Do I need the Gospel after becoming a Christian?

Lamb

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then you were taught incorrectly .. as it says he calls them 'workers of iniquity ' not workers of self righteousness as you suggest . -iniquity is sin.. ... they keep sinning and do everything else to make up for their sin .. but it is better to obey than to sacrifice .

I believe you are misreading what I have stated as far as what I was taught and what your explanation was.
 

TurtleHare

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Mainstream Christianity teaches basically that man cannot ever stop sinning and therefore the "God-Man" Yeshua is the only one who was ever able to do it. While it is true that all have sinned that fact does not negate our responsibility to stop sinning and cut off sin from our own "temples" as even Yeshua himself commanded on more than one occasion:

John 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

This man was made whole without the shedding of any blood and told to sin no more.

John 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11. She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

This woman was forgiven, not condemned, and again, without the shedding of any blood, and again, told to go and sin no more.

Did Yeshua go around telling people to do something they could not possibly do? If what Yeshua commanded these people to do was realistic then why does mainstream Christianity teach doctrines that nullify his commandments, one of which was "go and sin no more"? Therefore, if one continues sinning then he or she tramples the blood of Messiah who gave his own blood to confirm the covenants and to confirm his Testimony. It is the Testimony of Yeshua, which washes us; but only if we understand, trust in, keep, guard, and do all those things.

Did Yeshua tell the woman to stop sinning completely or to stop that sin she was accused of?
 

visionary

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Did Yeshua tell the woman to stop sinning completely or to stop that sin she was accused of?

Really!!!! why would Yeshua stop at one sin... in saying "stop sinning"?
 

Josiah

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Really!!!! why would Yeshua stop at one sin... in saying "stop sinning"?


If all there was was the Law - then yup, all we'd have is stop sinning, stop being imperfect, stop falling short of the character of God. And yes, all we'd have is hell. The Hindus are WRONG - all the extra TIME and HELP in the universe would not be sufficient for us to attain the Law.

But thanks be to God, there is Christianity! There is Christ! There is unconditional love, mercy, forgiveness! There is salvation/justification! There is the GOSPEL! So that when we fall short (and we ALWAYS do), there is another principle at work. Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide! Soli DEO Gloria!


Pax Soli Christi


- Josiah (who, with Saint Paul, is CHIEF of sinners - forgiven through the Blood of The Savior)





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visionary

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If all there was was the Law - then yup, all we'd have is stop sinning, stop being imperfect, stop falling short of the character of God. And yes, all we'd have is hell. The Hindus are WRONG - all the extra TIME and HELP in the universe would not be sufficient for us to attain the Law.

But thanks be to God, there is Christianity! There is Christ! There is unconditional love, mercy, forgiveness! There is salvation/justification! There is the GOSPEL! So that when we fall short (and we ALWAYS do), there is another principle at work. Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide! Soli DEO Gloria!


Pax Soli Christi


- Josiah (who, with Saint Paul, is CHIEF of sinners - forgiven through the Blood of The Savior)
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Transformation is possible. Yeshua has provided the way, the truth, and the life. We are to live it for all eternity in Him. That is why He provided the Holy Spirit because it can be done. That maybe a big step in faith, but it is possible, because all things are possible with God who strengthens you. Most people throw out "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" which is true... But it can also be past tense in the life of a believer who is willing to walk the narrow path with Him.
 

Josiah

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Transformation is possible. Yeshua has provided the way, the truth, and the life. We are to live it for all eternity in Him. That is why He provided the Holy Spirit because it can be done. That maybe a big step in faith, but it is possible, because all things are possible with God who strengthens you. Most people throw out "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" which is true... But it can also be past tense in the life of a believer who is willing to walk the narrow path with Him.

I see. Could you please post the full names of at least 10 living Christians (out of the 2.2 BILLION which state they are Christians) who have attained this? Who, exactly, are those who don't need no God, no Christ, no Cross, no Savior, no mercy, no Gospel?

If it's true, as you claim, that NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one...... if it is true, as you claim, that NO ONE is good....... if it is true, as you claim, that ALL fall short and miss the mark...... if it is true, as you claim, that if anyone says he has no sin he is a liar and deceives only himself.... than how is it true that some, by their moral evolution, have become good, perfect, always hitting the mark, never falling short, sinless?


Pax Soli Christi



- Josiah
 

visionary

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I see. Could you please post the full names of at least 10 living Christians (out of the 2.2 BILLION which state they are Christians) who have attained this? Who, exactly, are those who don't need no God, no Christ, no Cross, no Savior, no mercy, no Gospel?

If it's true, as you claim, that NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one...... if it is true, as you claim, that NO ONE is good....... if it is true, as you claim, that ALL fall short and miss the mark...... if it is true, as you claim, that if anyone says he has no sin he is a liar and deceives only himself.... than how is it true that some, by their moral evolution, have become good, perfect, always hitting the mark, never falling short, sinless?


Pax Soli Christi



- Josiah
It is not my job to identify the believers who have attained what God would classify as saints. I am just believing it is possible.
 

psalms 91

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It is not my job to identify the believers who have attained what God would classify as saints. I am just believing it is possible.
Yes it is possible
 

Josiah

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I am just believing it is possible.

Is is possible but never actually happens? If it happens, shouldn't there be at least 10 clear examples of it among the 7.3 BILLION people on the planet, the 2.2 BILLION who state they are Christians? And if one was PERFECT LIKE GOD, as loving as God, as holy as God, who had the same attitude and life as Christ, don't you think that probably would be noticable? At least a tiny, tiny faction of the time (I only asked for TEN living examples - a tiny percentage of 7.3 billion)?

How about you? Are you sinless, always "hitting the mark" 24/7? Always perfect, holy, loving.... never needing mercy, forgiveness, salvation, Christ? How about just you?


???


- Josiah
 

psalms 91

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not me I need all the mercy and grace I can get
 

visionary

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Is is possible but never actually happens? If it happens, shouldn't there be at least 10 clear examples of it among the 7.3 BILLION people on the planet, the 2.2 BILLION who state they are Christians? And if one was PERFECT LIKE GOD, as loving as God, as holy as God, who had the same attitude and life as Christ, don't you think that probably would be noticable? At least a tiny, tiny faction of the time (I only asked for TEN living examples - a tiny percentage of 7.3 billion)?

How about you? Are you sinless, always "hitting the mark" 24/7? Always perfect, holy, loving.... never needing mercy, forgiveness, salvation, Christ? How about just you?


???


- Josiah
144,000 "without guile" says it will happen.
 

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The Lord Jesus came to make it happen.
According to his word..,it is so.
 

Josiah

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The Lord Jesus came to make it happen.
According to his word..,it is so.


I see. Then it is easy for you to list the full names of at least ten living persons (out of 7.3 BILLION) who have ceased to sin, who have no need for forgiveness, mercy, salvation, Christ, the Cross, the Savior..... who make Scripture wrong when it says "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one".... who are perfect just as and as much as God is perfect..... who are holy just as and as much as God is holy. Why won't you give us just a tiny, short list of these folks who have ceased to sin, who never miss the mark, who are all God commands 24/7 (and thus make Jesus a worthless, unnecessary, irrelevant joke)? Why won't you give us some names so we can see what these folks look like? Is it because you can't come up with even one - not even one (just as Scripture says)? Because your theology means no one is saved, no one is heaven-bound, Frist John lies when it says "if anyone claims to be without sin he is a lair and deceives only himself?" Could it be because you are wrong? Well.... if you are right, there MUST be a lot ... a LOT..... a WHOLE lot more than just 10 Christians, 10 who have ceased to sin. Give us the full names of just 10 of them who always hit the mark, never miss, never need forgiveness or mercy or Christ or the Savior because they have no sin to forgiven, nothing to be saved from. Where are these people?
 

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I see. Then it is easy for you to list the full names of at least ten living persons (out of 7.3 BILLION) who have ceased to sin, who have no need for forgiveness, mercy, salvation, Christ, the Cross, the Savior..... who make Scripture wrong when it says "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one".... who are perfect just as and as much as God is perfect..... who are holy just as and as much as God is holy. Why won't you give us just a tiny, short list of these folks who have ceased to sin, who never miss the mark, who are all God commands 24/7 (and thus make Jesus a worthless, unnecessary, irrelevant joke)? Why won't you give us some names so we can see what these folks look like? Is it because you can't come up with even one - not even one (just as Scripture says)? Because your theology means no one is saved, no one is heaven-bound, Frist John lies when it says "if anyone claims to be without sin he is a lair and deceives only himself?" Could it be because you are wrong? Well.... if you are right, there MUST be a lot ... a LOT..... a WHOLE lot more than just 10 Christians, 10 who have ceased to sin. Give us the full names of just 10 of them who always hit the mark, never miss, never need forgiveness or mercy or Christ or the Savior because they have no sin to forgiven, nothing to be saved from. Where are these people?
We can be upright, perfect, just, holy, blameless and RIGHTEOUS in this present world. The above terms do not necessarily equal ”to never have been guilty of any sins”.

All sinners have been given the opportunity of repenting of their sins and become holy, righteous and blameless and when Yeshua cleanse us from our sins we are completely clean because our old sins are removed. We don’t have to wait until we die before we can honor God by living holy and righteous lives and be faithful to him (Titus 2:11-12). When God rests His mantle of righteousness upon our shoulders, who are we to say that He can not declare us righteous?

Eccl.7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

The below terms can be translated just, perfect, upright, unblameable, etc

The Hebrew word tsaddiq (Strong’s 6662)
The Greek word dikaios (Strong’s 1342)
The Greek word teleios (Strong’s 5046)
 

visionary

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Here are your Examples of Biblical individuals who were righteous as declared by Holy Scripture due to living righteous lives

1.) Noah

Gen. 6:9 .... Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Gen. 7:1 And the Lord said unto Noah,..... for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

2.) Abraham

James. 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?......23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

3.) Lot

2 Pet 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)

4.) Job

Job 1:8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect (Strong’s 8535) and an upright (Strong’s 3477) man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?


5.) King David

Ps. 7:10 My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.12 If he turn not, he will whet his sword; he hath bent his bow, and made it ready.

Ps. 18:23 I was also upright before him, and I kept myself from mine iniquity.24 Therefore hath the Lord recompensed me according to MY righteousness, according to the cleanness of my hands in his eyesight.

2 Samuel 22:21 The Lord rewarded me according to my righteousness: according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me.22 For I have kept the ways of the Lord, and have not wickedly departed from my God.23 For all his judgments were before me: and as for his statutes, I did not depart from them. 24 I was also upright (Strong’s 8549) before him, and have kept myself from mine iniquity.25 Therefore the Lord hath recompensed me according to my righteousness; according to my cleanness in his eye sight.26 With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful, and with the upright (Strong’s 8549) man thou wilt shew thyself upright.27 With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself unsavoury.

1 King. 14:8 ..... my servant David, who kept my commandments, and who followed me with all his heart, to do that only which was right in mine eyes;

1 King. 15:5 Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the Lord, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

2 King. 14:3 And he did that which was right in the sight of the Lord, yet not like David his father: he did according to all things as Joash his father did.

Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave their testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

6.) King Asa

1 King. 15:11 And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the Lord, as did David his father.—14 But the high places were not removed: nevertheless Asa’s heart was perfect (Strong’s 8003) with the Lord all his days.

2 Chron. 14:2 And Asa did that which was good and right in the eyes of the Lord his God:3 For he took away the altars of the strange gods, and the high places, and brake down the images, and cut down the groves:4 And commanded Judah to seek the Lord God of their fathers, and to do the law and the commandment.

7.) King Hezekiah

2 King. 18:1 Now it came to pass in the third year of Hoshea son of Elah king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah began to reign.—3 And he did that which was right in the sight of the Lord, according to all that David his father did.4 He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.5 He trusted in the Lord God of Israel; so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor any that were before him.6 For he clave to the Lord, and departed not from following him, but KEPT HIS COMMANDMENTS, WHICH THE LORD COMMANDED MOSES.

8.) King Josiah

2 King. 22:1 Josiah was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned thirty and one years in Jerusalem. And his mother’s name was Jedidah, the daughter of Adaiah of Boscath.2 And he did that which was right in the sight of the Lord, and walked in all the way of David his father, and turned not aside to the right hand or to the left.

2 King. 23:25 And like unto him was there no king before him, that turned to the Lord with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his might, according to all the law of Moses; neither after him arose there any like him.

2 Chron. 34:1 Josiah was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem one and thirty years.2 And he did that which was right in the sight of the Lord, and walked in the ways of David his father, and declined neither to the right hand, nor to the left.

9.) Enoch

Hebr. 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Moses and all of Israel were told to be perfect (which means they could)

Deut.18:13 Thou shalt be perfect (Strong’s 8549) with the Lord thy God.


10.) Abel and Zacharias

Matt. 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Hebr. 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.

11.) Joseph, Mary’s husband

Matt. 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.

12.) Joseph, the counsellor

Luk. 23:50 And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counsellor; and he was a good man, and a just:

13.) Cornelius

Acts 10:1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. —22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

14.) John the Baptist

Mark. 6:20 For Herod feared John, knowing that he was a just man and an holy, and observed him; and when he heard him, he did many things, and heard him gladly.

Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

15.) Simeon

Luke 2:25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

16.) The Apostle Paul (after his conversion)

1 Thess. 2:10 Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe:

Acts 23:1 And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.

17.) The priest Zacharias and his wife Elisabeth

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
 

visionary

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Matt. 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. —37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?—40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:.—45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
 

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1 Peter. 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
 

visionary

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1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
 

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1 Peter 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
 

Lamb

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It is not my job to identify the believers who have attained what God would classify as saints. I am just believing it is possible.

Those who have faith are saints. It's just that we're also in these bodies that cannot be sinless yet since we're the clay still being worked on by God.
 
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