Denominationalism VS nondenominational Churches.

[1689Dave]

Then you don't know the Lutheran beliefs concerning the Sacraments.

I do. Why do you assume I'm speaking about one of the Lutheran denominations? I don't think you are classified as "Sacratotal". But still, fall under the Evangelical heading.

 

[Albion]

I largely agree.

But in MY experience, non-denoms DO have a set of beliefs (just as denominational ones do) they just like to hide them.

Well, I've said before that non-denominational congregations do have their own sets of beliefs, but the idea that they hide some of them deserves consideration.

And I've said before that these pastors impose their own personal beliefs on their congregants in addition to any creeds, but we also recognize that the published statement of beliefs is usually so basic and predictable ('We Believe in Jesus as Savior, We Believe in the Bible, We Believe in the Second Coming,' and little else) that a case can be made that these churches do take care not to advertise anything else lest doing that cause an inquirer to conclude that the non-denom is not very different from the usual denominations after all.

 

[1689Dave]

Well, I've said before that non-denominational congregations do have their own sets of beliefs, but the idea that they hide some of them deserves consideration.

And I've said before that these pastors impose their own personal beliefs on their congregants in addition to any creeds, but we also recognize that the published statement of beliefs is usually so basic and predictable ('We Believe in Jesus as Savior, We Believe in the Bible, We Believe in the Second Coming,' and little else) that a case can be made that these churches do take care not to advertise anything else lest doing that cause an inquirer to conclude that the non-denom is not very different from the usual denominations after all.

How do you hide anything in print for all to see?

 

[1689Dave]

Then you don't know the Lutheran beliefs concerning the Sacraments.

QUESTION: Can you please clarify the Lutheran view of Baptism and its purpose? Does the child become a Christian when baptized?

ANSWER: Lutherans believe that the Bible teaches that a person is saved by God’s grace alone through faith in Jesus Christ alone.

The Bible tells us that such “faith comes by hearing” (Rom. 10:17). Jesus Himself commands Baptism and tells us that Baptism is water used together with the Word of God (Matt. 28:19-20). Doctrine - Frequently Asked Questions - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod

 

[Albion]

How do you hide anything in print for all to see?

You've misread that post. Josiah and I were referring to a church which would keep some of what it believes and teaches off from its websites, presenting only a very basic Statement of Belief to anybody who might be looking for a new church.

 

[1689Dave]

You've misread that post. Josiah and I were referring to a church which would keep some of what it believes and teaches off from its websites, presenting only a very basic Statement of Belief to anybody who might be looking for a new church.

I don't know of any. The churches I agree with for the most part have printed material that would empty most churches today.

 

[Albion]

QUESTION: Can you please clarify the Lutheran view of Baptism and its purpose? Does the child become a Christian when baptized?

ANSWER: Lutherans believe that the Bible teaches that a person is saved by God’s grace alone through faith in Jesus Christ alone.

The Bible tells us that such “faith comes by hearing” (Rom. 10:17). Jesus Himself commands Baptism and tells us that Baptism is water used together with the Word of God (Matt. 28:19-20). Doctrine - Frequently Asked Questions - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod

Then Lamb was correct when saying that you were mistaken when you wrote this: "Some of the Sacramental Churches proclaim themselves to be the savior through the use of sacraments."

Those churches, including the Lutheran ones, do NOT proclaim themselves to "be the savior" and certainly not "through the use of sacraments." Nothing in the material you've presented here from The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod even hints at what you wrote.

 

[Josiah]

QUESTION: Can you please clarify the Lutheran view of Baptism and its purpose? Does the child become a Christian when baptized?

ANSWER: Lutherans believe that the Bible teaches that a person is saved by God’s grace alone through faith in Jesus Christ alone.

It does not say, "Lutherans believe that our various 300+ denominations save a person," A church doesn't save, God does. He may do so via means but using means doesn't negate that it's God doing it. But clearly, Lutherans do not teach that a church (any church) saves.

How do you hide anything in print for all to see?

I've never known a non-denom parish that clearly printed exactly what that church teaches. They seem to go to great lengths to leave that very unclear. Or we get entirely meaningless things like "We teach what the Bible does" or "We teach what is true."

If you ask, Lutherans have it printed out. It's the Book of Concord. I have one. It's 648 pages long, but it references much more than that in previous statements.




.

 

[Josiah]

Then Lamb was correct when saying that you were mistaken when you wrote this: "Some of the Sacramental Churches proclaim themselves to be the savior through the use of sacraments."

Those churches, including the Lutheran ones, do NOT proclaim themselves to "be the savior" and certainly not "through the use of sacraments." Nothing in the material you've presented here from The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod even hints at what you wrote.

Exactly.



.

 

[Albion]

I don't know of any.

I'm surprised to have you say that. I know of many, and I would suippose that Josiah does also.

 

[1689Dave]

Then Lamb was correct when saying that you were mistaken when you wrote this: "Some of the Sacramental Churches proclaim themselves to be the savior through the use of sacraments."

Those churches, including the Lutheran ones, do NOT proclaim themselves to "be the savior" and certainly not "through the use of sacraments." Nothing in the material you've presented here from The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod even hints at what you wrote.

The Lutherans excluded, the Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican churches come up as Sacradotalists.

Definition of sacerdotalism

: religious belief emphasizing the powers of priests as essential mediators between God and humankind.
sacraments.

 

[1689Dave]

I'm surprised to have you say that. I know of many, and I would suippose that Josiah does also.

Pentecostals? Cults? Name a few.

 

[Albion]

The Lutherans excluded, the Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican churches come up as Sacradotalists.

You want to exclude Lutherans here, but you referred to Lutheranism when you made that observation in the first place. And Lamb was therefore right to correct you.

Definition of sacerdotalism

: religious belief emphasizing the powers of priests as essential mediators between God and humankind.
sacraments.

Sacerdotalism refers to churches which have priests, not to the beliefs you wrongly attributed to Lutheran, Catholic, and Anglican churches.

 

[1689Dave]

You want to exclude Lutherans here, but you referred to Lutheranism when you made that observation in the first place. And Lamb was therefore right to correct you.

Sacerdotalism refers to churches which have priests, not to the beliefs you wrongly attributed to Lutheran, Catholic, and Anglican churches.

The Lutherans are Evangelicals. But sacerdotal churches replace Jesus as savior.

 

[Albion]

Pentecostals? Cults? Name a few.

We are talking about non-denominational churches, and they are characteristically local, not known across the country by some common denominational name.

Yes, some of them may be cults, and some of them may be Pentecostal in doctrine and practice, and some others are both Pentecostal and cultic. Most, however, are better described as Baptist churches unaffiliated with any Baptist convention.

 

[Albion]

The Lutherans are Evangelicals. But sacerdotal churches replace Jesus as savior.

You'd do well to stop now before you post even more ridiculous disinformation about and attacks against the churches that other members here belong to. You don't know what they are like, do, or believe.

 

[1689Dave]

We are talking about non-denominational churches, and they are characteristically local, not known across the country by some common denominational name.

Yes, some of them may be cults, and some of them may be Pentecostal in doctrine and practice, and some others are both Pentecostal and cultic. Most, however, are better described as Baptist churches unaffiliated with any Baptist convention.

Most Baptist churches are cult-like if not cults. This is because of their Dispensationalism. But these are not historically tied to the Baptist churches of the 1600s based on the Westminster Confession.

 

[1689Dave]

You'd do well to stop now before you post even more ridiculous disinformation about and attacks against the churches that other members here belong to. You don't know what they are like, do, or believe.

You are free to offer a rebuttal to anything I say.

 

[Albion]

Most Baptist churches are cult-like if not cults. This is because of their Dispensationalism.

Dispensationalism is not an accepted mark of a religious cult.

 

[Albion]

You are free to offer a rebuttal to anything I say.

I'm getting fatigued from typing because of the ones I've offered already! Why don't you consider offering even a single piece of evidence in support of the several false claims you have levelled at various Christian churches in the past few minutes?