Five Reasons Why Babies Should be Baptized...

[Lamb]

To me that shows the dedication of his mother and grandmother to bring children up in the right way so that Timothy was wise enough to choose, thru faith, the salvation of Christ.

From infancy you have known the scriptures. That shows us that God's word was at work in him since he was a baby. There was nothing to indicate a decision had to be made. Look at John 15:16 that states we do not choose God but He chooses us. Faith is always a gift from God so that we may believe. We can't choose faith.

 

[Cassia]

From infancy you have known the scriptures. That shows us that God's word was at work in him since he was a baby. There was nothing to indicate a decision had to be made. Look at John 15:16 that states we do not choose God but He chooses us. Faith is always a gift from God so that we may believe. We can't choose faith.

Faith has an object and that object has to be Jesus Christ as the 'I am', Who w/o believing in one will die in their sins.John 8:24

Note that I said infancy as being the age before reasoning.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Faith has an object and that object has to be Jesus Christ as the 'I am', Who w/o believing in one will die in their sins.John 8:24

Note that I said infancy as being the age before reasoning.

an age for reasoning is said not to come until some time after 7 years of age. Infants are instructed in the faith long before they are 7.

 

[Cassia]

an age for reasoning is said not to come until some time after 7 years of age. Infants are instructed in the faith long before they are 7.

That is not the age of reasoning because a child is taught everything (according to phychology) before the age of 7 and everything after that generally reinforces things previously taught. Before reasoning would be infancy not childhood.

 

[Lamb]

Faith has an object and that object has to be Jesus Christ as the 'I am', Who w/o believing in one will die in their sins.John 8:24

Note that I said infancy as being the age before reasoning.

Of course faith has an object. Faith doesn't come from reasoning. We don't choose to have faith. It is a gift from God. The video shows that babies can have faith.

 

[Josiah]

The Holy Spirit can give FAITH to infants?

Yes. God can do everything.

ONLY the Holy Spirit can give faith. The Bible says it is the "gift of God." The Bible says that NO ONE can say "Jesus is Lord" (have faith in Christ) UNLESS the Holy Spirit empowers/gives it. "NO ONE." Not the handsome, 45 year old man with an IQ of 230 who has 3 theological degrees and has memorized all the words of the Bible and watched every Billy Graham Crusade..... not the 3 minute hold baby girl with Downs..... God saves..... God gives faith....

You mean an infant can have saving faith in Jesus?

That's what Jesus said. Indeed, He called on adults to have the faith of an infant. There's NOTHING about a child under the age of "X" that renders God impotent.




- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

That is not the age of reasoning because a child is taught everything (according to phychology) before the age of 7 and everything after that generally reinforces things previously taught. Before reasoning would be infancy not childhood.

The civil laws of the land do not account a child under seven as legally responsible because before that age children are regarded as not knowing right from wrong.

 

[Josiah]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teWmvtwS2-E

 

[Josiah]

This video is EXCELLENT! It's 14 minutes long (too long for many) but you can skip the first 2 minutes before he gets to the issue of infant baptism.... It WILL shake up some understandings if you are willing to give 12 minutes to listening....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q310Hg2Ifg



- Josiah

 

[Rens]

Yes. God can do everything.

ONLY the Holy Spirit can give faith. The Bible says it is the "gift of God." The Bible says that NO ONE can say "Jesus is Lord" (have faith in Christ) UNLESS the Holy Spirit empowers/gives it. "NO ONE." Not the handsome, 45 year old man with an IQ of 230 who has 3 theological degrees and has memorized all the words of the Bible and watched every Billy Graham Crusade..... not the 3 minute hold baby girl with Downs..... God saves..... God gives faith....






That's what Jesus said. Indeed, He called on adults to have the faith of an infant. There's NOTHING about a child under the age of "X" that renders God impotent.




- Josiah

If they die they go to heaven, but they are not able to accept Jesus and that they sinned and need redemption before 3 or 5, depending on the child. My eldest son, then 5, told his 3 year old brother that he had to accept Jesus now and he had no idea what he was even talking about. He was a good evangelist. Bit pushy.

 

[Rens]

Suppose someone gets baptized as a baby and then never hears the gospel, is the person saved from birth? Nope. There may have been such people, but I don't see that as a good reason to baptize babies. I'd say as soon as they have made a decision, 5 or something. To wait til they're 12, I don't see the use in that.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Suppose someone gets baptized as a baby and then never hears the gospel, is the person saved from birth? Nope. There may have been such people, but I don't see that as a good reason to baptize babies. I'd say as soon as they have made a decision, 5 or something. To wait til they're 12, I don't see the use in that.

Salvation is a process that is why being baptised is not the end of your conversion story but rather its beginning.

 

[Lamb]

Suppose someone gets baptized as a baby and then never hears the gospel, is the person saved from birth? Nope. There may have been such people, but I don't see that as a good reason to baptize babies. I'd say as soon as they have made a decision, 5 or something. To wait til they're 12, I don't see the use in that.

Jesus told His disciples how to make more disciples...baptizing and teaching. If someone is baptized but is not taught then whatever seed was planted in baptism COULD DIE. We need to be fed on God's Word, that's why sponsors/Godparents are a good thing to have because they have a responsibility to help teach the child if the parent fails.

There is no decision to make for salvation on our part. John 15:16 "You did not choose me, but I chose you" God does all the work in our salvation. That's why HE is our Savior 100%. Not 50-50.

 

[psalms 91]

Jesus told His disciples how to make more disciples...baptizing and teaching. If someone is baptized but is not taught then whatever seed was planted in baptism COULD DIE. We need to be fed on God's Word, that's why sponsors/Godparents are a good thing to have because they have a responsibility to help teach the child if the parent fails.

There is no decision to make for salvation on our part. John 15:16 "You did not choose me, but I chose you" God does all the work in our salvation. That's why HE is our Savior 100%. Not 50-50.

I have sat back with this discussion but I have a question, where does free will come in? Seems to me that you are doing away with choice here. Which it says we have or else we are all just robots that have to worship God and I thought that ius what He did not want, He wants those who willingly worship Him

 

[Lamb]

I have sat back with this discussion but I have a question, where does free will come in? Seems to me that you are doing away with choice here. Which it says we have or else we are all just robots that have to worship God and I thought that ius what He did not want, He wants those who willingly worship Him

Our will is bound to sin. There is no choice to make in order to receive salvation. John 15:16 "You did not choose me but I chose you"

You probably have been told, as many other modern evangelicals that you have to make a decision and accept Jesus into your heart in order to get saved. But scriptures do not say that. The scriptures tell us the things that GOD is doing in our salvation. HE came to earth in the form of man, lived the perfectly obedient life we could not and died on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins.

Now that atonement has been made, God uses means to get the word out, so to speak, about the good news concerning Jesus' death. Scriptures say that we are saved by grace through faith. Faith comes from hearing the word. The word is also in baptism and can bring faith to an infant. In baptism we are promised the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

Our salvation always points back to Jesus, His death and resurrection. His death for forgiveness and resurrection to know atonement was made and our resurrection is our hope.

God uses means as I said and baptism is one of those means for Him to bring us to faith (water and word, not just water). He uses mankind to spread the good news. The Gospel turns us. The Holy Spirit uses the word to actually convert us. That isn't our choice to be converted. It's the job of the Holy Spirit.

After conversion, we can turn away from God and not believe that we are forgiven. We can turn away and not trust that He exists. That's pretty much the only real choice we have since we have already entered into a relationship with Him once He gives us faith.

Our worshiping Him isn't what saves us. Our worshiping Him is the result of knowing that we are saved by Him.

God is the one who opens our eyes to see that we are forgiven and can have eternal life with Him. That's not a choice. It's an eye opener and a realization.

It's like the jailer giving the pardon and opening the cell. If we walk out of the cell, the walking out isn't what saved us. It's the pardon. The pardon wasn't our choice. If we remain in the cell, that is our choice and it will damn us.

 

[Cassia]

When I went to sunday school at the age of 4 they taught us prayer. When I prayed at the age of 4 I got answered prayer. That's when I believed in Him as my new best friend (often only friend). I didn't do anything further except acknowledge Him every night by saying good night Jesus thru-out my life. That seemed like a fleshly saving grace because I identified with Him. My early 20's was given a dream surrounded by Love for days. That seemed like a mind conversion but I felt disobedient in so many things. I didn't get baptized until I was in my 30's and that's when, with the decision to commit, that the spirit was fully awakened and He became my source in life.

 

[Josiah]

That was a great video, Josiah!! I took notes for those who don't have time to listen.


1. Baptism is a work of God

• Baptismal verses in the bible point to God doing things in baptism
  [*=1]Acts 2:38
  [*=1]Acts 22:16
  [*=1]John 3:5
  [*=1]1 Peter 3:4
  [*=1]Romans 6:34

​

2. Infants are sinners

• Baptism is always connected to forgiveness of sins
• Psalm 51:5
• Romans 3:23

3. Infants can believe

• Faith is a gift of God and the Holy Spirit can give it to whoever He wants
  • John the Baptist Luke 1:41
  • Psalm 22:9-10
  • Psalm 71:5-6
  • Luke 18:15-17 Jesus praises faith of children brought to Him

4. Households are baptized

• Lydia Acts 16:15
• Philippian Jailor Acts 16:33-34
• Stephanus 1 Corinthians 1:16
• Cornelius Acts 11:14
• When someone receives the gift of faith they bring their entire family for baptism

5. God includes children in His gracious promise

• See this throughout the Old Testament
• Abraham > Circumcision for infants too
• Colossians 2:11 Baptism is the new great fulfillment of circumcision, this brings infants into the new covenant. The new covenant brings in more people than the Old Testament covenant.

Thanks!



.

 

[psalms 91]

Our will is bound to sin. There is no choice to make in order to receive salvation. John 15:16 "You did not choose me but I chose you"

You probably have been told, as many other modern evangelicals that you have to make a decision and accept Jesus into your heart in order to get saved. But scriptures do not say that. The scriptures tell us the things that GOD is doing in our salvation. HE came to earth in the form of man, lived the perfectly obedient life we could not and died on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins.

Now that atonement has been made, God uses means to get the word out, so to speak, about the good news concerning Jesus' death. Scriptures say that we are saved by grace through faith. Faith comes from hearing the word. The word is also in baptism and can bring faith to an infant. In baptism we are promised the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

Our salvation always points back to Jesus, His death and resurrection. His death for forgiveness and resurrection to know atonement was made and our resurrection is our hope.

God uses means as I said and baptism is one of those means for Him to bring us to faith (water and word, not just water). He uses mankind to spread the good news. The Gospel turns us. The Holy Spirit uses the word to actually convert us. That isn't our choice to be converted. It's the job of the Holy Spirit.

After conversion, we can turn away from God and not believe that we are forgiven. We can turn away and not trust that He exists. That's pretty much the only real choice we have since we have already entered into a relationship with Him once He gives us faith.

Our worshiping Him isn't what saves us. Our worshiping Him is the result of knowing that we are saved by Him.

God is the one who opens our eyes to see that we are forgiven and can have eternal life with Him. That's not a choice. It's an eye opener and a realization.

It's like the jailer giving the pardon and opening the cell. If we walk out of the cell, the walking out isn't what saved us. It's the pardon. The pardon wasn't our choice. If we remain in the cell, that is our choice and it will damn us.

Are you forgetting Romans 10:9-10, there is a process we have to do to recieve Christ as these verses tell us. I agree that the Holy Spirit draws but it is still a choice

 

[Josiah]

That is not the age of reasoning because a child is taught everything (according to phychology) before the age of 7 and everything after that generally reinforces things previously taught. Before reasoning would be infancy not childhood.

Correct. "Age of REASONing" is not from Scripture but from secular psychology based on Enlightenment concepts of "reason" trumping all else.

The application of this to God is not only abiblical but unbiblical.... God is NOT restricted by the application of Enlightenment theories or current psychological beliefs..... Nor is faith the product of Enlightenment "reason" or psychological theories. Faith is the gift of God. Faith is given by the Holy Spirit. NO ONE is capable of even saying "Jesus is Lord" (sincerely) UNLESS the Holy Spirit causes that. NO ONE. Not the person who lives after the Enlightenment and has an IQ of 300 and two doctorate degrees in logic and has memorized every word in the Bible.... such CANNOT come to faith. CANNOT. The Bible says NO ONE can. Not the baby with Downs Syndrome..... not Albert Einstein.... not even Donald Trump!!!! Reason has nothing to do with it.... age has nothign to do with it.... IQ has nothing to do with it..... college degrees has nothing to do with it. It's ALL the Holy Spirit! It's all GOD! Faith is not something WE create in our brain (doing God a great favor and making ourselves the reason for our salvation), no, faith is something God GIVES and places into our heart (making God the Savior and the reason for our salvation). God is not rendered impotent by those under a (never disclosed) IQ. And God certainly is not rendered impotent by a philosophy that comes from the Enlightenment in the 18th Century or some (probably heathen, lol) psychologist..... Life is always the gift of God: physical and spiritual.



- Josiah

 

[Cassia]

Correct. "Age of REASONing" is not from Scripture but from secular psychology based on Enlightenment concepts of "reason" trumping all else.

The application of this to God is not only abiblical but unbiblical.... God is NOT restricted by the application of Enlightenment theories or current psychological beliefs..... Nor is faith the product of Enlightenment "reason" or psychological theories. Faith is the gift of God. Faith is given by the Holy Spirit. NO ONE is capable of even saying "Jesus is Lord" (sincerely) UNLESS the Holy Spirit causes that. NO ONE. Not the person who lives after the Enlightenment and has an IQ of 300 and two doctorate degrees in logic and has memorized every word in the Bible.... such CANNOT come to faith. CANNOT. The Bible says NO ONE can. Not the baby with Downs Syndrome..... not Albert Einstein.... not even Donald Trump!!!! Reason has nothing to do with it.... age has nothign to do with it.... IQ has nothing to do with it..... college degrees has nothing to do with it. It's ALL the Holy Spirit! It's all GOD! Faith is not something WE create in our brain (doing God a great favor and making ourselves the reason for our salvation), no, faith is something God GIVES and places into our heart (making God the Savior and the reason for our salvation). God is not rendered impotent by those under a (never disclosed) IQ. And God certainly is not rendered impotent by a philosophy that comes from the Enlightenment in the 18th Century or some (probably heathen, lol) psychologist..... Life is always the gift of God: physical and spiritual.



- Josiah

The point is it comes with consent. If I was baptised as an infant with no recollection of being baptized, I still believe it's the parents or guardians that are given the responsibility not the infant. They are held accountable not the baby for following in the way of the Lord by teaching the child as it grows, like Timothy's teachers. If, as I said in the previous post about my experience as a child, I had never gone to sunday school would I know how to prayer that began the first contact? Probably not, my parents used sunday school as a babysitter. In my 20's the dream came but I was busy living for me. Baptizm is a commitment to live for Him, to die to self. An infant cannot do that.