Does the Liturgy serve a purpose?

[visionary]

How do you mean by your last statement?

For many their dose of religious comes once a week for a little over a hour. It is liturgy. It is a sermon. It is a songs. It is Lord's Prayer. Offering. Not all in the order I gave it, and repeat of a few like different songs and liturgy. That's it and these people will go home and call themselves Christians. Some do not even attend except at Christmas and Easter and is only because of their religious programming to do so at minimum.

Does any of this religious endeavors in relationship to one church or another bring these people any closer to God? We would hope so. But alas, for the majority, nothing but family and traditions is what leads them.

 

[MoreCoffee]

For many their dose of religious comes once a week for a little over a hour. It is liturgy. It is a sermon. It is a songs. It is Lord's Prayer. Offering. Not all in the order I gave it, and repeat of a few like different songs and liturgy. That's it and these people will go home and call themselves Christians. Some do not even attend except at Christmas and Easter and is only because of their religious programming to do so at minimum.

Does any of this religious endeavors in relationship to one church or another bring these people any closer to God? We would hope so. But alas, for the majority, nothing but family and traditions is what leads them.

Is it better to have christianity once a week for one hour - as your post suggests - or to have none? The folk as Westboro Baptist Church have a whole lot of their brand of christianity without liturgy but with sermons and songs. Is that better than none?

 

[Lamb]

For many their dose of religious comes once a week for a little over a hour. It is liturgy. It is a sermon. It is a songs. It is Lord's Prayer. Offering. Not all in the order I gave it, and repeat of a few like different songs and liturgy. That's it and these people will go home and call themselves Christians. Some do not even attend except at Christmas and Easter and is only because of their religious programming to do so at minimum.

Does any of this religious endeavors in relationship to one church or another bring these people any closer to God? We would hope so. But alas, for the majority, nothing but family and traditions is what leads them.

For "many". Are these factual statements or just some opinion you've thrown out? Are there some statistics to back up the claim of "many" to prove that the liturgical members aren't Christian enough for you? Your type of wording seems to indicate that they aren't truly Christian and yet, God calls them His own.

 

[psalms 91]

For "many". Are these factual statements or just some opinion you've thrown out? Are there some statistics to back up the claim of "many" to prove that the liturgical members aren't Christian enough for you? Your type of wording seems to indicate that they aren't truly Christian and yet, God calls them His own.

Saying the sinners prayer 40 years ago and then doing nothing since does not make one a christian. Jesus said those who love me will obey me, obedience to the word and to the leading of the Holy Spirit is whta is required of us once we believe, we are to grow and mature, and many dont. Look around at the churchs, declining attendance and then look at those who do attend and see how many you think are furthering His kingdom and have a deep personal relationship with Him. It is not rocket science and you well know that there are no figures for something like this but to anyone who cares to look it is evident in the state of our churchs and the state of this nation.

 

[Lamb]

Saying the sinners prayer 40 years ago and then doing nothing since does not make one a christian. Jesus said those who love me will obey me, obedience to the word and to the leading of the Holy Spirit is whta is required of us once we believe, we are to grow and mature, and many dont. Look around at the churchs, declining attendance and then look at those who do attend and see how many you think are furthering His kingdom and have a deep personal relationship with Him. It is not rocket science and you well know that there are no figures for something like this but to anyone who cares to look it is evident in the state of our churchs and the state of this nation.

I don't believe in the sinners prayer at all for salvation. The Savior saves, not a prayer.

If there are no facts to back up evidence then why make claims to try to deceive? I don't get it.

We aren't saved by our own actions. We can't DO anything to save ourselves. Working our our salvation through our lives is not equivalent to working for salvation. God gives us faith and He sustains our faith. We can go to church and be fed on His Word. Why is that such a huge problem?

 

[visionary]

I don't believe in the sinners prayer at all for salvation. The Savior saves, not a prayer.

If there are no facts to back up evidence then why make claims to try to deceive? I don't get it.

We aren't saved by our own actions. We can't DO anything to save ourselves. Working our our salvation through our lives is not equivalent to working for salvation. God gives us faith and He sustains our faith. We can go to church and be fed on His Word. Why is that such a huge problem?

Let's draw a line between those who enter into the covenant of salvation and those who have yet to accept the offer. If you enter into this covenant, you are not working on or for salvation but living your life in the covenant. It shows whose child you are, who you serve, who you worship, who you believe in, and what relationship you have with Him.

 

[Lamb]

Let's draw a line between those who enter into the covenant of salvation and those who have yet to accept the offer. If you enter into this covenant, you are not working on or for salvation but living your life in the covenant. It shows whose child you are, who you serve, who you worship, who you believe in, and what relationship you have with Him.

How do you feel about liturgical churches and the statement you've made above?

 

[psalms 91]

How do you feel about those that go to church and that is the extent of their christian walk? How do you feel about those who show little fruit after years of being in a church or a church that fails to reach out to the world around them

 

[Lamb]

How do you feel about those that go to church and that is the extent of their christian walk? How do you feel about those who show little fruit after years of being in a church or a church that fails to reach out to the world around them

So you don't believe the Holy Spirit guides the Christian at all in his walk? Isn't that what you're doubting and questioning? Do you see that it a judgment you're placing on others in the life of someone you can't see?

Those who are in church are being fed by Him by His Word.

 

[visionary]

How do you feel about liturgical churches and the statement you've made above?

Dependency on liturgical protocols decreased the inspired movements of God upon the people.

 

[Lamb]

Dependency on liturgical protocols decreased the inspired movements of God upon the people.

How are you defining "liturgical protocols"?

In the liturgy, actual scripture is used throughout. God's Word is feeding His people.

 

[visionary]

Stand up, sit down, kneel, sing, depending on which liturgy.

 

[Lamb]

Stand up, sit down, kneel, sing, depending on which liturgy.

I don't understand why doing any of that is a problem? How does it counteract the fact that God's Word is recited, chanted, sung, preached, read throughout the entire liturgy?

 

[Lamb]

So I pretty much heard one time from someone(not sure if they're on here) that the Liturgy is nothing more than wasted time for those in the pews. And this annoyed me because they came off saying it's a waste of time and everything going on doesn't do anything.

Since it seems to have been an issue with my threads, I'll give my thoughts to make those individuals happy.

I disagree with that individual, specifically because of what the Liturgy is. The Liturgy in Orthodoxy is mostly comprised of Scripture, so right there you have the Word of God in use. Secondly on a personal level, when I go to church when I can, I marvel at the beauty of the Liturgy which in turn only makes me feel closer to God. The words being said and what goes into it is amazing and I say quite fitting for us worshiping God. In the Liturgy at the center is the Eucharist.

So I find it has a purpose, regardless of me growing up in it, I've taken the time to look over how it works and what I believe and I can say it serves a purpose. The purpose of us being able to glorify God in the liturgical manner that combined with the beauty of His House and the service with all it contains, culminates to one thing: Christ is the King, and so it is fitting.

Reading back through the OP...George states that the liturgy is mostly comprised of scripture.

Here is the power of scripture and the Holy Spirit using it that makes the liturgy something God uses to feed His flock:

Romans 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

John 3:34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

1 Thessalonians 2:13 And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human word, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is indeed at work in you who believe.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Galatians 3:2 Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

1 Thessalonians 1:5 for our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction; just as you know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake.

Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God.

 

[visionary]

I don't understand why doing any of that is a problem? How does it counteract the fact that God's Word is recited, chanted, sung, preached, read throughout the entire liturgy?

How does it counteract? what fact? The fact that "seeking God" is replaced with mouthing in repetitive manner without sincerely "seeking Him". Now can someone sincerely "seek Him" while performing the unison activity... YES.. Can someone go through the motions without seeking Him? YES...

Here in lies the problem, the level of "seeking Him" is minimal at best and no greater than taught. Until someone goes the extra mile with God, the status quo is satisfactory for most, thinking they have done what God requires.

 

[JRT]

Liturgy is entirely the work of believers. There have been many different liturgies over the centuries. The liturgies followed in most Christian churches today are largely based on the synagogue liturgy devised by the Pharisees in the centuries before Jesus. In fact, Matthew's gospel appears to have been deliberately crafted to fit the first century synagogue liturgy. Liturgies serve the purpose of providing a familiar structure for worship services. However, I do believe that worship leaders should reserve a degree of flexibility that would permit changes for special occasions.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The liturgy is the work of God.

 

[psalms 91]

Liturgy is entirely the work of believers. There have been many different liturgies over the centuries. The liturgies followed in most Christian churches today are largely based on the synagogue liturgy devised by the Pharisees in the centuries before Jesus. In fact, Matthew's gospel appears to have been deliberately crafted to fit the first century synagogue liturgy. Liturgies serve the purpose of providing a familiar structure for worship services. However, I do believe that worship leaders should reserve a degree of flexibility that would permit changes for special occasions.

Yup you are right

 

[Lamb]

Liturgy is entirely the work of believers. There have been many different liturgies over the centuries. The liturgies followed in most Christian churches today are largely based on the synagogue liturgy devised by the Pharisees in the centuries before Jesus. In fact, Matthew's gospel appears to have been deliberately crafted to fit the first century synagogue liturgy. Liturgies serve the purpose of providing a familiar structure for worship services. However, I do believe that worship leaders should reserve a degree of flexibility that would permit changes for special occasions.

I see this just your own humble opinion?

Are you aware that God's Word is throughout the liturgy? You know, the God-breathed scriptures that do not return to Him empty and feed us, growing our faith? I posted scripture in this thread already so you can check back through the pages and find the long list.

 

[JRT]

I see this just your own humble opinion?

Are you aware that God's Word is throughout the liturgy? You know, the God-breathed scriptures that do not return to Him empty and feed us, growing our faith? I posted scripture in this thread already so you can check back through the pages and find the long list.

There is strong evidence that the synoptic gospels were deliberately written so as to conform to the first century synagogue liturgy and lectionary.