Is the Pope as he claims “God on Earth”.

Josiah

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If you check the around the fifth paragraph down it says "But since We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty"


The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth


Guess you didn't read what you posted.... because you proved me correct.


NOWHERE has the Catholic Church EVER even claimed that their Pope is God on Earth.


Both of these deal with authority withing the denomination. Yes, VERY conditionally, he has divine AUTHORITY but that's a whole other enchilada. I suspect in your denomination too, there is some final authority unless of course in your denomination, anyone can believe and do and teach ANYTHING they want and that's all perfectly okay with the denomination. If some leader in your denomination said the Catholic Pope is infallible, that Purgatory is a dogmatic fact, that Transubstantiation is dogmatically true and that everyone should have sex with everyone as often as they can, would that be okay with the SDA? IF not, then you have some binding authority in your denomination.... and the RCC has not prevented that.

Now, I'll admit, some Catholics have been sloppy in how this is worded, but it is NOT the position of the RCC that the Pope IS "God on Earth." And you've offered nothing official (say from the Catechism) to support that.
 

hobie

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Look a little deeper, we see in Revelation the beast that speaks blasphemies against God and make war on His saints.
Revelation 13
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

In Daniel we are told that the little horn also speaks blasphemies against the Most High.
Daniel 7
1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.
2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

We see repeatedly Roman Catholic sources refer to the popes as vicars of Christ, vice-regents of Christ, representatives of Christ, Vicars of the Son of God, etc. Furthermore, the popes have claimed the right to exercise the power and prerogatives that belong only to God.

But even more, they claim to have the right to forgive sins, to set up and remove kings, to be bowed down to, to be called Holy Father, to execute the death penalty or make war upon dissenters, to change the Sabbath, to change God’s prophetic calendar, to be the supreme judges of heaven, earth and hell whose decision cannot be appealed, and to be infallible expositors in matters of faith and morals.

Look what scripture says..
Mark 2:7
7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Daniel 2:21
21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

Revelation 19:10
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Matthew 23:9
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Daniel 7:25
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

John 5:22
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

James 1:17
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
 

Josiah

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Look a little deeper, we see in Revelation the beast that speaks blasphemies against God and make war on His saints.
Revelation 13
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

In Daniel we are told that the little horn also speaks blasphemies against the Most High.
Daniel 7
1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.
2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

We see repeatedly Roman Catholic sources refer to the popes as vicars of Christ, vice-regents of Christ, representatives of Christ, Vicars of the Son of God, etc. Furthermore, the popes have claimed the right to exercise the power and prerogatives that belong only to God.

But even more, they claim to have the right to forgive sins, to set up and remove kings, to be bowed down to, to be called Holy Father, to execute the death penalty or make war upon dissenters, to change the Sabbath, to change God’s prophetic calendar, to be the supreme judges of heaven, earth and hell whose decision cannot be appealed, and to be infallible expositors in matters of faith and morals.

Look what scripture says..
Mark 2:7
7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Daniel 2:21
21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

Revelation 19:10
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Matthew 23:9
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Daniel 7:25
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

John 5:22
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

James 1:17
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.



None of this proves that the Catholic Church regards the Pope AS GOD. On Earth or anywhere...

Or that the Catholic Church doesn't permit other denominations to have authority within themselves...
 
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None of this proves that the Catholic Church regards the Pope AS GOD. On Earth or anywhere...

Or that the Catholic Church doesn't permit other denominations to have authority within themselves...

We have to be careful, as when we don't know, God can wink at our ignorance. But when God plainly shows us the truth, what then....
 

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Look a little deeper, we see in Revelation the beast that speaks blasphemies against God and make war on His saints.
Revelation 13
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

In Daniel we are told that the little horn also speaks blasphemies against the Most High.
Daniel 7
1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.
2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

We see repeatedly Roman Catholic sources refer to the popes as vicars of Christ, vice-regents of Christ, representatives of Christ, Vicars of the Son of God, etc. Furthermore, the popes have claimed the right to exercise the power and prerogatives that belong only to God.

But even more, they claim to have the right to forgive sins, to set up and remove kings, to be bowed down to, to be called Holy Father, to execute the death penalty or make war upon dissenters, to change the Sabbath, to change God’s prophetic calendar, to be the supreme judges of heaven, earth and hell whose decision cannot be appealed, and to be infallible expositors in matters of faith and morals.

Look what scripture says..
Mark 2:7
7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Daniel 2:21
21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

Revelation 19:10
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Matthew 23:9
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Daniel 7:25
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

John 5:22
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

James 1:17
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Revelation reads like what today we would call a political cartoon, the pre nicene church fathers had their own opinion on who the beast and his mark was.. It's no surprise that they also figured it was the "latin speaking" men who were infiltrating the church yet they weren't so bold to officially declare it because they would be announcing "forebearing" the anti-Christ like how John announced Jesus Christ.. We see today that this mega political/religious beastly structure (RCC) is still in speculation as the beast, but to declare it so would be to "have his name" or identify it..
The question is does the Pope today believe he is God on Earth?
No he doesn't, and those early Popes who claimed they were God on earth is what the RCC would call now "a false shepard"..

The Papacy is an old ghost of circumstance, and I suppose could be considered plural antichrists but not a lone Antichrist... does Revelation state that the "cardinal" number 666 are those who follow a perpetual present AntiChrist or one who is still to come?
 
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hobie

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Revelation reads like what today we would call a political cartoon, the pre nicene church fathers had their own opinion on who the beast and his mark was.. It's no surprise that they also figured it was the "latin speaking" men who were infiltrating the church yet they weren't so bold to officially declare it because they would be announcing "forebearing" the anti-Christ like how John announced Jesus Christ.. We see today that this mega political/religious beastly structure (RCC) is still in speculation as the beast, but to declare it so would be to "have his name" or identify it..
The question is does the Pope today believe he is God on Earth?
No he doesn't, and those early Popes who claimed they were God on earth is what the RCC would call now "a false shepard"..

The Papacy is an old ghost of circumstance, and I suppose could be considered plural antichrists but not a lone Antichrist... does Revelation state that the "cardinal" number 666 are those who follow a perpetual present AntiChrist or one who is still to come?

Well, if it were that plain, then nobody would ask the question, but essentially yes, but one has to understand what prophecy is presenting. In Revelation, John was shown in vision that worship is the root cause of the controversy between Christ and Satan. In Revelation 12, John describes how that the conflict over worship began in heaven when Michael and his angels fought and defeated the dragon (Satan) and his angels, both of whom were thrown down to the earth.

After his expulsion from heaven, Satan made this earth his theater of his operations, using all his resources to suppress the worship and worshippers of the true God, promoting instead the false worship of himself, through the unholy power, represented by the dragon, the sea-beast, and the land-beast.

The conflict starts to rise and show who the religious/political entity of the Antichrist is in Revelation 13, where Satan, represented by the Dragon, empowers the beast to enforce its false worship which is symbolized by a mark, a name, which is represented by the number 666, on the foreheads and hands of their followers. Thus, we can see the mark, name, and number of the beast, represent the nature of the false worship promoted by them, whether in the mind (forehead) or actions (hands) of the followers.

The key issue in the final conflict is the proper worship of God. John's prophecy about the mark and number of the beast, calls for believers to recognize the global false worship promoted by the Dragon through the beast which has a man as its head, as we see in the Papacy, promoting this false worship all the way to the end, where they finally are destroyed.

So you have the true worship of God, and the false worship of the Dragon and the Beast power and its supporters. Now the question which now presents itself is did the Papacy claim to have the authority to change the time and law for the proper worship of God? I think we can see here where the Beast shows itself as the Antichrist power...
 
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hobie

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Guess you didn't read what you posted.... because you proved me correct.


NOWHERE has the Catholic Church EVER even claimed that their Pope is God on Earth.


Both of these deal with authority withing the denomination. Yes, VERY conditionally, he has divine AUTHORITY but that's a whole other enchilada. I suspect in your denomination too, there is some final authority unless of course in your denomination, anyone can believe and do and teach ANYTHING they want and that's all perfectly okay with the denomination. If some leader in your denomination said the Catholic Pope is infallible, that Purgatory is a dogmatic fact, that Transubstantiation is dogmatically true and that everyone should have sex with everyone as often as they can, would that be okay with the SDA? IF not, then you have some binding authority in your denomination.... and the RCC has not prevented that.

Now, I'll admit, some Catholics have been sloppy in how this is worded, but it is NOT the position of the RCC that the Pope IS "God on Earth." And you've offered nothing official (say from the Catechism) to support that.
This seems to have a good list...
"The Pope is not simply the representative of Jesus Christ. On the contrary, he is Jesus Christ Himself, under the veil of the flesh." (Evangelical Christendom, January 1, 1895, pg. 15, published in London by J. S. Phillips)

"Against this background of love towards Holy Church, 'the pillar and bulwark of the truth' (1 Tim 3:15), we readily understand the devotion of Saint Francis of Assisi for 'THE LORD POPE', the daughterly outspokenness of Saint Catherine of Siena towards the one whom she called 'SWEET CHRIST ON EARTH'." (Pope John Paul II, Apostolic Exhortation on the Consecrated Life and Its Mission in the Church and in the World, to the bishops and clergy, religious orders and congregations, societies of apostolic life, secular institutes, and all the faithful, given in Rome, at Saint Peter's, March 25, 1996)

"The Pope is of so great dignity, and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God and the vicar of God." (Ferraris Ecclesiastical dictionary)

"All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope." (On the Authority of the Councils, book 2, chapter 17)

"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth." (Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, "Cities Petrus Bertanous)

"To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical." (the Gloss "Extravagantes" o.f Pope John XXII Cum inter, Tit. XIV, Cap. IV. Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium, Paris, 1685)

"Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions." (Ferraris, «Prompta Bibliotheca», 1763, Volume VI, 'Papa II', p.26)

"The Saviour Himself is the door of the sheepfold: 'I am the door of the sheep.' Into this fold of Jesus Christ, no man may enter unless he be led by the Sovereign Pontiff; and only if they be united to him can men be saved, for the Roman Pontiff is the Vicar of Christ and His personal representative on earth." (Pope John XXIII in his homily to the Bishops and faithful assisting at his coronation on November 4, 1958)

"This is our last lesson to you: receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God's commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church; the strong and effective instrument of salvation is none other than the Roman Pontificate." (Pope Leo XIII, Allocution for the 25th anniversary of his election, February 20, 1903; Papal Teachings: The Church, Benedictine Monks of Solesmes, St. Paul Editions, Boston, 1962, par. 653)"..http://www.the-bible-antichrist.com/antichrist-speaks.html
 

hobie

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And lets look to a neutral source on the 'infallibility' of the 'Bishop of Rome'...
Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church that states that, in virtue of the promise of Jesus to Peter, the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error "when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church."[1] Infallibility is, according to the New Catholic Encyclopedia, "more than a simple, de facto absence of error. It is a positive perfection, ruling out the possibility of error".[2]

This doctrine was defined dogmatically at the First Ecumenical Council of the Vatican of 1869–1870 in the document Pastor aeternus, but had been defended before that, existing already in medieval theology and being the majority opinion at the time of the Counter-Reformation.[3]...Papal infallibility - Wikipedia

Where does the Pope get this doctrine, its not in scripture, and you cant just declare you have the power of God which is not sanctioned.

Well, as I was looking for what scripture says and found nothing, but came across something elsewhere on the issue, this interesting take on the Popes infallibility, interesting reading to say the least...
"...we are responsible as Catholics to understand, not only what the Church teaches, but what the Church doesn't teach to help clear up these misconceptions. The Church teaches in a simple summary that the Holy Father, the Pope, the Bishop of Rome, as the successor to Peter and the Vicar of Christ, when he speaks as the universal teacher from the Chair of Peter in defining faith and morals does so with an infallible charism or an infallible gift through the Holy Spirit so that we can give to him the full assent of our intellect and our will, and we can hear the voice of Christ coming to us through the voice of the Pope when he is speaking in this capacity. "..Dr Scott Hahn on the Papacy | Catholic-Pages.com
 

Josiah

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Hobie,

You have pulled some isolated quotes out of context. The Catholic Church teaches that the pope is Christ's representative on earth, he is the "VICAR" of Christ - not literally Christ. Okay, if you look really, really, really, really hard and long, you can find some "shortcuts" poorly worded, but the teaching is that he is the VICAR of Christ, not Christ.

And yes, there is the doctrine that he can be "inerrant." However, this is not by virtue of who he is but of his office; he MIGHT be infallible if he speaks "ex cathredra" in other words, by virtue of the office, not his person. And even then, what he says must be accepted teaching of the Catholic Church (he can't invent stuff, only AFFIRM teachings already in place in the RCC), the very rare times this happens (it happened once in the 20th Century and not once in the 21st), nothing new resulted, he simply "settled" it and made the teaching beyond debate.

Too bad our site doesn't have any active, current Catholics to rebuke the old, tired, WRONG anti-Catholicism you regurgitate. But some of us are former Catholics and easily see though the absurdity of your old, tired lies that anti-Catholics regurgitate without concern for truth. There is plenty that IS wrong in that denomination, there's no need to endlessly repeat lies.


- Josiah (formerally Catholic)


PS Given a choice between JW and RCC, I'd go with the Catholic Church.... at least it affirms the Creeds and Ecumenical Councils, at least it embraces the Trinity and Two Natures of Christ.




.
 

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Hobie,

You have pulled some isolated quotes out of context. The Catholic Church teaches that the pope is Christ's representative on earth, he is the "VICAR" of Christ - not literally Christ. Okay, if you look really, really, really, really hard and long, you can find some "shortcuts" poorly worded, but the teaching is that he is the VICAR of Christ, not Christ.

And yes, there is the doctrine that he can be "inerrant." However, this is not by virtue of who he is but of his office; he MIGHT be infallible if he speaks "ex cathredra" in other words, by virtue of the office, not his person. And even then, what he says must be accepted teaching of the Catholic Church (he can't invent stuff, only AFFIRM teachings already in place in the RCC), the very rare times this happens (it happened once in the 20th Century and not once in the 21st), nothing new resulted, he simply "settled" it and made the teaching beyond debate.

Too bad our site doesn't have any active, current Catholics to rebuke the old, tired, WRONG anti-Catholicism you regurgitate. But some of us are former Catholics and easily see though the absurdity of your old, tired lies that anti-Catholics regurgitate without concern for truth. There is plenty that IS wrong in that denomination, there's no need to endlessly repeat lies.


- Josiah (formerally Catholic)


PS Given a choice between JW and RCC, I'd go with the Catholic Church.... at least it affirms the Creeds and Ecumenical Councils, at least it embraces the Trinity and Two Natures of Christ.




.
Well lets check on that...

"(Latin Vicarius Christi).

A title of the pope implying his supreme and universal primacy, both of honour and of jurisdiction, over the Church of Christ."
Catholic Encyclopedia > V > Vicar of Christ http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15403b.htm
 

Josiah

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Hobie, thank you for the reference, proving my point correct and you so very wrong. The Catholic Church considers him to be the VICAR of Christ, NOT in any sense, in any way, the Christ. Yes, he is "supreme" over other bishops but it does not say the RCC pope is supreme over Christ or equal to Christ.
 

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Now here are some interesting quotes from not just one source but a wide variety with the sources noted for anyone to check the context, but I dont think it will be necessary once you read them....

The penetration of the religion of Babylon became so general and well known that Rome was called the "New Babylon." -Faith of our fathers 1917 ed. Cardinal Gibbons, p. 106

"Confiding then in the power of Christianity to resist the infection of evil, and to transmute the instruments and appendages of demon worship to an evangelical use... the rulers of the church from early times were prepared should occasion arise, to adopt, or imitate, or sanction the existing rites and customs of the (Pagan) populace." -Development of Christian Doctrine, Cardinal Newman. p. 372

Actually, it would befar more accurate if he said, "Catholicism is only a sect of the Mithraists." The true Remnant Christians of today would never do such things as this. As Revelation 14:4 puts it, the true Church of Christ is not defiled by these women (churches)

"We know that Mithraism was a state religion of Rome at the time that the Christian church was established there. Evidently tenants of Mithraism such as Sunday worship and eating the wafer in the mass were adopted into Christianity at that time" -Jim Arrabito "666 & the Mark"

In Stanley's History, page 40: "The popes filled the place of the vacant emperors at Rome, inheriting their power, their prestige, and their titles from PAGANISM."

"The removal of the capital of the Empire from Rome to Constantinople in 330, left the Western Church, practically free from imperial power, to develop its own form of organization. The Bishop of Rome, in the seat of the Caesars, was now the greatest man in the West, and was soon [when the barbarians over-ran the empire] forced to become the political as well as the spiritual head."--A.C. Flick, The Rise of the Mediaval Church p. 168.

"Whatever Roman elements the barbarians and Aryans left . . . [came] under the protection of the Bishop of Rome, who was the chief person there after the Emperor's disappearance . . . The Roman Church in this way privily pushed itself into the place of the Roman World-Empire, of which it is the actual continuation; the empire has not perished, but has only undergone a transformation . . . It [the Catholic Church] is a political creation, and as imposing as a World-Empire, because [it is a continuation of] the Roman Empire. The Pope, who calls himself 'King' and 'Pontifex Maximus' [the title of the Roman Emperor in the time of Christ], is Caesar's successor."--Adolf Harnack, What is Christianity? 1963, pp. 269-270.

"Long ages ago, when Rome through the neglect of the Western emperors was left to the mercy of the barbarous hordes, the Romans turned to one figure for aid and protection, and asked him to rule them; and thus, . . . commenced the temporal sovereignty of the popes. And meekly stepping to the throne of Caesar, the vicar of Christ took up the scepter to which the emperors and kings of Europe were to bow in reverence through so many ages."--American Catholic Quarterly Review, April, 1911.

[Speaking of the time, about 500 A.D., when the Roman Empire was crumbling to pieces:] "No, the [Catholic] Church will not descend into the tomb. It will survive the Empire . . . At length a second empire will arise, and of this empire the Pope will be the master--more then this, he will be the master of Europe. He will dictate his orders to kings who will obey them"--Andrea Lagarde, The Latin Church in the Middle Ages, 1915, p. vi.
 

hobie

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History unveils what and where the origin of it comes from...

Cardinal Newman lists many examples of things of "pagan origin" which the papacy brought into the church "in order to recommend the new religion to the heathen: He stated, "in order to recommend the new religion to the heathen:" "The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; holy water; asylums [hermitages, monasteries and convents]; [pagan] holy-days, processions, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images, . . . and the Kyrie Eleison."--Cardinal J. H. Newman, An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, 1920 edition, p.373 [Roman Catholic].

Cardinal Newman admits in his book that; the "The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holydays and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields; sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, ...the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison, are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church. {374}" -An Essay on the The Development of the Christian Doctrine John Henry "Cardinal Newman" p.359 (Also see According to Dr. E. D. Clarke, Travels, vol. i. p. 352.)

"The [Catholic] Church took the pagan philosophy and made it the buckler of faith against the heathen. She took the pagan Roman Pantheon, temple of all the gods, and made it sacred to all the martyrs; so it stands to this day. She took the pagan Sunday and made it the Christian Sunday. She took the pagan Easter and made it the feast we celebrate during this season . . . The Sun was a foremost god with heathendom . . . The sun has worshipers at this hour in Persia and other lands . . . Hence the Church would seem to say, 'Keep that old pagan name [Sunday]. It shall remain consecrated, sanctified.' And thus the pagan Sunday, dedicated to Balder, became the Christian Sunday, sacred to Jesus"--William L. Gildea, "Paschale Gaudium," in The Catholic World, 58, March, 1894, p. 809 [A Roman Catholic weekly].

"The mighty Catholic Church was little more then the Roman Empire baptized."-- A. C, Flick, The Rise of the Mediaeval Church, 1909 edition, p. 148.

From ancient Babylon came the cult of the virgin mother-goddess, who was worshiped as the highest of gods--see S. H. Langdon, Semitic Mythology, 1931 edition.

This worship was taken over as Mary-worship by Rome. Heathen sun-worship on Sunday was likewise adopted by the Roman apostasy.

"In order to attach to Christianity great attraction in the eyes of the nobility, the priests adopted the outer garments and adornments which were used in pagan cults." -Life of Constantine, Eusabius, cited in Altai-Nimalaya, p. 94

"The Church did everything it could to stamp out such 'pagan' rites, but had to capitualet and allow the rites to continue with only the name of the local diety changed to some Christian saint's name." -Religious Tradition and Myth. Dr. Edwin Goodenough, Professor of Religion, Harvard University. p. 56, 57

"From the foregoing, which treats merely of the more important solar festivals, it is clear that these products of paganism are as much in force at present ... as they ever were, and that Christianity countenances, and in many cases has actually adopted and practiced, pagan rites whose heathen significance is merely lost sight of because attention is not called tot the source whence these rites have sprung. So heavy was this infiltration that Sir Samuel Dill exclaims: "Christianity is only a sect of the Mithraists." -Roman Society from Nero to Marcus Aurelius, p. VII

"In short, sun worship, symbolically speaking, lies at the very heart of the great festivals which the Christian Church celebrates today, and these relics of heathen religion have, through the medium of their sacred rites, curiously enough blended with practices and beliefs utterly antagonistic to the spirit which prompted them." -Sun Lore of All Ages, Olcott, p. 248

"When the zealots of the primitave Christian Church sought to Christianize paganism, the pagan initiates retorted with a powerful effort to paganize Christianity. The Christians failed but the pagans succeeded. With the decline of paganism the initiated pagan hierophants transferred their base of operations to the new vehicle of primitive Christianity, adopting the symbols of the new cult to conceal those eternal verities which are ever the priceless possession of the wise." -The secret teachings of all ages, Manley P. Hall p. CLXXXV

The Christians failed because Christ would have no agreement with such error. He would never sanction mixing truth with error. Deuteronomy 12:29-32 confirms that perfectly!

"...The world, cloaked with a form of righteousness, walked into the church. Now the work of corruption rapidly progressed. Paganism, while appearing to be vanquished, became the conqueror. Her spirit controlled the church. Her doctrines, ceremonies, and superstitions were incorporated into the faith and worship of the professed followers of Christ." Ellen G.White, -The Great Controversy, p. 50

"The belief in miracle-working objects, talismans, amulets, and formulas was dear to Christianity, and they were received from pagan antiquity . . . The vestments of the clergy and the papal title of 'pontifex maximus' were legacies from pagan Rome. The [Catholic] Church found that rural converts still revered certain springs, wells, trees, and stones; she thought it wiser to bless these to Christian use then to break too sharply the customs of sentiment . . . Pagan festivals dear to the people, reappeared as Christian feasts, and pagan rites were transformed into Christian liturgy . . . The Christian calendar of saints replaced the Roman 'fasti' [gods]; ancient divinities dear to the people were allowed to revive under the names of 'Christian saints' . . . Gradually the tenderest features of Astarte, Cybele, Artemis, Diana, and Isis were gathered together in the worship of Mary"--Wil Durant, The Age of Faith, 1950, pp. 745-746.

Langdon tells us that Mary worship came from ancient Babylon where the virgin mother-goddess was worshiped under the name "Ishtar." Elsewhere in the Near East, the mother-goddess was called "Astarte, Ashtoreth, Persephone, Artemis, [Diana] of Ephesus, Venus, and Isis." This goddess, considered to be greater than any god, was called by these heathen the "virgin mother, merciful mother, Queen of Heaven, and my lady" [which is what "Madonna" means in Italian]. Langdon says she was often sculptured in mother-and-infant images, or as a "mater dolorom" [sorrowful mother] interceding for men with a wrathful god. And thus ancient paganism was brought into the churches and lives of Christians.--see S.H. Langdon, Semitic Mythology, 1931 edition, pp. 12-34, 108-111, 341-344.

Laing mentions several other corruptions by which the mother-goddess was worshiped by heathens, that Rome adopted into Christianity: holy water, votive offerings, elevation of sacred objects [lifting of the host], the priest's bells, the decking of images, processions, festivals, prayers for the dead, the worship of relics and the statues of saints.--see Gordon J. Laing, Survivals of Roman Religion, 1931 edition, pp. 92-95, 123-131,238-241.

Two dominant elements brought into Christianity from paganism by Rome were Sun worship symbols and the religious practices of ancient Babylon] "The solar theology of the Chaldaeans [Babylonians], had decisive effect . . . [upon the] final form reached by the religion of the pagan Semites, and following them, by that of the Romans when [the Roman emperor] Aurelian, the conqueror of Palmyra, had raised 'Sol Invictus' [the invincible sun-god] to the rank of supreme divinity in the Empire"--The Cambridge Ancient History, vol. 11, pp. 643, 646-647. From Palmyra he transferred to the new sanctuary the images of Helios [the sun-god] and Bel, the malaise patron god of Babylon--see Cumont, The Oriental Religions In Roman Paganism, 1911 edition, pp. 114-115, 124.
 

Josiah

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Now here are some interesting quotes from not just one source but a wide variety with the sources noted for anyone to check the context, but I dont think it will be necessary once you read them....


Catholicism does NOT consider the Pope to be God.

Your quotes - taken together - prove that.

IMO, what you seem to occasionally post is just false anti-Catholicism. And I find it repulsive.




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Catholicism does NOT consider the Pope to be God.

Your quotes - taken together - prove that.

IMO, what you seem to occasionally post is just false anti-Catholicism. And I find it repulsive.




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So the historians and scholars somehow united to write all these things out of thin air. I think that is in most peoples opinion, incorrect. But everyone is free to look into history and decide for themselves..
 

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So the historians and scholars somehow united to write all these things out of thin air.

Well, the fact is that "the historians and scholars" DID NOT unite behind that mistake of yours.

Much can be said--and justifiably so--that is critical of Roman Catholic history and teaching, but the claim of the Pope supposedly saying or thinking he is God on Earth is a false charge. As a matter of fact, not even the first sentence of your original post, which lays out the charge, actually says what you want us to think it does!
 

Josiah

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So the historians and scholars somehow united to write all these things out of thin air. I think that is in most peoples opinion, incorrect. But everyone is free to look into history and decide for themselves..

The Catholic Church has never claimed that the Pope is God.



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Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church that states that, in virtue of the promise of Jesus to Peter, the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error "when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church."[1] Infallibility is, according to the New Catholic Encyclopedia, "more than a simple, de facto absence of error. It is a positive perfection, ruling out the possibility of error".[2]...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility

I think that pretty much sums it up...
 

Josiah

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Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church that states that, in virtue of the promise of Jesus to Peter, the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error "when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church."[1] Infallibility is, according to the New Catholic Encyclopedia, "more than a simple, de facto absence of error. It is a positive perfection, ruling out the possibility of error".[2]...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility

I think that pretty much sums it up...


Yes. It proves you wrong.

The Catholic Church does not (and never has) taught that the Pope is God. Yes, under extremely rare circumstances (the last in 1904), the Pope may speak "ex cathedra" and his proclaimation in such, as such, is regarded as infallible. But as you prove, there is NO teaching, NO claim that the Pope is God.

Your claim is baseless and wrong. And just perpetuates WRONG anti-Catholicism.




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hobie

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Yes. It proves you wrong.

The Catholic Church does not (and never has) taught that the Pope is God. Yes, under extremely rare circumstances (the last in 1904), the Pope may speak "ex cathedra" and his proclaimation in such, as such, is regarded as infallible. But as you prove, there is NO teaching, NO claim that the Pope is God.

Your claim is baseless and wrong. And just perpetuates WRONG anti-Catholicism.




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I think everyone can see the point has been proven from the churchs own claims and writings...
 
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