Have you noticed ...

[MoreCoffee]

History does verify..

Precisely what history verifies it? Please give a source that we can check.

 

[visionary]

The words in red above do not appear to come from any work of Eusebius that I can identify. They are not present in the sixth book of his Ecclesiastical History and I know of no work called "Institutions" from his hand. Can you provide a more accurate source for this allegation?

http://www.ecatholic2000.com/eusebius/untitled-23.shtml

Clement's Outlines are sometimes cited as his Institutions

https://books.google.com/books?id=P...TAC#v=onepage&q=Clement Institutions&f=false

 

[visionary]

We gather that this system was adopted by the Nazarenes, the leadership of the visiting teachers being given to Peter, while James the brother of Jesus was elected Nasi, or president of the Supreme Council, both on account of his kinship to the Messiah and his noted piety." (Schonfield, Hugh (1938). The History of Jewish Christianity From the First to the Twentieth Century. Book out of print, pp. 14-15.) http://www.amazon.com/The-History-Jewish-Christianity-Twentieth/dp/1442180609

 

[MoreCoffee]

http://www.ecatholic2000.com/eusebius/untitled-23.shtml

Clement's Outlines are sometimes cited as his Institutions

A rather poorly documented source. The quote actually comes from Book II Chapter 1 section 3 of the Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius and that chapter says

Chapter 1. The Course pursued by the Apostles after the Ascension of Christ.

1. First, then, in the place of Judas, the betrayer, Matthias, who, as has been shown was also one of the Seventy, was chosen to the apostolate. And there were appointed to the diaconate, for the service of the congregation, by prayer and the laying on of the hands of the apostles, approved men, seven in number, of whom Stephen was one. He first, after the Lord, was stoned to death at the time of his ordination by the slayers of the Lord, as if he had been promoted for this very purpose. And thus he was the first to receive the crown, corresponding to his name, which belongs to the martyrs of Christ, who are worthy of the meed of victory.

2. Then James, whom the ancients surnamed the Just on account of the excellence of his virtue, is recorded to have been the first to be made bishop of the church of Jerusalem. This James was called the brother of the Lord because he was known as a son of Joseph, and Joseph was supposed to be the father of Christ, because the Virgin, being betrothed to him, was found with child by the Holy Ghost before they came together, Matthew 1:18 as the account of the holy Gospels shows.

3. But Clement in the sixth book of his Hypotyposes writes thus: For they say that Peter and James and John after the ascension of our Saviour, as if also preferred by our Lord, strove not after honour, but chose James the Just bishop of Jerusalem.
4. But the same writer, in the seventh book of the same work, relates also the following things concerning him: The Lord after his resurrection imparted knowledge to James the Just and to John and Peter, and they imparted it to the rest of the apostles, and the rest of the apostles to the seventy, of whom Barnabas was one. But there were two Jameses: one called the Just, who was thrown from the pinnacle of the temple and was beaten to death with a club by a fuller, and another who was beheaded. Paul also makes mention of the same James the Just, where he writes, Other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother. Galatians 1:19

5. At that time also the promise of our Saviour to the king of the Osrhœnians was fulfilled. For Thomas, under a divine impulse, sent Thaddeus to Edessa as a preacher and evangelist of the religion of Christ, as we have shown a little above from the document found there.
7. When he came to that place he healed Abgarus by the word of Christ; and after bringing all the people there into the right attitude of mind by means of his works, and leading them to adore the power of Christ, he made them disciples of the Saviour's teaching. And from that time down to the present the whole city of the Edessenes has been devoted to the name of Christ, offering no common proof of the beneficence of our Saviour toward them also.

8. These things have been drawn from ancient accounts; but let us now turn again to the divine Scripture. When the first and greatest persecution was instigated by the Jews against the church of Jerusalem in connection with the martyrdom of Stephen, and when all the disciples, except the Twelve, were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria, some, as the divine Scripture says, went as far as Phœnicia and Cyprus and Antioch, but could not yet venture to impart the word of faith to the nations, and therefore preached it to the Jews alone.
9. During this time Paul was still persecuting the church, and entering the houses of believers was dragging men and women away and committing them to prison.
10. Philip also, one of those who with Stephen had been entrusted with the diaconate, being among those who were scattered abroad, went down to Samaria, and being filled with the divine power, he first preached the word to the inhabitants of that country. And divine grace worked so mightily with him that even Simon Magus with many others was attracted by his words.
11. Simon was at that time so celebrated, and had acquired, by his jugglery, such influence over those who were deceived by him, that he was thought to be the great power of God. But at this time, being amazed at the wonderful deeds wrought by Philip through the divine power, he feigned and counterfeited faith in Christ, even going so far as to receive baptism.
12. And what is surprising, the same thing is done even to this day by those who follow his most impure heresy. For they, after the manner of their forefather, slipping into the Church, like a pestilential and leprous disease greatly afflict those into whom they are able to infuse the deadly and terrible poison concealed in themselves. The most of these have been expelled as soon as they have been caught in their wickedness, as Simon himself, when detected by Peter, received the merited punishment.
13. But as the preaching of the Saviour's Gospel was daily advancing, a certain providence led from the land of the Ethiopians an officer of the queen of that country, for Ethiopia even to the present day is ruled, according to ancestral custom, by a woman. He, first among the Gentiles, received of the mysteries of the divine word from Philip in consequence of a revelation, and having become the first-fruits of believers throughout the world, he is said to have been the first on returning to his country to proclaim the knowledge of the God of the universe and the life-giving sojourn of our Saviour among men; so that through him in truth the prophecy obtained its fulfilment, which declares that Ethiopia stretches out her hand unto God.
14. In addition to these, Paul, that chosen vessel, Acts 9:15 not of men neither through men, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ himself and of God the Father who raised him from the dead, Galatians 1:1 was appointed an apostle, being made worthy of the call by a vision and by a voice which was uttered in a revelation from heaven.​

Yet none of this tells us that Peter was of lesser rank or of lesser importance than James in fact the opposite appears to be the case since it is Peter, James (a different James it seems, very likely saint James the apostle of the Lord), and John who chose James as bishop. Surely the greater chooses and appoints the lesser for office. And I wonder what this has to do with the thread's topic. Nobody alleges that any of the people named in the account of the council at Jerusalem is ever said to be wicked and all are regarded as saints by the Catholic Church as far as I am able to tell.

 

[visionary]

The Palestinian historian Hegesippus (ca 90-180 CE) is quoted by the fourth century Church Father Eusebius as describing James the Just this way:

"But James, the brother of the Lord, who, as there were many of his name, was surnamed the Just by all, from the days of our Lord until now, received the government of the assembly with the emissaries. This emissary was holy from his mother's womb; he drank no wine nor strong drink, nor did he eat meat; nor razor touched his head, nor did he anoint himself with oil, and never used a bath [i.e., he did not go to the public warm baths, since we know from other sources that he bathed daily in cold water]. He alone was allowed to enter into the Place of Holiness [the Holy of Holies of the Temple], for he did not wear wool, but linen [the clothing of a High Priest], and he used to enter the Temple alone, and was often found upon his bended knees, interceding for the forgiveness of the people, so that his knees became as callused as a camel's, because of the constant importuning he did and kneeling before God and asking forgiveness for the people. . . . And indeed, on account of his exceeding great piety, he was called the Just [Hebrew tzadik, Righteous One], and Oblias [i.e., "The Wall", meaning "steadfast or just] or Ozleam [i.e., "Protector"] which signifies justice and protection of the people; as the prophets declare concerning him" (Hegesippus in the fifth book of his lost commentaries, quoted by Eusebius; Eccl. Hist. 2:23; 5:6).

After Jesus' death James became the leader of the Nazaraean movement (Acts12:17; 15:13-29; 21:18-26 & Gal. 1:19; Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History 2:23).

According to I Corinthians 15:7, James was one of those to whom Jesus appeared after the resurrection.
In I Chorinthians 15:7, it is recorded that Jesus appeared to his brother James after the resurrection. The Gospel according to the Hebrews also provides more detailed information about this event:

"Now the Lord, when he had given the linen cloth to the servent of the priest, went to James and appeared to him (for James had sworn that he would not eat bread from that hour wherein he had drunk the Lord's cup until he should see him rise again from among them that sleep), and again after a little, "Bring you," said the Lord, a table and bread", and immediately it is added", "He took bread and blessed and broke and gave it to James the Just and said to him: "My brother, eat your bread, for the son of Man is risen from among them that sleep" (from the Gospel of the Hebrews, as quoted by Jerome in Of Illustrius Men 2).

According to the Gospel of Thomas, after the death of Jesus, leadership of his followers fell to his brother, James: The students said to Yeshua: "We know you will leave us. Who is going to be our leader then?" Yeshua said to them:"No matter where you reside, you are to go to James the Just, for whose sake heaven and earth came into being." (The Gospel of Thomas, saying 12)

The leadership role referred to here is explained as that of the first Bishop of the Jersualem church by Eusebius and other second century writers. The Gospel According to the Hebrews, in a story that may also be referred to in 1 Cor. 15:17, also affirms James the Just as the leader of the Nazaereans after the crucifixion:

"Now the Lord, when he had given the linen cloth to the servent of the priest, went to James and appeared to him (for James had sworn that he would not eat bread from that hour wherein he had drunk the Lord's cup until he should see him rise again from among them that sleep), and again after a little, "Bring you," said the Lord, a table and bread", and immediately it is added", "He took bread and blessed and broke and gave it to James the Just and said to him: "My brother, eat your bread, for the son of Man is risen from among them that sleep" (Quoted by Jerome; Of Illustrious Men 2).

 

[visionary]

ames the Just was very popular with the Jewish community in general. According to Eusebius, he was widely known in the Jewish community as "Rigteous and Oblias [meaning "bulwark of the people"]" Under his inflence the Nazarene movement grew until his death in 63 C.E, as Hegesippus goes on to say:

Some of the seven sects, therefore, of the people, mentioned by me above in my commentaries, asked him what was the door to Y'shua? and he answered: "That he was the Saviour." From which, some believed that Y'shua is the Messiah. But the aforementioned heresies did not believe either a resurrection, or that he was coming to give to every one according to his works; as many however, as did believe, did so on account of James. As there were many therefore of the rulers that believed, there arose a tumult among the Jews, Scribes and Pharisees, saying that there was danger, that the people would now expect Y'shua as the Messiah. They came therefore together, and said to James: "We entreat you, restrain the people, who are led astray after Y'shua, as if he were the Messiah. We entreat you to persuade all that are coming to the feast of the Passover rightly concerning Y'shua; for we all have confidence in you. For we and all the people hear the testimony that you are just, and you respect not persons. Persuade therefore the people not to be led astray by Y'shua, for we and all the people have great confidence in you. Stand therefore upon a wing of the Temple, that you may be conspicuous on high, and your words may be easily heard by all the people; for all the tribes have come together on account of the Passover, with some of the Gentiles also. The aforesaid Scribes and Pharisees, therefore, placed James upon a wing of the Temple, and cried out to him: "Oh you just man, whom we ought all to believe, since the people are led astray after Y'shua that was crucified, declare to us what is the door to Y'shua that was crucified." And he answered with a loud voice, "Why do you ask me respecting Y'shua the Son of Man? He is now sitting in the heavens, on the right hand of Great Power, and is about to come on the clouds of heaven." (Ps. 110:1 & Dan. 7:13). And as many were confirmed, and glorified in this testimony of James, and said, Hosanna to the son of David, these same priests ans Pharisees said to one another: "We have done badly in affording such testimony to Y'shua, but let us go up and cast him down, that they may dread to believe in him." And they cried out: "Oh, oh, the Just himself is deceived," and they fulfilled that which is written in Isaiah: Let us take away the just, because he is offensive to us; wherefore they shall eat the fruit of their doings [Is. 3:10].

"Going up therefore, they cast down the just man, saying to one another: "Let us stone James the Just." And they began to stone him, as he did not die immediately when cast down; but turning round, he knelt down saying, "I entreat you, O Lord God and Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." Thus they were stoning him, when one of the priests of the sons of Recheb, a son of the Rechabites, spoken of by Jeremiah the prophet, cried out saying: "Cease, what are you doing? Justus is praying for you." And one of them, a fuller, beat out the brains of Justus with the club that he used to beat out clothes. Thus he suffered martyrdom, and they buried him on the spot where his tombstone is still remaining, by the Temple. He bacame a faithful witness, both to the Jews and the Greeks, that Y'shua is the Messiah. Immediately after this, Vespian invaded and took Judea. (Hegesippus as quoted by Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History 2:23)

Josephus also records the death of James the Just this way:

Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he [the High Priest Ananus] assembled the sanhedrin of the judges, and brought before them the brother of Y'shua, who was called Messiah, whose name was James, and some others, [or some of his companions;] and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done. (Josephus, Antiquities 20:9:1)

According to Eusebius, his version of Josephus's works contained the following in relation to the destruction of Jeusalem and the Temple in 70 C.E.:

"These things happened to the Jews to avenge James the Just, who was brother of him that is called the Messiah, and whom the Jews had slain, not withstanding his pre-eminant justice." (Josephus quoted by Eusebius; Eccl. Hist. 2:23)

 

[visionary]

Because of Jewish persecution of the Nazoraeans and the political turmoil that culminated in the reconquest of Jerusalem in 70 C.E., no immediate successor was appointed in the Jerusalem church. This changed after the return to Jerusalem, where a Jewish church was reestablished and continued to exist until the revolt of 135 C.E. According to Eusebius, after the death of James, the Apostles selected Simeon, a cousin of Jesus, to fill the position of Bishop over the believers in Jerusalem:

"After the martyrdom of James and the capture of Jerusalem which instantly followed, there is a firm tradition that those of the apostles and disciples of the Lord who were still alive assembled from all parts together with those who, humanly speaking, were kinsmen of the Lord--for most of them were still living and they all took counsel together concerning whom they should judge worthy to succeed James and to the unanimous tested approval it was decided that Symeon son of the Clopas, mentioned in the gospel narrative, was worthy to occupy the throne [i.e., the position of Bishop] of the Jerusalem see. He was, so it is said, a cousin of the savior, for Hegesippus relates that Clopas was the brother of Joseph" (Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History. 3.11.1)

 

[visionary]

According to Hegessipus (as recounted by Eusebius), Simeon was killed about 106 C.E. during a time of persecution under the emperor Trajan (Ecclesiastical History 3:32). One intent of this persecution, which began with an order by Domitian, was to eliminate all Jews of the Davidic line, which would have included the desposyni among the Jewish followers of Yahshua. Hegessipus recounts Domitian's initial concern about the Davidic line within the Messianic Jews:


"Now there still survived of the family of the Lord grandsons of Judas, who was said to have been his brother according to the flesh, and they were delated as being of the family of David. These the officers brought to Domitian Caesar, for like Herod, he was afraid of the coming of the Christ [= "Messiah"]. He asked them if they were of the house of David and they admitted it. Then he asked them how much property they had, or how much money they controlled, and they said that all they possessed was nine thousand denarii between them, the half belonging to each, and they said that they did not possess this in money but that it was the valuation of only thirty-nine plethra [= about a quarter of an acre] of ground on which they paid taxes and lived on it by their own work." They then showed him the hardness of their bodies, and the tough skin which had been embossed on their hands from their incessant work. They were asked concerning the Christ ["Messiah"] and his kingdom, its nature, origin, and time of appearance, and explained that it was neither of the world nor earthly, but heavenly and angelic, and it would be at the end of the world, when he would come in glory to judge the living and the dead and to reward every man according to his deeds. At this Domitian did not condemn them at all, but despised them as simple folk, released them, and decreed an end to the persecution. But when they were released they were the leaders of the churches, both for their testimony and for their relation to the Lord, and remained alive in the peace which ensued until Trajan" (Ecclesiastical History 3:19-20).

Simeon's successor was a Jewish follower named Justus who was not one of the desposyni, so this period may mark the beginning of the end of desposyni influence within the Jerusalem church. Justus himself is described by Eusebius as being "of the circumcision," suggesting that he numbered himself among those at Jerusalem who adhered to Jewish customs.

 

[MoreCoffee]

[MENTION=131]visionary[/MENTION], I see a flood of posts that (no doubt) has something to do with James [the just] being the first bishop of Jerusalem but I don't see why any of it is relevant to either the thread's topic or to the question of the relative rank/authority/status as servants of the Lord of the apostles of Christ versus saint James the bishop of Jerusalem. Can you explain what your intended reason for the posts is?

 

[visionary]

[MENTION=131]visionary[/MENTION], I see a flood of posts that (no doubt) has something to do with James [the just] being the first bishop of Jerusalem but I don't see why any of it is relevant to either the thread's topic or to the question of the relative rank/authority/status as servants of the Lord of the apostles of Christ versus saint James the bishop of Jerusalem. Can you explain what your intended reason for the posts is?

You asked... I am answering.

 

[MoreCoffee]

You asked... I am answering.

Did you read post #24?

 

[visionary]

What it does clearly show is who is the leader and who is a missionary.

 

[MoreCoffee]

What it does clearly show is who is the leader and who is a missionary.

All of the twelve were missionaries, it was their calling from the Lord yet the apostles were the highest and final authority in the Church on Earth.

 

[psalms 91]

Actually it was the council in Jerusalem, that is where money was sent, that is where Paul declared the gentiles coming in arhguing their case. It was set up as the Sanhedrin was which was the governing body of the Jews.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Actually it was the council in Jerusalem, that is where money was sent, that is where Paul declared the gentiles coming in arguing their case. It was set up as the Sanhedrin was which was the governing body of the Jews.

Yes, on the whole what you say is true. Though I think that the Sanhedrin was an advisory body in Judea with some authority there but only prestige and honour elsewhere while the Church council in Jerusalem had religious authority that was heard and obeyed in the gentile churches outside Jerusalem. And as I recall it was saint Peter who the book of the Acts of the apostles reports as saying "Noble brothers, you know that, in recent days, God has chosen from among us, by my mouth, Gentiles to hear the word of the Gospel and to believe. And God, who knows hearts, offered testimony, by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as to us. And he distinguished nothing between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore, why do you tempt God to impose a yoke upon the necks of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? But by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, we believe in order to be saved, in the same manner also as them." (Acts 15:7-11) and then the entire council was silent and they listened to Barnabas and Paul, describe what great signs and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles through them.