USA Donald Trump on illegal immigrants

[psalms 91]

Noone should be surprised by him, he has always been flambouyant

 

[Tallguy88]

I have a distant cousin who is in a long term relationship with an illegal girl. They have two daughters together. They would get married, but they can't because she is illegal. Funny thing is that he doesn't speak Spanish, she barely speaks English, but their kids are fluent in both.

Mexicans are good people on the whole. Hardworking, family oriented, and religious. Trump was out of line with his broad brush remarks.

 

[Tallguy88]

Illegal immigrants are criminals by definition, hence the word "illegal" in their name - they've broken the immigration laws by either overstaying a visa or not having a visa in the first place.

Whether they are criminals in ways other than breaking immigration laws isn't something that can usefully be determined to an unknown number of people. We might argue that those who disregard immigration laws are unlikely to care much about other laws, but then we could say the same about people who fiddle their expenses or speed on the interstate. Arguably one might expect an illegal immigrant to lay as low as possible and avoid breaking laws, knowing that the slightest brush with the law will most likely result in deportation.

Being in the country illegally is not actually a crime, it is a civil offense. So illegal immigrants aren't criminals on the sole basis of being here illegally.

 

[Hammster]

Do you believe most of the illegals in this country are criminals or can they be okay? Trump says the Mexicans are rapists and killers.

Please provide the actual quote.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[tango]

Being in the country illegally is not actually a crime, it is a civil offense. So illegal immigrants aren't criminals on the sole basis of being here illegally.

OK, would it work any better to say they are lawbreakers?

To be honest I think it's little more than semantic nitpicking (especially in this context) because a broad brush comment that assumes every single resident of a country is a criminal is a stupid thing to say.

If Mr Trump truly did say that all Mexicans are rapists and killers it's hard to see how anyone can take him seriously.

 

[psalms 91]

It is hard to understand how anyone could vote for him

 

[Hammster]

OK, would it work any better to say they are lawbreakers?

To be honest I think it's little more than semantic nitpicking (especially in this context) because a broad brush comment that assumes every single resident of a country is a criminal is a stupid thing to say.

If Mr Trump truly did say that all Mexicans are rapists and killers it's hard to see how anyone can take him seriously.

Can you provide the quote?


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[Hammster]

So nobody can provide the quote? Doesn't seem to be a shortage of comments on it, though.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[pmdhjp]

There is more to what he said, but here is some of it.

During his campaign kickoff speech on June 16, The Celebrity Apprentice host said, “the U.S. has become a dumping ground for everybody else’s problems. When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best.” He added, “They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

 

[Hammster]

So where's the part where he says all Mexicans are rapists and killers?


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[tango]

There is more to what he said, but here is some of it.

During his campaign kickoff speech on June 16, The Celebrity Apprentice host said, “the U.S. has become a dumping ground for everybody else’s problems. When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best.” He added, “They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

So something of an assumption that an inert lump of rock slightly south of another inert lump of rock is somehow sending undesirables?

Of course part of the reason for having immigration rules is that you can decide whether someone wanting to come and live in your country is an undesirable or not, however your laws define "undesirable". But presumably the inert lump of rock to the east of the water east of Trump's lump of rock only sends good people, because presumably Europeans aren't murderers and rapists. Only some of them.

 

[pmdhjp]

Have no idea, I didn't claim he said that so I can't help you. I believe the entire speech from June 16 is available on youtube.

 

[Highlander]

So something of an assumption that an inert lump of rock slightly south of another inert lump of rock is somehow sending undesirables?

Of course part of the reason for having immigration rules is that you can decide whether someone wanting to come and live in your country is an undesirable or not, however your laws define "undesirable". But presumably the inert lump of rock to the east of the water east of Trump's lump of rock only sends good people, because presumably Europeans aren't murderers and rapists. Only some of them.

Actually, that "lump of rock to the east of the water" sends its immigrants through the USA's FRONT DOOR. A.K.A. The legal way.

They do not sneak in like the lump of rock to the south. A.K.A. The ILLEGAL way -- and they do have hardened criminals and drug dealers mixed in with the good people who also arrive.

 

[Hammster]

So something of an assumption that an inert lump of rock slightly south of another inert lump of rock is somehow sending undesirables?

Of course part of the reason for having immigration rules is that you can decide whether someone wanting to come and live in your country is an undesirable or not, however your laws define "undesirable". But presumably the inert lump of rock to the east of the water east of Trump's lump of rock only sends good people, because presumably Europeans aren't murderers and rapists. Only some of them.

I'm sure that when most people, in normal conversation, refer to a country they are not referring to actual dirt that the country sits on. In most cases (and especially in political speeches) they are referring to the government of the country.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[psalms 91]

Actually, that "lump of rock to the east of the water" sends its immigrants through the USA's FRONT DOOR. A.K.A. The legal way.

They do not sneak in like the lump of rock to the south. A.K.A. The ILLEGAL way -- and they do have hardened criminals and drug dealers mixed in with the good people who also arrive.

Truw but we should not refer to all of them in thta way

 

[Hammster]

Truw but we should not refer to all of them in thta way

Trump would agree. He didn't refer to all of them in that way.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[tango]

Actually, that "lump of rock to the east of the water" sends its immigrants through the USA's FRONT DOOR. A.K.A. The legal way.

They do not sneak in like the lump of rock to the south. A.K.A. The ILLEGAL way -- and they do have hardened criminals and drug dealers mixed in with the good people who also arrive.

Sure, and how many Hispanics come through official channels and have all the right documentation?

In the US I don't doubt for a minute that you have a lot of illegal immigration, simply because it's relatively easy to get from Mexico into states like Texas and disperse from there. In Western Europe the issue is with illegal immigration from Africa and Asia, where people can get most of the way over land and then maybe have to make a relatively short sea crossing.

Europe has its fair share of criminals of all flavours, just like I imagine every other nation does.

 

[tango]

I'm sure that when most people, in normal conversation, refer to a country they are not referring to actual dirt that the country sits on. In most cases (and especially in political speeches) they are referring to the government of the country.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

Maybe they do, but to imply that the government is merely dumping its unwanted citizens on another country ignores many other reasons why people would try and live somewhere else, legally or otherwise.

Personally I've never felt the need to flee my home land with nothing aside from the clothes I happen to be wearing at the time. I've never felt the need to hide inside a diesel tanker, or cling to the underside of a truck, or climb inside the landing gear of an aircraft, in a desperate bid to escape whatever was wrong with my homeland.

If I were desperately hard up and my government offered me money to wriggle through a hole in a fence to live in another country I'd be tempted. If the government offered me money to do something that put my well-being (maybe even my life) in danger, I'd have to be seriously desperate to consider that one.

In the UK (London in particular) there are a huge number of Polish people. They arrived from Poland, many own businesses, most of them work very hard. It's frankly embarrassing to see the differences between a lot of English business and a lot of Polish businesses. When I needed some decorating work done I invited three companies to quote. The Polish guy showed up, looked over the job, talked through how he proposed to tackle it, and gave me a price. The English guy showed up, sucked air through his teeth, didn't want to commit to part of the work (but said he'd be willing to charge on a per-hour basis to do it), then didn't even bother to submit a quote/estimate. A third guy (an Oriental guy) responded much the same as the Polish guy but quoted a higher price. So the Polish guy got the job, he sent two Polish workers to paint my house, and you'd struggle to fault anything about the job they did.

 

[onlyme]

Maybe they do, but to imply that the government is merely dumping its unwanted citizens on another country ignores many other reasons why people would try and live somewhere else, legally or otherwise.

Personally I've never felt the need to flee my home land with nothing aside from the clothes I happen to be wearing at the time. I've never felt the need to hide inside a diesel tanker, or cling to the underside of a truck, or climb inside the landing gear of an aircraft, in a desperate bid to escape whatever was wrong with my homeland.

If I were desperately hard up and my government offered me money to wriggle through a hole in a fence to live in another country I'd be tempted. If the government offered me money to do something that put my well-being (maybe even my life) in danger, I'd have to be seriously desperate to consider that one.

In the UK (London in particular) there are a huge number of Polish people. They arrived from Poland, many own businesses, most of them work very hard. It's frankly embarrassing to see the differences between a lot of English business and a lot of Polish businesses. When I needed some decorating work done I invited three companies to quote. The Polish guy showed up, looked over the job, talked through how he proposed to tackle it, and gave me a price. The English guy showed up, sucked air through his teeth, didn't want to commit to part of the work (but said he'd be willing to charge on a per-hour basis to do it), then didn't even bother to submit a quote/estimate. A third guy (an Oriental guy) responded much the same as the Polish guy but quoted a higher price. So the Polish guy got the job, he sent two Polish workers to paint my house, and you'd struggle to fault anything about the job they did.

The big companies wanted the EU to expand so that they could hire ppl and pay them less, if they built their factories in Eastern Europe.

Part of this is that competitive workers can move to Western Europe.

NAFTA and relations with Mexico are similar, in some ways.

 

[psalms 91]

The big companies wanted the EU to expand so that they could hire ppl and pay them less, if they built their factories in Eastern Europe.

Part of this is that competitive workers can move to Western Europe.

NAFTA and relations with Mexico are similar, in some ways.

NAFTA was a complete disaster for the american worker