Experiment.

[Andrew]

You approve of genocide if God does it and if God commands it.

lol so you are playing the role of an antagonist atheist right?
I mean.... Right??

I would reply with "yes, in fact you can get ready for the great genocide of all wickedness when Gods kingdom on Earth comes"

 

[MoreCoffee]

Don’t argue with me argue with God. veralls:

But it is not God typing messages to me about why Genocide is okay if God does it and when God orders it. You are, my friend.

 

[MennoSota]

You approve of genocide if God does it and if God commands it.

When a criminal is judged, does it matter how they die for their crimes of treason against the King?
I find your attempt to judge God laughable, just as I see God laughing at the atheist.
Psalm 37:13
...but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he sees that his day is coming.

 

[MoreCoffee]

lol so you are playing the role of an antagonist atheist right?
I mean.... Right??

I would reply with "yes, in fact you can get ready for the great genocide of all wickedness when Gods kingdom on Earth comes"

No, I am not an atheist so I cannot play that role without deceit. I am asking questions that are real and that arise from what is written in holy scripture.

 

[MoreCoffee]

When a criminal is judged, does it matter how they die for their crimes of treason against the King?
I find your attempt to judge God laughable, just as I see God laughing at the atheist.
Psalm 37:13
...but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he sees that his day is coming.

The analogy doesn't apply; infants, women, children, and domestic animals are not criminals in the case of infants no crime can be committed and animals are not usually regarded as exercising intelligent deliberate malice even if they do something harmful. So the question is not "was Alalek wicked and deserving of punishment as an errant and wicked nation?" but rather "was it right, moral, and good for Saul to slaughter infants, women, children simply because Samuel the prophet said that Jehovah wanted it to be done?"

 

[MennoSota]

The analogy doesn't apply; infants, women, children, and domestic animals are not criminals in the case of infants no crime can be committed and animals are not usually regarded as exercising intelligent deliberate malice even if they do something harmful. So the question is not "was Alalek wicked and deserving of punishment as an errant and wicked nation?" but rather "was it right, moral, and good for Saul to slaughter infants, women, children simply because Samuel the prophet said that Jehovah wanted it to be done?"

All creation is subject to the curse. Thank your rebellious self for that.
You make me laugh as you apply a hypocrites post-modern judgment. Thanks for humoring me.

 

[Tigger]

But it is not God typing messages to me about why Genocide is okay if God does it and when God orders it. You are, my friend.

Nope, God said it first through scripture.

1 Peter 1:21

For no prophecy was ever brought forth by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Andrew]

No, I am not an atheist so I cannot play that role without deceit. I am asking questions that are real and that arise from what is written in holy scripture.

Why would you question God? Do you have sympathy for the wicked savages that God ordered to be slain? That's not very Christian of you tsk tsk tsk!

 

[MoreCoffee]

Nope, God said it first through scripture.

1 Peter 1:21

For no prophecy was ever brought forth by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Yes, I am familiar with the passages and the reassuring words about inspiration and the production of prophetic writings by the Spirit's work in human beings. I'd say "that's a given" and it is for many and it certainly is in Catholic teaching yet it does not address the moral issues raised by the imprecatory psalms and the genocidal passages nor does it tell us why God's allegedly objective moral standards do not clearly state

• Slavery is wrong; it is immoral to think that one human being may rightly own other human beings
• war is bad and ought to be avoided whenever that is possible
• wars of conquest and wars of extermination are wicked no two ways about it
• women are not property and ought not be treated as inferiors
• it is wicked to persecute people because they are different from the alleged norm - people ought to be assess according to their works and character not according to deviations from alleged normalcy

and so forth.

It seems strange that almighty, all wise, just, good, compassionate, and loving God produced a book with morals that are at times appalling.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Why would you question God?

It is holy scripture that is questioned; God may or may not be the author of it and if he is then God is questioned but if he is not then God is not questioned and if God is partially the author of holy scripture and people are partially the authors then maybe both God and the people who wrote the holy scriptures are questioned because of what is written.

Do you have sympathy for the wicked savages that God ordered to be slain?

Yes. I have more than sympathy for them I am one and I suspect so are we all if we take what scripture says about humanity seriously. But they are human beings too like us, made in God's image according to the scriptures and that counts for something. Hence the commandment to love one another as God has loved his people.

That's not very Christian of you tsk tsk tsk!

If having empathy for the murdered is unchristian maybe that signifies that there's something wrong with that kind of Christianity.

 

[Andrew]

It is holy scripture that is questioned; God may or may not be the author of it and if he is then God is questioned but if he is not then God is not questioned and if God is partially the author of holy scripture and people are partially the authors then maybe both God and the people who wrote the holy scriptures are questioned because of what is written.


Yes. I have more than sympathy for them I am one and I suspect so are we all if we take what scripture says about humanity seriously. But they are human beings too like us, made in God's image according to the scriptures and that counts for something. Hence the commandment to love one another as God has loved his people.



If having empathy for the murdered is unchristian maybe that signifies that there's something wrong with that kind of Christianity.

You would make a good Pope MC, I would vote but unfortunately im not a cardinal yet

 

[MoreCoffee]

You would make a good Pope MC, I would vote but unfortunately im not a cardinal yet

I have the good fortune not to be a candidate

 

[Tigger]

Yes, I am familiar with the passages and the reassuring words about inspiration and the production of prophetic writings by the Spirit's work in human beings. I'd say "that's a given" and it is for many and it certainly is in Catholic teaching yet it does not address the moral issues raised by the imprecatory psalms and the genocidal passages nor does it tell us why God's allegedly objective moral standards do not clearly state

• Slavery is wrong; it is immoral to think that one human being may rightly own other human beings
• war is bad and ought to be avoided whenever that is possible
• wars of conquest and wars of extermination are wicked no two ways about it
• women are not property and ought not be treated as inferiors
• it is wicked to persecute people because they are different from the alleged norm - people ought to be assess according to their works and character not according to deviations from alleged normalcy

and so forth.

It seems strange that almighty, all wise, just, good, compassionate, and loving God produced a book with morals that are at times appalling.

So I've explained how 'I' reconcile difficult passages so what is your current position of the matter?

 

[Arsenios]

You would make a good Pope MC, I would vote but unfortunately im not a cardinal yet

Proof Positive for any and all atheists that there IS a God!


Arsenios

 

[MoreCoffee]

So I've explained how 'I' reconcile difficult passages so what is your current position of the matter?

I'm undecided. I want to say "thy are just bad, simply bad" and leave it at that because they are bad. But Christians - especially evangelicals - get upset by that sort of comment. They appear to want some sort of affirmation that God did right to exterminate people and order Saul to kill babies and even to have the psalmist write about the happiness one feels when one's enemies' babies are dashed against the rocks. I can't accommodate that desire. It is just bad to kill babies and children and mothers at home even if their ancestors were especially wicked.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Proof Positive for any and all atheists that there IS a God!


Arsenios

You made me laugh.

 

[Arsenios]

You made me laugh.

Glory to God!

I mean, you ARE, after all, a HARD case!

Isn't it past your bedtime?


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

I'm undecided. I want to say "thy are just bad, simply bad" and leave it at that because they are bad. But Christians - especially evangelicals - get upset by that sort of comment. They appear to want some sort of affirmation that God did right to exterminate people and order Saul to kill babies and even to have the psalmist write about the happiness one feels when one's enemies' babies are dashed against the rocks. I can't accommodate that desire. It is just bad to kill babies and children and mothers at home even if their ancestors were especially wicked.

So do you support Trump's attack on the Democrats wanting to make it legal to kill babies after they survive late term abortions and are viable?

Whoops! Wrong forum!

Children ARE discipled by their parents...

No matter what that discipleship turns out to be...

So that the killing of children of evil means eliminating in one's soul the first onset of sin...

"Taking every thought captive..."


Arsenios

 

[MoreCoffee]

So do you support Trump's attack on the Democrats wanting to make it legal to kill babies after they survive late term abortions and are viable?

Whoops! Wrong forum!

Children ARE discipled by their parents...

No matter what that discipleship turns out to be...

So that the killing of children of evil means eliminating in one's soul the first onset of sin...

"Taking every thought captive..."


Arsenios

I was thinking of this passage:

1Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Am'alek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.'​

 

[Arsenios]

I was thinking of this passage:

1Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Am'alek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.'​

Working backward toward loving your enemies, this is a figure in pre-Incarnational time of the assault one must needs take up in post-Incarnatinal on the world to overcome it - eg to take nothing from it whatsoever, even what seems useful... The Jews, also in a figure, in that cast took some things, and some wives too, because the women were beautiful to look upon - With predictably evil results...

This is why the Sacred History of the Jews is such a departure, for God is moving in them... And He is giving them by their written history a prefigurement of the times to come after Christ... eg That history does not stand on its own ethical terms, but on its sacred meaning as a typos of living in the holy manner of Christ in obedience to the Father, and us similarly obedient... Again, one cannot understand what is written on its own, but only as a typos of something utterly different to come...

How can the Flood of Noah be understood except as a typos of Baptism?
Or the crossing of the Red Sea by the Israelites except as a type of Baptism?
Or the Baptism of Christ by John except as the fulfillment of this History?

How can we understand the captivity of Egypt and the Israelites escape from it through water as anything other than man living in the captivity of sin and his cleansing from that sin through water?


Arsenios