Five Reasons Why Babies Should be Baptized...

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,204
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I haven't learnt much more about infant baptism since.

The remedy for that is to read and learn. At one point in the recent past I recommended a book or two to you. If/when you receive them they will be helpful sources for learning.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,204
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
So an adult who presents for baptism does not do so of his own accord/volition, but it is a work of the Holy Spirit?

Could be both, right? Enabled and encouraged by the Holy Spirit and using his/her own accord/volition to do the necessary things to receive baptism.
 

Cassia

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
1,735
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
The remedy for that is to read and learn. At one point in the recent past I recommended a book or two to you. If/when you receive them they will be helpful sources for learning.
'The Teaching of Christ: A Catholic Catechism for Adults' did arrive from Amazon but I haven't had a chance to look at it. I doubt it would have anything on infant baptism tho.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,204
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
'The Teaching of Christ: A Catholic Catechism for Adults' did arrive from Amazon but I haven't had a chance to look at it. I doubt it would have anything on infant baptism tho.

It does, be assured.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,204
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
What scripture does it refer to?

I'd have to look it up. It would be quicker if you looked it up in your copy. The chapter will refer either to Baptism or the the sacraments of initiation
 

Cassia

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
1,735
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Rites of initiation of Adults is listed. Nothing of infant baptism in either 'salvation history and baptism' nor in the 'baptismal litergy'.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,204
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Rites of initiation of Adults is listed. Nothing of infant baptism in either 'salvation history and baptism' nor in the 'baptismal litergy'.

It is in the chapter on sacraments of initiation in a section called infant baptism. In my copy (which is an earlier edition) it is on page 458
 

Cassia

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
1,735
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
It is in the chapter on sacraments of initiation in a section called infant baptism. In my copy (which is an earlier edition) it is on page 458
Scripture cited is the family of Cornelius as proof of infant baptism, John 3:5 as theological reasoning and 1 Peter 2:9 as the result. I can see that as reasurance for the parent in case of infant death but not much in the way of assurance of scripture. I think that may fit in more with the baptism of desire where those who die w/o baptism but have their desires accepted as such (but that would preclude knowledge) or the prayers of the righteous before death occurs as in the case of David's 1st child with Bathsheba.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,204
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Scripture cited is the family of Cornelius as proof of infant baptism, John 3:5 as theological reasoning and 1 Peter 2:9 as the result. I can see that as reassurance for the parent in case of infant death but not much in the way of assurance of scripture. I think that may fit in more with the baptism of desire where those who die w/o baptism but have their desires accepted as such (but that would preclude knowledge) or the prayers of the righteous before death occurs as in the case of David's 1st child with Bathsheba.

The Catholic Church does not tech sola scriptura so for Catholics apostolic Tradition and the living interpretive authority of the Catholic Church have a role in deciding what is true and what is not.
 

Cassia

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
1,735
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Whereas imc if it's not in scripture then I see no need to study traditions to find the human mindset. I'll consider it to be a mystery as to when faith is given even tho it says it's upon hearing. Someone may argue that infants have ears.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,204
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Whereas imc if it's not in scripture then I see no need to study traditions to find the human mindset. I'll consider it to be a mystery as to when faith is given even tho it says it's upon hearing. Someone may argue that infants have ears.

You're a Protestant so it is no surprise that you adhere to sola scriptura
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I tend to prefer scripture.


As do I. I see the call to baptize in Scripture, I don't see in Scripture "but you are prohibited to baptize any under the magical age of X." And I don't see in Scripture, "but you are forbidden to do this unless the receiver has first recited The Sinner's Prayer or appropriately responded to an altar call or secured enough Christian education or have an IQ of at least Y."

It seems to me the argument is this: "If Scripture does not specifically state a command applies to a certain group of persons, then it is forbidden to include that group." The point is, "Where does Scripture specifically state we may apply the Great Commission to those under the age of X? Where, specifically, is that stated or even exampled?" Frankly, I think the argument is backwards. And I think those making the point don't accept their own argument. And I find it a very dangerous rubric: after all, it could be used to dogmatically insist we are forbidden to love the elderly because the Great Commandment ("Love") doesn't specificallty state, "and this includes all those over the the magical age of "Y" so it would be forbidden. Or to forbid love toward African-Americans since there is no verse that specifically states, "And this includes those of the Negroid race" (and there is no example of such being loved in the Bible). I find it a bad rubric. A twisted and very inappropriate use of Scripture.



Thank you.


- Josiah
 

TurtleHare

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 29, 2015
Messages
1,057
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
So an adult who presents for baptism does not do so of his own accord/volition, but it is a work of the Holy Spirit?

It ain't the leading of the devil!
 

atpollard

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
2,573
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Do babies form a distinct "nation"?
 

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
32,653
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Do babies form a distinct "nation"?

People form nations. Jesus wants people to baptized. The promises of baptism only apply to people. Babies are people. Why forbid them?
 

atpollard

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
2,573
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
People form nations. Jesus wants people to baptized. The promises of baptism only apply to people. Babies are people. Why forbid them?

I was actually just objecting to the misapplication of that verse in the video.
The point of the speaker was not the point that Jesus was making in the text. Even if we are commanded by God to baptize infants, bad exegesis of that verse does not support it. It was a command by Jesus to carry the Gospel beyond the children of Israel and to all peoples (all nations). The verse neither adds nor subtracts from the argument on baptizing babies. It was silly to choose it as the key verse supporting the doctrine.
 

Cassia

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
1,735
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
It was silly to choose it as the key verse supporting the doctrine.
It does seem to be key doctrine of Lutherans .. I wonder if it was conceeded that infants could be baptized what other doctrine they might have.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,204
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Why does it matter to any of you what other people from other faith traditions do about baptism?
 
Top Bottom