Gift of Tongues

[Albion]

I DO understand it, which is why I included an explanation of that point along with the rest of my comments. I assume that you don't care about that and so fall into the category of the folks I referred to at the end of my post.

 

[Imalive]

...and the tongues speakers who aren't giving off with demonic language are speaking meaningless sounds. They cannot explain how that represents anything but an emotional release.

Anyway, there have been many studies done on the phenomenon and there is no doubt that most of it is phony.

To be fair, that wouldnt prove that every last one is phony. But that's where the movement falters, since very few Pentecostals are willing to admit that any gibberish, at any time, and from anyone, could possibly be phony.

I don't know if most is phony. Not what I have encountered. I did have a demonic tongue once though and another tongue speaker kicked that out. It's stupid that a lot of charismatics swallow everything and don't speak against stuff, because then the ones who believe it's all evil or phony will do it. I was mad at MacArthur, but no charismatic stood up to warn their own ppl of false fire. What I find so weird is that some really good ones work together w the false ones because 'unity'. I stay away from those conferences now, although some speakers are really good. Or take Sid Roth. Sometimes he has fabulous guests and other times I'm like: don't you have discernment?

 

[meluckycharms]

It wouldn't make much sense for a demon to speak tongues anyway, possessed people tend to mouth off profanities to the audience, its not good evil advertisement to speak in a tongue that the majority won't recognise. That's how I know my tongue it awesome, because its pure and cannot profane because the audience is strictly God and I speaketh mysteries.
The only one who claims to interpret my tongues is Menno, who says its not tongues at all but what does he know? English and thats all? lol
Like I said earlier a million times in this thread ..."I know what 'it' is"

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I remember reading somewhere about a similar situation where a certain godly person was accused of commanding demons. How did that go again?

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[Andrew]

...and the tongues speakers who aren't giving off with demonic language are speaking meaningless sounds. They cannot explain how that represents anything but an emotional release.

Anyway, there have been many studies done on the phenomenon and there is no doubt that most of it is phony.

To be fair, that wouldnt prove that every last one is phony. But that's where the movement falters, since very few Pentecostals are willing to admit that any gibberish, at any time, and from anyone, could possibly be phony.

Studies have shown that it relieves stress, it's liberating to to utter out gibber jabber other than conforming for the moment to your mother tongue. It frees the part of your brain that controls language along with the frontal lobe and its even referred to as the "third brain", it's quite natural too, how do you think languages start in the first place? We start off as toddlers gibber jabbering and I bet there is a tiny bit of stress that attaches to picking and choosing words to say, the tongue is the most powerful weapon of mankind.
I admit it sounds like gibberish to me and to you, I admit that it's adlib by the spirit but definitely not adlib by thoughts. I admit that its an utterance that no man could possibly understand... im not convinced that scripture points out that for every tongue you need an interpreter, seems like interpretations would have to be common in those days to spread the word.
I haven't come across any interpretations so I still don't know about it personally, I also highly doubt that anyone in my congregation have ever uttered one word of an actual foreign language and it would do no good if they did.
And by God I just can't help it when the spirit moves at church and my spirit adlibs utterance, it's joyful and its not demonic so who cares? lol

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[ImaginaryDay2]

If "tongues" are "adlib by the Spirit" doesn't Paul teach not to speak if an interpreter is not present? What we see (and what I saw myself during 10 years in the Pentecostal church) is exactly why Paul went to great pains to instruct the church on how to use the gift. Otherwise there's chaos and disorder

 

[psalms 91]

If "tongues" are "adlib by the Spirit" doesn't Paul teach not to speak if an interpreter is not present? What we see (and what I saw myself during 10 years in the Pentecostal church) is exactly why Paul went to great pains to instruct the church on how to use the gift. Otherwise there's chaos and disorder

That is part of a pastors job, to maintain order.

 

[Andrew]

If "tongues" are "adlib by the Spirit" doesn't Paul teach not to speak if an interpreter is not present? What we see (and what I saw myself during 10 years in the Pentecostal church) is exactly why Paul went to great pains to instruct the church on how to use the gift. Otherwise there's chaos and disorder

It also says not to cease anyone from speaking tongues.
Pentecostal churches have the dogma that everyone must speak in tongues,.. so if your wondering if its by the book then no, all church dominations have some degree of handicap. It's not like I interrupt the sermon with tongues, and I think that is what Paul was correcting, if my pastor only gave his sermon in tongues well how would it benefit the church?
I usually go off when the musics playing, no one needs to hear my tongues lol it wont do them any good, although when someone is laying their hand on your head and starts speaking tongues it can stir up the Spirit, as in my case, but I don't usually go up to the alter like I used to. It does help wake people up from wickedness but its like a one shot deal, it took me twice before I got the Spirit, you only get the Holy Spirit once is what I am saying. Its impossible to be redeemed and to fall away and to be redeemed again... but sometimes the spirit needs to be stirred up again..


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[meluckycharms]

It also says not to cease anyone from speaking tongues.
Pentecostal churches have the dogma that everyone must speak in tongues,..

I don't think that is entirely accurate. One of the tenants of the Pentecostal church is that "speaking of tongues is the initial physical sign of baptism of the Holy Spirit". Meaning, it is possible to be baptised in the spirit and have never spoken in tongues. I admittedly fall into this category. However, speaking in tongues is the initial "physical" evidence that manifests.

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[Andrew]

I don't think that is entirely accurate. One of the tenants of the Pentecostal church is that "speaking of tongues is the initial physical sign of baptism of the Holy Spirit". Meaning, it is possible to be baptised in the spirit and have never spoken in tongues. I admittedly fall into this category. However, speaking in tongues is the initial "physical" evidence that manifests.

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Well my church slips up from time to time, they get really into "you must" talks and then something like "you must speak in tongues" which leaves the majority of the congregation baffled. It's one of the things I disagree with at my church.

 

[meluckycharms]

Well my church slips up from time to time, they get really into "you must" talks and then something like "you must speak in tongues" which leaves the majority of the congregation baffled. It's one of the things I disagree with at my church.

If you don't mind me asking, are you AOG? Also, after hearing this, it seems understandable for people to "fake it" when it comes to speaking in tongues. They are probably afraid of what their congregations will think of them if they didn't. I wouldn't want people assuming I wasn't saved because my pastor is telling me it's "a must".

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[ImaginaryDay2]

That is part of a pastors job, to maintain order.

I would agree. And many Pastors don't take this responsibility seriously. Many do. But after we are educated through scripture, isn't it our responsibility to follow the command?

If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. (emphasis mine)

 

[Andrew]

If you don't mind me asking, are you AOG? Also, after hearing this, it seems understandable for people to "fake it" when it comes to speaking in tongues. They are probably afraid of what their congregations will think of them if they didn't. I wouldn't want people assuming I wasn't saved because my pastor is telling me it's "a must".

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I don't know what AOG is.
I'm not sure if people can fake it, if so the other person couldn't really tell the difference, it's between them and God if its real or fake. Trying to draw a line of authenticity is impossible and its as dangerous as accusing someone of being demon possessed, but I do believe the 'must' talks make a lot of people upset, i don't they would fake it to fit in tho.

Edit: Assembly of God? No I'm just a Christian that attends a good old fashion small town Pentecostal

 

[Andrew]

I would agree. And many Pastors don't take this responsibility seriously. Many do. But after we are educated through scripture, isn't it our responsibility to follow the command?

I do the 'speak to thyself and to God' bit

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[psalms 91]

I would agree. And many Pastors don't take this responsibility seriously. Many do. But after we are educated through scripture, isn't it our responsibility to follow the command?

Question, until you speak in toungues how do you know if there is someone to interpret? Also It is the Holy Spirit that interprets and can use anyone so to me this is a part of how to tell if it is genuine or not

 

[meluckycharms]

I don't know what AOG is.
I'm not sure if people can fake it, if so the other person couldn't really tell the difference, it's between them and God if its real or fake. Trying to draw a line of authenticity is impossible and its as dangerous as accusing someone of being demon possessed, but I do believe the 'must' talks make a lot of people upset, i don't they would fake it to fit in tho.

Edit: Assembly of God? No I'm just a Christian that attends a good old fashion small town Pentecostal

Ok. I know that some Pentecostal denominations have a different polity. Assemblies of God are more like the Baptist because they're autonomous. The Church of God is more like the Methodist because they are bishop led. Assemblies of God tend to be a little less consistent in their theology because their lack of oversight.

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[meluckycharms]

Question, until you speak in toungues how do you know if there is someone to interpret? Also It is the Holy Spirit that interprets and can use anyone so to me this is a part of how to tell if it is genuine or not

Well...this is where I begin to have a separation from most Pentecostal denomination. My personal position is that "Speaking in tongues" is not to be confused with "praying in the spirit". Speaking in tongues is when the Holy Spirit empowers you to literally speak another language that you are not normally familiar with. Like if I all of a sudden I started speaking ancient Hebrew or Russian. All it takes is someone who knows the language to interpret it. I have personally witnessed two occasions where this has happened.

Praying in the spirit can be found in Romans 8:26 and is not intended to be interpreted for others. It's just between you and God.

In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.
Romans 8:26 NIV


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[Albion]

Studies have shown that it relieves stress, it's liberating to to utter out gibber jabber other than conforming for the moment to your mother tongue.

Yep. You've explained that several times before and I completely "get it."

It frees the part of your brain that controls language along with the frontal lobe and its even referred to as the "third brain", it's quite natural too, how do you think languages start in the first place? We start off as toddlers gibber jabbering and I bet there is a tiny bit of stress that attaches to picking and choosing words to say, the tongue is the most powerful weapon of mankind.

OK

I admit it sounds like gibberish to me and to you, I admit that it's adlib by the spirit but definitely not adlib by thoughts.

NOW you have moved into the area of theology and are without a real explanation. When you said you made these sounds because it feels good, etc , there's no issue for anyone to dispute. When you simply stipulate that, instead of the above, it's the Holy Spirit moving in you...you have only a theory. And this one is less believable than many others since, as said before, the phonies have been documented many times over. They all claimed that it was the Holy Spirit, too, you know.

 

[Imalive]

Yep. You've explained that several times before and I completely "get it."


OK



NOW, you have move into the area of theology and are without a real explanation. When you said you made these sounds because it feels good, etc , there's no issue for anyone to dispute. When you simply stipulate that, instead of the above, it's the Holy Spirit moving in you...you have only a theory. And this one is less believable than many others since, as said before, the phonies have been documented many times over. They all claimed that it was the Holy Spirit, too, you know.

There's enough texts on it. I posted em once for Menno.
How to discern if it's good or not: look at the fruit. He got saved when he did, just like they got saved in Acts and he tested it. And he didn't go to some weird charismaniac false teacher who laid hands on him to receive it.

 

[Andrew]

Yep. You've explained that several times before and I completely "get it."


OK



NOW you have moved into the area of theology and are without a real explanation. When you said you made these sounds because it feels good, etc , there's no issue for anyone to dispute. When you simply stipulate that, instead of the above, it's the Holy Spirit moving in you...you have only a theory. And this one is less believable than many others since, as said before, the phonies have been documented many times over. They all claimed that it was the Holy Spirit, too, you know.

Teehee!
The bad apples always ruin it for the rest. By the way what's so bad about it feeling "good"? I see that as a gift in itself, 'knowing' God feels good too and so wouldn't we want to wish it on everyone? God wants us to be happy too so is it selfish or selfless? I would never have spoken tongues if I hadn't come to know God, it doesn't seem like something I would ever think of before.
I'd rather see a bunch of kids speaking tongues everyday at 4:20 than getting high, since it feels so good and all.

 

[Albion]

Teehee!
The bad apples always ruin it for the rest. By the way what's so bad about it feeling "good"?

Nothing. I thought I'd been entirely accepting on that point.

I would never have spoken tongues if I hadn't come to know God, it doesn't seem like something I would ever think of before.
I'd rather see a bunch of kids speaking tongues everyday at 4:20 than getting high, since it feels so good and all.