Does prayer change things or does it only change us?

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Some people say that praying to God might not change situations, but might change our attitude towards those situations. For example, if we are sick and pray for healing, God might not heal us, but He might use the time we spend in prayer to change our mentality from "I am so miserable because I am in pain and my life is not as good as other people's" to "I am happy to suffer if this is God's Will and if it means that He can be glorified through my suffering in ways that I do not understand".

Do you think that we should mostly expect prayer to have the outcome that we pray for, or should we expect it to not necessarily remove our problem, but rather change the way we view the problem?

 

[Lamb]

I was taught that we pray in hopes that our prayers are in line with God's will. I haven't been taught that God gives us everything we pray for because if you have 2 people asking for totally opposite things, how does that work out? I also wasn't taught that God changes us through prayer. I was taught that it's His word that changes us.

 

[NewCreation435]

We should simply pray that God's will is done and trust that He knows what that is and we don't always. Sometimes he will change the situation and then sometimes he uses the situation to change us. As a whole, pray is not about what you can get, but about trusting in Him

 

[tango]

Does it have to be one or the other?

Sometimes we pray and things change. Sometimes we pray and we change.

 

[JPPT1974]

When we do things and hoping for a change in our own way. It can come out disasterous. But that the Lord when we confirm and conform in His image, will and way. Then all things are better because of Him. May not happen overnight you know.

 

[Arsenios]

Sometimes we pray and things change.

Sometimes we pray and we change.

Sometimes I pray and nothing changes...

Praying for God's Mercy is a good thing -

For self and for others...

Especially for others...

I pray for others and my prayers are granted...

For myself, then not so much...

Pestering God with too much prayer is a good thing...


Arsenios

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Does it have to be one or the other?

Sometimes we pray and things change. Sometimes we pray and we change.

Sometimes I pray and nothing changes...

So, it's all arbitrary then...
Is there even a way to know if God listens to our prayers if He doesn't communicate and there doesn't seem to be an apparent answer?

 

[Lamb]

So, it's all arbitrary then...
Is there even a way to know if God listens to our prayers if He doesn't communicate and there doesn't seem to be an apparent answer?

You're a child of God so He is listening to you. He's not always as quick to answer as we like and sometimes He says No...which we don't like. But we don't know His will or His plans for us.

 

[psalms 91]

You're a child of God so He is listening to you. He's not always as quick to answer as we like and sometimes He says No...which we don't like. But we don't know His will or His plans for us.

True Lamm, I know I dont always know His plans but I do believe that God wants us to.

 

[Arsenios]

So, it's all arbitrary then...

<<<The following is for those with a sense of humor>>>

So why even bother to pray then, right?

Might as well head over to the drugs and alcohol counter and stock up, yes?

And for sure, forget prayer and God...

In fact, we should start a church teaching that God is totally arbitrary...

Communion will be whiskey mixed with self-pity...

Generous and ongoing portions of each...

<<<OR>>>

Maybe just maybe we might man up...

Maybe nothing happening IS God's answer...

And get over it...

Ain't it grand to have a soft and sympathetic shoulder to cry on?

"There, There, my little BooBoo..."

"Now man up and quit y'er snivelin'...!"

Ah the joy of doing emotional support for self-pity!

Is there even a way to know if God listens to our prayers if He doesn't communicate
and there doesn't seem to be an apparent answer?

Any simpering sissie can flow forth in the saturation of the Grace of God...
That is why the Church does not pass out God's Grace from a candy jar...
That is why Christ said to the Apostles: "DISCIPLE all the Nations..."
That means the discipline of obedience sought and self-imposed...

Discipleship without the discipline of obedience is an oxymoron...

Look - I was an atheist who encountered God and knew for a fact He was not the Christian God, OK?
14 years later He told me I am a Christian - To my outrage dare I say?
Then I discovered prayer - I had not prayed in forever - and my oh my...

I started out cynically - I prayed for some (at work) and not for others...
And prayed for them daily - "Lord have Mercy on ____."
And I simply payed attention to all those with whom I worked...
After awhile, a month or three, I don't keep track of time...

The difference in the lives was stunning...
And I prayed for NOTHING in particular...
I prayed ONLY for God's Mercy on them...
So I shifted to prayer, OK...
I shifted to the discipline of prayer...
Regardless of how I happen to feel...
Regardless of what happens or does not happen...

God listens to the sound of one or your hairs rubbing against its neighbor...

The VERY MOST wonderful Gift of God to man is prayer...
It is ours to do or not to do...
It is without cost...
It is without limits...
Because God is without limit...

So PRAY for me, you Dog!!!



Gotta love these conversations!


Arsenios

 

[tango]

So, it's all arbitrary then...
Is there even a way to know if God listens to our prayers if He doesn't communicate and there doesn't seem to be an apparent answer?

When you were a child and asked for a chocolate biscuit and got told "no", you got an answer. If you asked another 483 times in the next couple of hours, did you assume nobody was listening to you because you didn't explicitly get told "no" each and every time?

Sometimes God's answer is in the form of something just not working out. We don't necessarily get angels dancing in the sky with a big sign that says "no" that nobody else can see. But if I'm praying for a nice new Lamborghini Aventador to show up in my driveway then the fact it didn't yet show up means God said no.

An atheist might regard it as evidence that God does not exist at all but that same atheist might struggle to explain what's going on when prayers are answered, unless they want to fall back on the old favorite of claiming it was a coincidence.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

When you were a child and asked for a chocolate biscuit and got told "no", you got an answer. If you asked another 483 times in the next couple of hours, did you assume nobody was listening to you because you didn't explicitly get told "no" each and every time?

Considering Luke 18:1-8, yes.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I was taught that we pray in hopes that our prayers are in line with God's will. I haven't been taught that God gives us everything we pray for because if you have 2 people asking for totally opposite things, how does that work out? I also wasn't taught that God changes us through prayer. I was taught that it's His word that changes us.

We pray in faith hoping for good to come and we receive all the goodness of God and his graces according to his purposes and infinite mercy.

 

[psalms 91]

We pray in faith hoping for good to come and we receive all the goodness of God and his graces according to his purposes and infinite mercy.

God always answers prayer, we just dont always like the answer. By faith we accept what we go through and trust God to use it for good so in that sense we choose whether to pass through lifes storms or be overtaken by them

 

[tango]

Considering Luke 18:1-8, yes.

Do you take that verse as meaning God will give us anything we want, if we just keep asking often enough?

If God's answer is no, how would you expect to get that answer?

 

[JRT]

During the late 1940's and well into the 1950's Charles Templeton was one of the leading evangelists in North America. He was a contemporary and close friend of Billy Graham and even travelled and roomed with him on joint crusades. Some, at the time, regarded him as a greater evangelist than Graham himself. In 1957, just following his greatest crusade ever, and after a long period of soul searching, he turned his back on his ministry and walked away from it. He said to himself, in effect, “how can I stand here and preach passionately to these people when I know that I am not preaching the truth.”

Charles Templeton wrote in “Farewell to God” --- “According to Christian theology, God is omniscient and exists apart from time. Being omniscient he knows the end from the beginning. But if true, would this not mean that all temporal life is predetermined? If God knows the end from the beginning then nothing is subject to change --- otherwise it would not have been known from the beginning. This being so, prayer cannot possibly change anything and there is no point to it. Apart from its function as worship, prayer is based on the premise that God can be talked into running the universe according to the wishes of a devout person on his knees. But, again, try to imagine the chaos if every devout person's prayers were answered! Belief in the efficacy of prayer is a form of self-delusion. Our real prayers are not what we say while on our knees --- the facile words whispered during a prayer. They are the aspirations, attitudes, and desires that motivate our daily lives. It is easy to prime the pump and have the words gush forth in a torrent of pious phrases but the proof of what we really want, regardless of what we say we want, is evident in the way we live. “

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Do you take that verse as meaning God will give us anything we want, if we just keep asking often enough?

If God's answer is no, how would you expect to get that answer?

Because Jesus' parables and teachings did not generally contain the caveat "unless God doesn't want to". The only caveats are to obey His commandments and not ask for sinful things.

 

[Arsenios]

Considering Luke 18:1-8, yes.

:mug:

Each and every tearful time!!!

Great reply...

For more generous responses to prayer, pray for others...

And yes, pester God constantly for yourself...

That is the discipline of prayer...

A VERY funny answer!


Arsenios

 

[Andrew]

God knows what you are going to pray for even before you start to pray.
We can't look at God as a genie who grants wishes, Jesus teaches us that we should pray that God forgives us our trespasses as we forgive others, that we should pray against temptations, that we should pray for strength and deliverance.

 

[Arsenios]

We pray in faith hoping for good to come and we receive all the goodness of God and his graces according to his purposes and infinite mercy.

AND, I might be so bold as to add...
According to the condition of our souls...

I mean, my goodness...
IF we received ALL the goodness of God and his graces
according ONLY to his purposes and infinite mercy
We would be fried to a crisp!!

OK - Overstatement, granted...

But God DOES carefully tailor His Grace to our individual condition of soul...

One Elder (Ephrem) told of a young monk who pestered God for years to God's Gifts...

He wanted to cure sickness and heal men's souls...

So God finally relented and gave him a taste of that Power...

And his first panicked outcry was:

"WAIT a minute! I'M NOT READY..."

And he did not ask after that...


Arsenios