional. Catholic teaching emphasizes that salvation is God's gift through Christ, not something we earn. While I believe faith should be lived out through prayer and service, these are responses to God's grace, not payments for it.

What is the Catholic understanding of "Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us"?

 

[BruceLeiter]

Is this to say God is not your master? That you do not serve him?

God is my personal friend, adoptive Father, my divine Boss, my Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier, my 3-in-1 Rescuer--all of those biblical roles. Sure, I serve him by seeking his advice and counsel every step of my way. (See the book What God Has Done: My True, Dramatic God-Biography [Amazon].)