God still chooses.

[MennoSota]

My church is going through 1 Samuel. In chapter 10 we see God choosing Saul as King. There is no call for repentance before God chooses him. There is only God choosing and God giving Saul a new heart.
I am struck by how consistent God is from Genesis to Revelation in how He calls out people according to His Sovereign will.
1 Samuel 10:1,6,9

Then Samuel took a flask of oil and poured it on his head and kissed him and said, “Has not the Lord anointed you to be prince over his people Israel? And you shall reign over the people of the Lord and you will save them from the hand of their surrounding enemies. And this shall be the sign to you that the Lord has anointed you to be prince over his heritage.
Then the Spirit of the Lord will rush upon you, and you will prophesy with them and be turned into another man.
When he turned his back to leave Samuel, God gave him another heart. And all these signs came to pass that day.

 

[Arsenios]

My church is going through 1 Samuel. In chapter 10 we see God choosing Saul as King. There is no call for repentance before God chooses him. There is only God choosing and God giving Saul a new heart.
I am struck by how consistent God is from Genesis to Revelation in how He calls out people according to His Sovereign will.
1 Samuel 10:1,6,9

Well, the people did ask for a king...

1Sa 10:19
And ye have this day rejected your God,
who Himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations;
and ye have said unto Him,
"Nay, but set a king over us."
Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD
by your tribes, and by your thousands.

And you are right, God appointed them a king...

Glory to God in ALL things...


Arsenios

 

[bbbbbbb]

Well, the people did ask for a king...

1Sa 10:19
And ye have this day rejected your God,
who Himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations;
and ye have said unto Him,
"Nay, but set a king over us."
Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD
by your tribes, and by your thousands.

And you are right, God appointed them a king...

Glory to God in ALL things...


Arsenios

Yes, that is one of the mysteries of God's will - He gives us what we ask even when we clearly understand it not to be according to His will, and then we are chastised accordingly.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Yes, that is one of the mysteries of God's will - He gives us what we ask even when we clearly understand it not to be according to His will, and then we are chastised accordingly.

I hate it when that happens (welcome to CH!)

 

[FredVB]

And still it is not with God wanting any to perish. But Saul was not chosen for having new life, he was chosen for being king.

 

[Wilhemena]

In Jeremiah 1 verse 5, Jeremiah was told that long before he was born, God had chosen him for this important task.

 

[MennoSota]

Yes, that is one of the mysteries of God's will - He gives us what we ask even when we clearly understand it not to be according to His will, and then we are chastised accordingly.

What God says "yes" to is also in His will. We simply cannot grasp the path of the infinite when we are finite.

 

[Arsenios]

Yes, that is one of the mysteries of God's will - He gives us what we ask even when we clearly understand it not to be according to His will, and then we are chastised accordingly.

Great reply!

Welcome aboard!


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

In Jeremiah 1 verse 5, Jeremiah was told that long before he was born, God had chosen him for this important task.

Indeed, and I think this is true of perhaps all the OT Prophets, yes?
They are pre-proven by God...
Or as we say, pre-approved...

For the rest of us, perhaps not so much??




Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

What God says "yes" to is also in His will.
We simply cannot grasp the path of the infinite when we are finite.

Unassailable point...


Arsenios

 

[MoreCoffee]

Why is an image of Menno Simons associated with Calvinist theology?

Menno was an Anabaptist despised by Calvinists.

Menno Simons (1496 – 31 January 1561) was a former Catholic priest from the Friesland region of the Netherlands who became an influential Anabaptist religious leader. Simons was a contemporary of the Protestant Reformers and it is from his name that his followers became known as Mennonites.

Menno Simons' influence on Anabaptism in the Netherlands was so great that Baptist historian William Estep suggested that their history be divided into three periods: "before Menno, under Menno, and after Menno". Menno is especially significant because of his coming to the Anabaptist movement in the north in its most troublesome days, and helping not only to sustain it, but also to establish it as a viable Radical Reformation movement.

John Calvin wrote concerning Menno Simons:

“You cannot imagine anything more conceited than this ass [Menno Simons], anything more insolent than this dog.”​

 

[MennoSota]

Why is an image of Menno Simons associated with Calvinist theology?

Menno was an Anabaptist despised by Calvinists.

Menno Simons (1496 – 31 January 1561) was a former Catholic priest from the Friesland region of the Netherlands who became an influential Anabaptist religious leader. Simons was a contemporary of the Protestant Reformers and it is from his name that his followers became known as Mennonites.

Menno Simons' influence on Anabaptism in the Netherlands was so great that Baptist historian William Estep suggested that their history be divided into three periods: "before Menno, under Menno, and after Menno". Menno is especially significant because of his coming to the Anabaptist movement in the north in its most troublesome days, and helping not only to sustain it, but also to establish it as a viable Radical Reformation movement.

John Calvin wrote concerning Menno Simons:

“You cannot imagine anything more conceited than this ass [Menno Simons], anything more insolent than this dog.”​

Of course Menno Simons is not a follower of Calvin. He is the leader of Mennonites. Make the connection here, based upon my Arminian background...

 

[MoreCoffee]

Of course Menno Simons is not a follower of Calvin. He is the leader of Mennonites. Make the connection here, based upon my Arminian background...

But you express almost nothing but disrespect for all things allegedly Arminian. So why use an image of Menno Simons as your avatar?

 

[MennoSota]

But you express almost nothing but disrespect for all things allegedly Arminian. So why use an image of Menno Simons as your avatar?

Indeed, if you have read my journey, you will note how scripture convinced me that Arminian theology is weakly supported.
However, I do acknowledge the call to pacifism as shared by Jesus in Matthew 7. Not everything within the Mennonite community is bad. In fact, there is much good. The ideas of free-will are simply wrong.

 

[FredVB]

What God says "yes" to is also in His will. We simply cannot grasp the path of the infinite when we are finite.

From any of our positions we necessarily cannot understand most of the truth about God. We can though see what is in revelation from Yahweh for us, that we can understand enough for what to believe, and how to act from that.

We can trust what is shown from that. Where we are told to choose, we really are to choose. And there are things like this for all. Now God commands all people everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). If God ever overlooked this, he would overlook it now if people everywhere had no chance, but it is required, they all do have opportunity to come to this.

 

[MennoSota]

Whate'er My God Ordains is Right
https://youtu.be/f0LeOlSkyQI

 

[MennoSota]

Even our mundane choices are woven to accomplish God's ordained will. No will is so "free" that God does not fully mold the choice of men to His Sovereign purpose.
No man or woman chooses God as His Father. Just as Adam and Eve, every man or woman runs away from the Holy God. It is only the man or woman that God calls out of hiding who emerges to be reconciled in a new everlasting covenant. Humans cannot baptize them into this covenant. Humans cannot eat the body and drink the blood into this covenant. God must, like He did with Abraham, choose to make the covenant with the individual by walking through the sacrificial atonement of Christ Jesus. God will not fail in His covenant for God has sworn by Himself to never leave us nor forsake us.

 

[MennoSota]

1 Samuel 16:1
The Lord said to Samuel, “How long will you grieve over Saul, since I have rejected him from being king over Israel? Fill your horn with oil, and go. I will send you to Jesse the Bethlehemite, for I have provided for myself a king among his sons.”

In reading 1 Samuel 16, in preparation for our church service tomorrow, I am struck by God's sovereign work in raising David to be King over Israel.
God states "I have provided for myself," which means that God orchestrated and ordained David's life to be what it was. God did not choose David because David impressed Him. God chose David because God had created David for the very task of being King over Israel.
It is also noteworthy that Samuel's impressions were also discounted. God didn't do what the spiritual leader would have done. Samuel would have picked one of Jesse's other children. It is a wonderful truth that God ordains and chooses solely according to His sovereign will and by no other means of merit.

 

[FredVB]

From any of our positions we necessarily cannot understand most of the truth about God. We can though see what is in revelation from Yahweh for us, that we can understand enough for what to believe, and how to act from that.

We can trust what is shown from that. Where we are told to choose, we really are to choose. And there are things like this for all. Now God commands all people everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). If God ever overlooked this, he would overlook it now if people everywhere had no chance, but it is required, they all do have opportunity to come to this.

Even our mundane choices are woven to accomplish God's ordained will. No will is so "free" that God does not fully mold the choice of men to His Sovereign purpose.
No man or woman chooses God as His Father. Just as Adam and Eve, every man or woman runs away from the Holy God. It is only the man or woman that God calls out of hiding who emerges to be reconciled in a new everlasting covenant. Humans cannot baptize them into this covenant. Humans cannot eat the body and drink the blood into this covenant. God must, like He did with Abraham, choose to make the covenant with the individual by walking through the sacrificial atonement of Christ Jesus. God will not fail in His covenant for God has sworn by Himself to never leave us nor forsake us.

God is sovereign in choosing what will happen. Yet God leaves some things to our choice, and allows consequences to happen from our choices. That God says to choose in places in the Bible means that we really do choose in things. It is not even just the redeemed who are given choice in things. That choice may be made with which there is curse, shown to the people of Israel, as the redeemed will not be subject to a curse from God, shows that unredeemed also are given choice.

That Yahweh can bring good out of every thing that those who love God will go through shows God's sovereignty with unlimited knowledge, with this not meaning that there were none choosing anything with consequences that those who love God go through.

In reading 1 Samuel 16, in preparation for our church service tomorrow, I am struck by God's sovereign work in raising David to be King over Israel.
God states "I have provided for myself," which means that God orchestrated and ordained David's life to be what it was. God did not choose David because David impressed Him. God chose David because God had created David for the very task of being King over Israel.
It is also noteworthy that Samuel's impressions were also discounted. God didn't do what the spiritual leader would have done. Samuel would have picked one of Jesse's other children. It is a wonderful truth that God ordains and chooses solely according to His sovereign will and by no other means of merit.

David was chosen, just as Saul was chosen. They were chosen for being king, it was not choosing them to have faith. Faith, though enabled for us, which we can't have just from our ability, is from our response. Some resist that.

Where we are told to choose, we really are to choose. And there are things like this for all. Now God commands all people everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). If God ever overlooked this, he would overlook it now if people everywhere had no chance, but it is required, they all do have opportunity to come to this.

 

[MennoSota]

God is sovereign in choosing what will happen. Yet God leaves some things to our choice, and allows consequences to happen from our choices. That God says to choose in places in the Bible means that we really do choose in things. It is not even just the redeemed who are given choice in things. That choice may be made with which there is curse, shown to the people of Israel, as the redeemed will not be subject to a curse from God, shows that unredeemed also are given choice.

That Yahweh can bring good out of every thing that those who love God will go through shows God's sovereignty with unlimited knowledge, with this not meaning that there were none choosing anything with consequences that those who love God go through.




David was chosen, just as Saul was chosen. They were chosen for being king, it was not choosing them to have faith. Faith, though enabled for us, which we can't have just from our ability, is from our response. Some resist that.

Where we are told to choose, we really are to choose. And there are things like this for all. Now God commands all people everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). If God ever overlooked this, he would overlook it now if people everywhere had no chance, but it is required, they all do have opportunity to come to this.

God ordains our choices by determining whether He will allow it or not. If God says no, we cannot do it no matter how hard we fight against the bit. Balaam is a wonderful example of this.
We may wonder why God gives an "okay" to evil things. Read the book of Job where God okays Satan's actions toward Job. God does not explain to us why He says yes to allowing Job's children to be killed. God just does it. We are left to trust that God's choice is good, or we can be like Job's wife and bring judgment against God because we don't like God's Sovereignty.
You imagine that making a choice equals freedom. That's foolish. A slave, making a choice within a parameter, does not make them free.
You imagine that God is passive and waits to react to an entire world of choices and then scramble continually to reorient to His will. Again, that's foolish. God is proactive. His plan is perfectly worked out using the corrupted human action to accomplish that which He is willing. We see this when reading the prophet Habakkuk as he struggles with how God will use the evil nation of Babylon to accomplish His will.
God does not leave us to wait upon our choice. God uses our corrupt choice to exactly do what He has always willed.