How to identify a valid pastor.

[Albion]

In today's world, there are so many mail-order and self-proclaimed heads of congregations in addition to the people ordained in the traditional way by some denomination, many people wonder how to know where to draw the line when they are looking for a church or minister. What would help them decide?

 

[Spindle4]

In today's world, there are so many mail-order and self-proclaimed heads of congregations in addition to the people ordained in the traditional way by some denomination, many people wonder how to know where to draw the line when they are looking for a church or minister. What would help them decide?

There are no perfect pastors, but some obviously have gifts that make them good pastors, and the fruit of this is produced in the congregations they minister to.

A good pastor prefers to guide, edify, and comfort rather than control. This shepherd would prioritise person-orientation before task-orientation.

I remember studying leadership styles in one module of our Ministry Training College Course back in 1989, and we did a role playing exercise. Someone had to play a militaristic style, another a democratic style, another a teamwork, style, and the one I had to do was a laissez-faire, self-determining style. I think we arrived at the conclusion that different situations require different styles.

Years ago as a middle order pastoral leader in a large congregation I suffered badly under a task-oriented style of leadership that showed scant concern for the unrealistic expectations, unreasonable demands, and overwhelming burdens their "vision" for the fellowship produced.

I steer clear of domination, intimidation, manipulation, and seduction, but unfortunately these things do occur.

 

[Forgiven1]

Direct them to the churches who require seminary education and ordination such as the LCMS. The Pastors in these churches are certified by their denominations for ordination.

 

[Albion]

There are no perfect pastors, but some obviously have gifts that make them good pastors, and the fruit of this is produced in the congregations they minister to.

A good pastor prefers to guide, edify, and comfort rather than control. This shepherd would prioritise person-orientation before task-orientation.

I remember studying leadership styles in one module of our Ministry Training College Course back in 1989, and we did a role playing exercise. Someone had to play a militaristic style, another a democratic style, another a teamwork, style, and the one I had to do was a laissez-faire, self-determining style. I think we arrived at the conclusion that different situations require different styles.

Years ago as a middle order pastoral leader in a large congregation I suffered badly under a task-oriented style of leadership that showed scant concern for the unrealistic expectations, unreasonable demands, and overwhelming burdens their "vision" for the fellowship produced.

I steer clear of domination, intimidation, manipulation, and seduction, but unfortunately these things do occur.

Hello, and thank you for that thoughtful reply, but the question was not about quality pastors, "good" ones, that is. It was asking about legitimate ones and how a person could judge, since there are all sorts of different ways that people become pastors, ministers, priests, etc. including some people who just set up shop and claim that they had the "call" from God directly or something else like that.

Concerning your reply here, some of these latter cases are actually effective at preaching and counseling, but the question asked by inquirers is "are they legitimate," i.e. valid clergy, or not? Of course, that is somewhat dependent upon the rules of the denomination in question, but some of these are non-denominational pastors and some denominations are also suspect. So, the inquirer is left wondering.

 

[Albion]

Direct them to the churches who require seminary education and ordination such as the LCMS. The Pastors in these churches are certified by their denominations for ordination.

I think that's good advice, but it doesn't narrow the field very much, does it? Maybe in conjunction with other factors the inquirer should check on??

 

[Josiah]

There is no generic, non-denominational "certification" or "license" for pastors. Anyone can just declare themselves a pastor (and lots do). And you can buy ordination and certification from online denominations.

I would direct them to a solid, verifiable, major denomination (such as The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod). They all have websites and they all list pastors who are a legitimately a part of that denomination.



.

 

[Spindle4]

Direct them to the churches who require seminary education and ordination such as the LCMS. The Pastors in these churches are certified by their denominations for ordination.

Ok. Because a denomination ordains and credentials someone who meets their criteria that does not legitimise them as a pastor in the Biblical sense.

There is nothing legitimate, in the spiritual sense that I thought this thread was referring to, about persons in same-sex relationships ordained by some denominations to become ministers, pastors, or vicars, and likewise there is nothing legitimate about those who have willingly taken up "holy orders" but by their own confession do not believe the Bible, and are only interested in the cushy and flattering lifestyle they percieve is available to them as a member of the "ordained clergy".

 

[atpollard]

In today's world, there are so many mail-order and self-proclaimed heads of congregations in addition to the people ordained in the traditional way by some denomination, many people wonder how to know where to draw the line when they are looking for a church or minister. What would help them decide?

They wear their collar backwards.

 

[Forgiven1]

Ok. Because a denomination ordains and credentials someone who meets their criteria that does not legitimise them as a pastor in the Biblical sense.

There is nothing legitimate, in the spiritual sense that I thought this thread was referring to, about persons in same-sex relationships ordained by some denominations to become ministers, pastors, or vicars, and likewise there is nothing legitimate about those who have willingly taken up "holy orders" but by their own confession do not believe the Bible, and are only interested in the cushy and flattering lifestyle they percieve is available to them as a member of the "ordained clergy".

True for many denominations. Then the person needs to identify which ones support gay marriage, abortion, transgenderism. They would want to eliminate those denominations.

 

[Lees]

In today's world, there are so many mail-order and self-proclaimed heads of congregations in addition to the people ordained in the traditional way by some denomination, many people wonder how to know where to draw the line when they are looking for a church or minister. What would help them decide?

My opinion:

The whole idea for a church looking outside of itself for a pastor or pastor-teacher is flawed. The pastor or pastor-teacher is a gift of the Holy Spirit given to certain individuals. (Eph. 4:11)

It is the local body of Christ that gives evidence of these gifts found in certain individuals. Because they have the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit ministers to them through the gift given to pastor or pastor-teachers. In other words, they want to turn to this individual because they are ministered to by God. They want to hear this individual because his teaching ministers to them by God. It is they who recognize God's movement among them.

The idea of only one pastor or pastor-teacher in a church is also flawed. There are ususally several. But we have made the local church a one ring circus. Which does nothing but fuel pride in the position. Look at my pastorship, my great church.

The local church should be a group of believers with gifts of the Holy Spirit, all working in harmony with each other. The gift of pastor or pastor-teacher is no more important than the gift of helps. (1 Cor. 12:23-28)

The idea of a pastor looking for a job just shows how far the church of Christ has fallen.

Lees

 

[Faith]

Hello, and thank you for that thoughtful reply, but the question was not about quality pastors, "good" ones, that is. It was asking about legitimate ones and how a person could judge, since there are all sorts of different ways that people become pastors, ministers, priests, etc. including some people who just set up shop and claim that they had the "call" from God directly or something else like that.

Concerning your reply here, some of these latter cases are actually effective at preaching and counseling, but the question asked by inquirers is "are they legitimate," i.e. valid clergy, or not? Of course, that is somewhat dependent upon the rules of the denomination in question, but some of these are non-denominational pastors and some denominations are also suspect. So, the inquirer is left wondering.

I would say that they need a lot of training and classes, then ordained by a Christian Church. I went to a non denominational church where the Pastor’s son was being ordained and all it basically amounted to was his dad and two or three other pastors (unsure of their qualifications) prayed over him and declared him an ordained pastor.

 

[Faith]

There is no generic, non-denominational "certification" or "license" for pastors. Anyone can just declare themselves a pastor (and lots do). And you can buy ordination and certification from online denominations.

I would direct them to a solid, verifiable, major denomination (such as The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod). They all have websites and they all list pastors who are a legitimately a part of that denomination.



.

Not sure how he did it because people were referring to him as a “pastor” before we met but a friend of ours claims to be one. He doesnt work at his own church or any church so I have no idea how he was ordained. My guess is he became a “pastor” online.

 

[Albion]

My opinion:

The whole idea for a church looking outside of itself for a pastor or pastor-teacher is flawed.

I don't believe that we were talking about that kind of situation.

The idea of a pastor looking for a job

Or that one.

 

[Lees]

I don't believe that we were talking about that kind of situation.


Or that one.

You said, "so many mail order and self proclaimed heads of congregations....."

So, you were talking about that kind of situation. So, what is your problem now? Changed your mind? Just what are you talking about?

Just look at the title of your thread. "How to identify a valid Pastor". Unbelieveable.

Lees

 

[Spindle4]

Maybe in conjunction with other factors the inquirer should check on??

Mat 7:15-16 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves. (16) By their fruits you will know them. Do you gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?

FWIW, The Bible teaches plural servant leadership.

1Pe 5:1-5 Therefore I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and who will also share in the glory that will be revealed. (2) Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, exercising the oversight, not under compulsion, but voluntarily, not for dishonest gain, but willingly; (3) neither as lording it over those entrusted to you, but making yourselves examples to the flock. (4) When the chief Shepherd is revealed, you will receive the crown of glory that doesn’t fade away. (5) Likewise, you younger ones, be subject to the elder. Yes, all of you clothe yourselves with humility, to subject yourselves to one another; for “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

1Th 3:2 and sent Timothy, our brother and minister of God, and our fellow laborer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you and encourage you concerning your faith,

 

[Albion]

You said, "so many mail order and self proclaimed heads of congregations....."

And you said something about "a church looking outside itself for a pastor." I had referred to people who make themselves pastors.

 

[Spindle4]

And you said something about "a church looking outside itself for a pastor." I had referred to people who make themselves pastors.

Yeah, a manufactured calling was the term used at Ministry Training College. The fruits of such become obvious.

 

[Lees]

And you said something about "a church looking outside itself for a pastor." I had referred to people who make themselves pastors.

And my comments were directed toward 'who is a valid pastor'. What is your problem?

Lees

 

[Spindle4]

I had referred to people who make themselves pastors.

We have a number of established fellowships planted in our city of about 185,000, founded and pastored by individuals who were not recognised as pastors in their previous denominations but have gathered sufficient followers to purchase land and buildings. These fellowships raise up leaders to become pastors and elders, just as God intended.

Every fellowship, congregation, denomination, movement, or stream, no matter how large or small is started by someone somewhere.

Interesting Fact:
John Wesley and his brothers did not intend or set out to establish a new denomination but sought to reform the woeful state of the spirit-lacking, tradition-bound Church of England at the time.

 

[Albion]

Every fellowship, congregation, denomination, movement, or stream, no matter how large or small is started by someone somewhere.

Of course, but some are authorized and organized in the Biblical fashion...and others are unauthorized (or ''manufactured", as you put it) and largely unsupervised. There's no denying that fact, even as there's some argument over what it takes in order to be authorized.