Denominationalism VS nondenominational Churches.

Josiah

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Dave's isolation of himself from other Christians, his repudiation of the church and the call to gathering and assembly, his choice to be himself in automony with none holding him accountable with none to be able to correct him if he's errant, to council or guide.... well... it explains a LOT. Including why he's opposed to denominations.



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1689Dave

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Dave's isolation of himself from other Christians, his repudiation of the church and the call to gathering and assembly, his choice to be himself in automony with none holding him accountable with none to correct, explains a LOT. Including why he's opposed to denominations.



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Two in Christ's name = a church. We have more true worship than you can shake a stick at.
 

Faith

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How can a denomination with a bloody past have reflected what Christ teaches? How about military service? That involves lots of innocent blood.
So you just know better than anyone else, is what you’re trying to say.
 

1689Dave

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So you just know better than anyone else, is what you’re trying to say.
Churches have overhead and run on a retail business model. Truth empties churches. It doesn't sell, to put it bluntly.
 

Faith

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Churches have overhead and run on a retail business model. Truth empties churches. It doesn't sell, to put it bluntly.
Are you this suspicious of everyone and everything?
 

1689Dave

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Are you this suspicious of everyone and everything? Maybe you should seek some professional help. And I don’t mean this in a snarky way but really, come on now.
I honestly cannot think of one church in my area I would tithe to with a clear conscience.
 

Faith

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I honestly cannot think of one church in my area I would tithe to with a clear conscience.
Then the problem might not be the churches…….
 

1689Dave

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Then the problem might not be the churches…….
It's the unscriptural religious franchises mistakenly called churches. People are the church. I give to the Salvation Army and Goodwill to help people get on their feet. But the wealth in the religious franchises seems appalling in most cases.
 

Albion

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I honestly cannot think of one church in my area I would tithe to with a clear conscience.
Great. Most churches do not require a tithe.

What's the next excuse?
 
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Albion

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It's the unscriptural religious franchises mistakenly called churches. People are the church. I give to the Salvation Army and Goodwill to help people get on their feet. But the wealth in the religious franchises seems appalling in most cases.
Once again, you are making an unfair generalization about denominations AND even independent congregations.

There are plenty of small congregations that are anything but wealthy. You certainly do not have to meet at McDonald's for prayer and hotcakes with no more than two other people at your table in order to avoid this particular "problem."

It's the unscriptural religious franchises mistakenly called churches. People are the church. I give to the Salvation Army....

The Salvation Army is a Christian denomination, so you are already doing what you say you cannot abide.
 

Josiah

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@Albion
@Faith


God calls us into community, family, the communion of believers. "Do not forsake the gathering together."

There is a grave and constant danger in rejecting that, in this "Just Jesus and Me" mentality, the "I don't need no one cuz I got me" egoism. "I got Jesus and He teaches ME and when He's wrong, I correct Him." Folks like this seem to do that a lot, quote Jesus and then put a lot of "NOT" and "NO" and "CAN'T BE TRUE" inserted into what He says (cuz self is always smarter than Jesus). When you listen to them, it's obvious they are correcting Jesus, He isn't correcting them.

It's a tendency, an attitude found in heretics. Turning their backs on the church, on accountability. And always on Jesus' Word, insisting Jesus MEANT the opposite of what He said. Heretics LIKE to call what they do "interpreting" (in a very new, "creative" way - but smart cuz no one is smarter that self) but actually it's not "interpreting" at all, it's denying, denying what Jesus said. They correcting Him.

Perhaps this is one reason why God calls us together, the gathering, the assembly, the community. For accountability and edification. For keeping us in the one true faith. I recall a study where the pastor shared that Satan seldom attacks the whole flock, he goes after the one who has wandered off my himself - becoming easy prey.

A few days ago, I very sincerely counseled Dave to stop and to talk with his pastor and with some wise people (perhaps the elders) in his church, to let them see what and how he has posted. I honestly felt he really needed that and they could help him. And that's what I wanted, help for our brother. In this thread, we learned why he ignored that counsel. It's sad.


But I don't mean to rebuke our brother.... and I still hope someday he'll stop turning his back on the community. But let this serve to remind us ALL. Satan works HARD.... he works OVERTIME to separate us, to increase our ego, to lead us to individualism and isolation. And the fruits of this are sometimes quite predictable and apparent. In our lives in this fallen, broken world - there are things that can encourage this isolation, this independance and autonomy, this sense of "I don't need nobody cuz I got me." I think the pandemic really helped with this. Sometimes even things like heath or transportation can help with this. But especially in those times, we need to work hard to keep connected to the church, embrace the accountability and edification that fellow believers in the church community provide, the encouragement and support real people give, people who know us and care for us, the community, the church.



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Lamb

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I honestly cannot think of one church in my area I would tithe to with a clear conscience.

And none of us could attend your "church" with a clear conscience either. You google the biblical languages because you don't trust those who have learned Hebrew, Latin and Greek for years.
 

1689Dave

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And none of us could attend your "church" with a clear conscience either. You google the biblical languages because you don't trust those who have learned Hebrew, Latin and Greek for years.
You are right where God wants you. I'm right where He wants me. But it sounds like two different Christianities and Christs the more I think about it.
 

Lamb

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You are right where God wants you. I'm right where He wants me. But it sounds like two different Christianities and Christs the more I think about it.

Well, my triune God saves me 100%. Do you say the same? I confess Jesus Christ who died on the cross for the forgiveness of my sins, who rose from the dead and ascended into heaven. He will come again to judge the living and dead. I'm saved by grace through faith and that faith is a gift from God and grasps onto the Gospel, that good news that I'm forgiven because of Jesus.
 

1689Dave

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Well, my triune God saves me 100%. Do you say the same? I confess Jesus Christ who died on the cross for the forgiveness of my sins, who rose from the dead and ascended into heaven. He will come again to judge the living and dead. I'm saved by grace through faith and that faith is a gift from God and grasps onto the Gospel, that good news that I'm forgiven because of Jesus.
You must save yourself according to universal atonement.
 

Lamb

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You must save yourself according to universal atonement.

No, I've already shown to you that you are incorrect on that matter. In universal atonement, God still saves His children by grace through faith in Jesus who died on the cross for the forgiveness of sins. Man plays no role.
 

1689Dave

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No, I've already shown to you that you are incorrect on that matter. In universal atonement, God still saves His children by grace through faith in Jesus who died on the cross for the forgiveness of sins. Man plays no role.
Why aren't all saved if he paid for their sins? Even the sin of rejecting him?
 

Faith

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Once again, you are making an unfair generalization about denominations AND even independent congregations.

There are plenty of small congregations that are anything but wealthy. You certainly do not have to meet at McDonald's for prayer and hotcakes with no more than two other people at your table in order to avoid this particular "problem."



The Salvation Army is a Christian denomination, so you are already doing what you say you cannot abide.
Good points.
 

Lamb

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Why aren't all saved if he paid for their sins? Even the sin of rejecting him?

Well that doesn't address your accusation that I save myself. Please address what I wrote.
 

1689Dave

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Well that doesn't address your accusation that I save myself. Please address what I wrote.
You dodge the issue of self-salvation. The only possible position available to universal atonement buffs.
 
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