Is freewill biblical or something we invented as society ?

atpollard

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
2,573
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Without free will you Cannot sin!
You are a robot or a slave!
Let me see if I understand … unless a crack addict has the ability to choose to stop being addicted to crack at any time without outside intervention (by his own free will), he cannot be a crack addict.
In the same way that unless a sin addict (fallen man) has the ability to choose to stop being a slave to sin at any time without outside intervention (by his own free will), he cannot be a sinner.

Is that really the argument why dead men can choose to draw themselves to God (contrary to scripture)?
It is only about salvation.
 

Faithhopeandcharity

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 2, 2021
Messages
590
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Let me see if I understand … unless a crack addict has the ability to choose to stop being addicted to crack at any time without outside intervention (by his own free will), he cannot be a crack addict.
In the same way that unless a sin addict (fallen man) has the ability to choose to stop being a slave to sin at any time without outside intervention (by his own free will), he cannot be a sinner.

Is that really the argument why dead men can choose to draw themselves to God (contrary to scripture)?
It is only about salvation.
Just the opposite
You must know it is wrong one still choose to do it
 

grumix8

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
193
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Seventh Day Adventist
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
We have freewill God lets us decide to do good or bad and our purpose in life is when we make that decision. it's easy to not know that purpose because we are different. But freewill God gives it but he also gives us the law and the law is not wrong and niether is freewill just soceity itself is wrong and we have forgotten what is the normal back in those days. Society mistakes and thinks G-d is against freewill but gave freewill the right to choose and they have invented freewill is voting, paying taxes, and civics duties. No people those things are the mistake modern society makes because they think they have evolved in such A way they surpass all of Israel back in those day but truth G-d is fair and gave us all. We have lost what is important love because human society is wrong and it's foundation is false and invented by masons.

G-d created it all the rocks, the atmosphere, everything has been giving and from all that we have built buildings and empires everything we have built has come from him modern world is our work and act but we do not acknowledge them we take the glory and everything for we are sinful. The concept of government we have created but we emulated it from G-d and his kingdom the order G-d has it first, the structure he establish since the dawn of the universe. We have created rights but we cannot use our rights agaisnt G-d and say he has violated them or civic manner say our freedom and establishment of our democracy hits against G-d and his kingdom. For he has the kingdom and the law. The law of his word and we do not have that for G-d gave us words but we are babylon the law is only his. Nor it belongs to hebrew people, eunuchs, or angels it only belongs to him to judge.

Our own system is flaw because we copy from each empire that has been establish Babylon, Rome, Greece, Britian, and Nazi Germany. Each has given its concept of right and law and all have copied each other and failed. Because again bible has establish that G-d and his system works and we with our notion of democracy and rights have copied on Rome and Babylon and they are wrong. The most important things that because we have technology which has help us after world war 2 we think we have surpass it all and enter the digitla world and we circumvalent our promblems of family, corruption, and normal things we had before the 1950's and think we are gods. And we want to be eternal and to be like powerful like G-d because it is what we have always been thinking because all of it is copy. When we are original and have the right system like he does everything works but our government and system does not because we are with flaws and our own boundaries aren't the solutions they are A reminder that we will never have A perfect system thus our rights and belief in them cannot be the truth. The freewill is revealed that there is A difference from freewill with G-d on accepting the right and wrong and succeeding in that way and from freewill from our modern concept which has failed and clashes with G-d's law which is right and truth and unless we do not use our rights against G-d freewill is that what we make only A lie and it existence false.

Freewill from that point of view is that of society and since society has masonry in it and all foundations of masonery is babylon and Dagon it compells people to make G-d like unfair despotism but you cannot apply that to G-d for he is G-d and he is God of Gods those words are just feeble people who make laws copying the old empires and fallacy arrives in it's policy. There is A way government can follow G-d's politics but that will be another day. But people and society will always collapse confronting and using thier rights and saying there is no freewill when you have to one understand things from G-d's point of view understand what serveth the law, how the law is completed thru love and how faith as A tool helps you make A better realtionship with G-d. When you find the truth and love in his way that G-d establish thru Jesus Christ you understand A secret way which freewill co-exist with G-d and love is what that bound unites it and makes freewill work but not under modern society but thru G-d mosaic law and know that is true freewill has been given to you but from the stance of modern world and republics establish go into error. I will explain more but have did A lot.
 

grumix8

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
193
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Seventh Day Adventist
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
People the choosing right or wrong and have the freedom to choose it was something G-d gave and he gave it to Adam that is why he disobeyed if he could not he would of not of fallen. The reason freewill has and even I don't like saying the devil had freewill. So know that freedom of deciding even do the word freewill does not exist in hebrew language and have found the same question the truth is that freedom to choose and disobey G-d has existed before the bible and angels and man have it.



It does not the word or phrase freewill does not exist in the hebrew langauge it conception does not exist. But still to choose " לבחור" It is what closest word to freewill of choosing is.
 

grumix8

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
193
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Seventh Day Adventist
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
but free does not exit with it and it does not mean the same thing in modern times. Liberals, democracy, and tea party do not mean the same thing in old time hebrew and wouldn't mean that.

see that you have all the right to choose good or evil and everything is choices you make but like moses who should pray for the water but instead stroke it. Also Hulda who made mistake in prophecy or the kings of israel all have made mistakes and change the course of destiny but still God's plan adapts to thier errors not God for he dones not make errors. But still things willbe different if they didn't do those things but all works good at the end.
 

grumix8

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
193
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Seventh Day Adventist
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
This is the point only God who is creator of good and evil of light and darkness is who moves it all, we were never meant to understand. What would of happen if he would of not put the tree of good and evil and would of never enter this world. We would of being like children still with our envelope of innocence and be in front ogf God protected by him ?


Yes, our purpose was not good or evil and by human fault we felled. If the tree was not their we would of fallen one will ask ? Nope, everything has plan and God never wanted man in this position what was the purpose of the tree afterwards ? if he would never eaten of it would of other animals eat of it and not man ? or later remove as time passed ? We will never know ? What was really the purpose just as A test of not to be eatena nd alter remove by God ?





But still we know God said that man was like him and the angels that knoweth good and evil ! And still we realize the devil had freewill before us and he fell ! But we know that in our error of Adam we can decide not like the devil but do good in the mistake and rely on God's effort and not our owns and put things in God's hands. Our destiny can change and move but some of you question we cannot escape him or his destiny he saved for us. The question do you want the destiny he did not prepare and leave us in possibility of A million to one what will happen and man just be thrown in space and let him decide ? What will be the outcome if you can plan everyhing since your born from A baby and turn into an adult that instance and God gave you all the power of the future and destiny you wanted ? you will know what you know and you will make A decision better ?




No, this why it is better that inside this world we live we can live in many possibilities and be saved by grace and baptized from sin into salvation and put love into salvation ! We would not of found our destiny if we could decide our destiny in that moment from baby to adult in space. He put us in Eden to be protected and choose not to eat the tree of good and evil and let use have choice ! If we didn't eat we will be perfect and without sin ! But we felled and he gave As econd chance in Jesus and glad that even those scientist believe if they ahd possiblity to ebf ree into choosing thier future our possiblities from predestination would make thier sum of equations and free from God soveriegn and have freewill ?





You have freewill protected and relying in God's effort and his soveriegn that you are not in space making decision but here in the world where in his care of law of moses and law of genesis. They would not of eating the fruti they will live in the probabilities in those rules and soveriegn of G-d's law and love. Be under his guidance and be saved. Knowing we can change those probablities and change our destiny from being A shoe salesman and into lawyer or governor of A state and reach our max and be what we want !


Moses change those probabilities and also Huldah in her prophecy, G-d could reverse those action make us forget it and then done but he let those error stay and destiny was changed seeing he does not make it all effect in a sense of our errors do not ruin our future and in error the Eden will return and heaven on earth and we will be saved despite our errors in Jesus. God could of just erase us and no one will know of our exsitence and done but he lets us know and see those error have existed and predestiantion can change and destiny and sum of those variables and one million in one probablities can change and anything is possible. Let us do good and make knowing of good and evil in God's favor and find our purpose in life and pray to him.


See he made probablities and the sense some people say that one can make decision and really can't change thier future or predestiantion just fear and laziness that future can change and just like Moses and Huldah made mistake know we can make success into our favor and do good and change our future with him and play hard ball i life and into all the promblems life does go thru and breakthru it all and not passive christian that rolls over and breaks the mold life give and make good in life and saves his family.


Kicks and screams and changes his future his predestiantion and not this that with God you can't change your future or predestiantion I see you can't change your future idea and you do not understand it still ! This why you do not understand how freewill works in God's favor and his plan of God. But still stuck with the laws of modern world and liberalism USA faces ! You have freedom to choose and better under God's wing and not in space where psycologist and scientist say they don't get to choose and if they choose they would make more errors and wouldn't recognize them !
 

grumix8

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
193
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Seventh Day Adventist
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
The base of freewill is what G-d wanted man with freewill before the fall man had man freewill ? and it was perfect ? Yes, Becuase it was align with him before all this of politics, sin, and works and faith of slavation were not part of this he wanted us to be with him in the garden and do one thing . Trust in him put our faith can we keep having our faith and keep the relation with Adam like G-d intended even though we are fallen and cannot be pure like he was, Inoccent ? Jesus is that second Adam he had A relationship and did what Adam was supposed to be A son, A servant and love like G-d loves the world. We are not perfect but we do 10% of the work, 50% of the work and 90 of the work % of faith and he does the rest in mysterious ways. Remember we are imperfect of the fall.
 

grumix8

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
193
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Seventh Day Adventist
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Know that the base of freewill the secret is what he wants before the fall and can we understand the concept of freewill ? He gave man choice to eat the tree of good and evil ? Yes, he did. So know there is freewill concept in what is slavery in the law of mosaic law and how you are liberated, and what is concept of how democracy of goverment of law say and gives freewill to choose A president or leader, the freewill of philosophy greeks talk, the freewill of from sin that Jesus liberates you and what Romans 8:8-9 NLT this verses says from satan. Know that to understand the freewill God gave Adam in the Eden is still the base of all this and we must do what Jesus did. Freewill means different in each culture because the words don't mean the same know the definition in hebrew is another in form of freedom of choice but inside the law and what greeks say about freewill is not the same and it is what influence
 

grumix8

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
193
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Seventh Day Adventist
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Our modern system in law and what we call liberalism but it is not what God is talking about and what the law says in the mosaic way and how jesus freed us from sin. Thru the mosaic law using the new testament by fullfiling it. Know that is the crucial and essential infromation we talk about and use verses to reveal the 2 commandments help us in the that road. And all this thread reveals to us that infromation. Know there is freewill in the flesh and in the spirit but loves is hte base of it. And destiny, predestination, probabilites of A billion to one, actions and owrks by faith decide our future, and God soveriegn over it and not God soveriegn in the future exist. It all exist and God's plan is what is goes in the end.

Know this why we must understand hebrew lexicon emaning and greek one's too because God's commandmnets are used to be exact and what he ordered in he way and issued was meant for kings, prophets, and his people and we must study thoroughly more and find they meaning to it and discover he meant freewil in one way and freewill for his people thrue Jesus and thru the law another way.
 

grumix8

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
193
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Seventh Day Adventist
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes

grumix8

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
193
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Seventh Day Adventist
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
freewill existed before adam and eve and the devil had it he chosed to rebelled. You saw it exist does the plan of G-d involves love and choosing to be free. Choose to put you will in G-d's will becuase it cause you conflict like everyone that it's impossible don't be in the box that is fate and destiny and what you decide is cannot be without god already planning it ?
The plan of God of giving thanks always is different of how he put the laws of physics and laws of probabilities in the world don't go to conlfict everything is possible. Know that mistake was made with moses and huldah and eliajh shows that fate can be changed. But still to pray and pray and doing the impossible to change your fate your destiny of being shoemaker or being into a lawyer is possible if you want. G-d has moved the universe and the fate of our humanity in wars with assyrians when he sent an angel, he makes miracles everyday and moves time and universe. ungratefulness is what all say because they have cobnflict say it's impossible God already plan for you everything but he's plan of god about been thankful even when bad things and been faithful and obeying him in good and bad times isn't about the future beenalready planned and impossible to avoid his soveriegn and he chosed the path already !

1. what he planned premptively in how the universe wrks and moves the sun and you have night and day and you age and you were bron in A planet God wrote that. physics work and you do everyday on works and buy groceries and food he establish laws.

2.probablitlies that everything changes and destiny moves constantly even when you don't know and G-d gives you every day to change you lifespan choose a better path by eating vegetables and changing your course of life not making the bad decison going to war and decided to go have job in kentucky and you change routes. everyday people the universe makes cracks in its fabric of how the destiny and chances are made by faith by believing by praying know God hears ya and God moves it all. Everything is possible God has used jews and did incredible things like making kings out of ordinary people makins miracles and making man into prophets and moving the universe for them. God does more thinsg we don't know he does for us becuase he loves us.

3.Don't be like the scientists who say everything is already planned he is a dictator god because he already decided everything for us and didn't let us choose. know if you decided things out of nowhere and you popped out of the planet and God ceases to exist you became God you wouldn't know what was the last things God did, then you will decide everything and you will make so many errors because you can't do what God does, and realese finally he was right and he put things all for A reason. Those scientist agnostic thinks if they were God decided everything realized how hard God life is deciding everything and he gave you all but you made the bad decisions in life. You had all the freedom you woulnd't know what to do with it and just make mistakes and if you were free to do everything and be A god you wouldn't find true love you woulnd't do things you just be the same individual looking for things and think having all the freedom and you decided everything you woulnd't find that special thing God has for youa t the end in heaven. You will be lost and still be unperfect those scientist just blame and if they had everything they will just mess up and realize didn't go their way either and mess up.
 

Messy

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2023
Messages
1,553
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
.


The "Synergism vs. Monergism" debate deals ONLY, EXCLUSIVELY with the issue of Justification (attaining salvation, spiritual life, a changed relationship with God, what some call initial justification or "born again"). It has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the philosophy of determinism or fate. Whether I eat an English muffin or oatmeal for breakfast this morning is a matter of free will, my free choice. But a spiritually DEAD person, cannot give himself life, God is the "Author and Giver of Life" (as we proclaim in the Nicene Creed), a dead person CANNOT (the Bible says) even say "Jesus is Lord" Synergists insist that Jesus saves no one.... but each dead, lifeless, godless person saves themselves by either giving themselves faith or doing enough faithless works or surrendering their will to the god they don't believe exists. Monergists believe that Jesus is the Savior and Jesus thus saves. BUT this ONLY concerns salvation (in a very narrow sense). NO ONE claims that God alone can choose whether I eat an English muffin or oatmeal this morning.... whether one buys a Toyota or a Subaru. Yes, God may GUIDE in some cases but this js a different issue that a dead person giving himself life - or not.
A spiritual dead person cannot give himself Life, but they can harden their own hearts. The soil does nothing when the sower comes, but it hasn't made itself hard. That is a choice. And also, when someone sees that God is real, they can chose to follow Him or not.
John 3
And this is the condemnation, tthat the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For ueveryone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been vdone in God.”

Spiritually dead ppl can still do something. They're not all like the demoniac.

Romans 2
for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

Resisting God is a choice.
Stephen the martyr:
You stiff-necked[g] and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. 52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom you now have become the betrayers and murderers, 53 who have received the law by the direction of angels and have not kept it.
 
Last edited:

grumix8

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
193
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Seventh Day Adventist
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
God gives choices Messy we have choice to do good or evil, use your freewill with God.
 

grumix8

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
193
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Seventh Day Adventist
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Truly freewill is a larger field of theology rich and secrets not revealed and realizing if you have freedom to choose God gave it. It needs depth researching to finds the secrets God intended us to.
 

grumix8

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
193
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Seventh Day Adventist
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Remember there many definitions of freewill. Determinism, freewill modern liberalism, freewill biblical, freewill your own experience, and freewill thru God his way when he created creationa nd from Jesus point of view how he wanted. We are all learning freewill and we are seeing the deep of.
 

grumix8

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
193
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Seventh Day Adventist
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
God gave us freewill , he gave it in Eden if they did not have freewill the devil could not of rebelled in heaven something I like not talking about. We can choose and the bible does say to choose to sin or to choose not to sin given people the choice.
 

grumix8

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
193
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Seventh Day Adventist
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Sometimes even though we are not supposed to do evil in a sinful anture doing evil can do good and when we do his plan we encounter some promblems that ask us to do evil but condition on our freewill and know balance not to overstep it. Even with those reasons, we can still choose between good and evil.

I may have a reason to do evil; and yet may still perform good.

And I may have a reason to do good; and yet may still perform evil.

Does God give us reasons to do evil?

Man has been plagued in good vs evil since it's dawn from the fall but we can do good. Sometimes we must do what the kings of the time of David did and the times of the prophets did like ezekiel. Even though it shouldn't of happen Elijah killed for the lord and abigail lied to do what was needed to save Israel.

Some say good people used the wrong approach to do good and protect the law from desecration like pharisees who ahrdened thier hearts protecting tradition before Jesus even though it was God there. ;D.

God directs their evil steps, but not artificially. He does it naturally.
 

grumix8

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
193
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Seventh Day Adventist
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Remember there many definitions of freewill. Determinism, freewill modern liberalism, freewill biblical, freewill your own experience, and freewill thru God his way when he created creationa nd from Jesus point of view how he wanted.

We are all learning freewill and we are seeing the deep of this huge field of freewill theology which is great in rich text and defines our relation with him in if we really trust, we trust him a percentage, we trust him like a child to a parent or we do not realize what we are ? Really we don't know the trueselves. Remember God says he has meant before you were born and he has plan of God for ya. He sent you here for a purpose one you and him agreed when he sent you here to do something he wanted to find your purpose on how you use your will and put in his hand find the secret thing of God sent you here.

He will reveal it to you in prayer and test and find the relation of Jesus how he used freewill and find when you try to do it like him even do impossible you will find why he sent you here in this planet.

We all have different purposes here in this planet but what he wants in his secret plan for you only and to do his plan you will discover the secret of life and love and his will.

Our will must be in his to know what he wanted us to do ;D.
 

grumix8

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
193
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Seventh Day Adventist
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Be the person you were before he sent you here, when you were in heaven for some it's being a child again for others being the mature and repsonsible person to achive like Jesus it will be revealed those secrets of us inside. The world teaches us to be liek the world and buy and sell, eat and drink and just sleep forget the world and you important. When you find God and you dig inside of you and ask God tell me why you sent me here to save my friends to go to war and save someone you have in your perfect plan or for me just for one day help someone you want in the future he becomes christian and enjoy the rest of my life with my family and he agve it easy for you ;D. it could be the smallest things or biggest to be president. He told you to be here in this world.


This is why we must go and ask him and pass God's test and when he sees he will show you his secret things in the bible and show you met him in heaven and he had plan and i'm not saying you are angel he sent you for in the bible Jesus says we will be like angels but in greek and other translation when he says that he just comparing us we cannot prove we are angels in this context but regardless he has a plan and he wanted us to be here for a special reason.
 
Top Bottom