Decision Theology

[Lees]

Let me get this straight...are you saying that God doesn't give you new birth until YOU decide?

You are not born-again until you believe on Jesus Christ. Until you receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour. When you believe, you certainly exercise your decision making process. And you follow Jesus Christ.

You don't believe on Jesus Christ until the Holy Spirit, convicts your spirit, and gives you ears to hear, all of which are done before you believe and are born again.

We who are believers are the elect of God. But though we are elect, doesn't mean we are yet saved. We only become saved, and born again, when we believe on Jesus Christ.

If you and others want to call that a decision, go ahead. But that doesn't equate belief with a work as you suggest. It is simply God working and man responding.

Lees

 

[Lamb]

You are not born-again until you believe on Jesus Christ. Until you receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour. When you believe, you certainly exercise your decision making process. And you follow Jesus Christ.

You don't believe on Jesus Christ until the Holy Spirit, convicts your spirit, and gives you ears to hear, all of which are done before you believe and are born again.

We who are believers are the elect of God. But though we are elect, doesn't mean we are yet saved. We only become saved, and born again, when we believe on Jesus Christ.

If you and others want to call that a decision, go ahead. But that doesn't equate belief with a work as you suggest. It is simply God working and man responding.

Lees

Let me ask you this...

What is it you're telling people to believe?

 

[Albion]

I forgot to address this part...
The Holy Spirit pressing us on our need for a Savior is LAW. The Law accuses us of our sin. The Law shows us that we cannot do what needs to be done to be righteous.

Very true.

That's not being born again. That's not regenerative.

Also true.

What regenerates us is the giving us of the Savior through the Gospel which tells us that Jesus died on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins.

Yes. And undeniably so, if the Bible is to be our guide instead of some personal reasoning that seems appealing.

If there had been--for the sake of the argument--no resurrection of Christ from the grave, the redemption of mortals would still have been accomplished, exactly as you've noted.

The promise of a resurrection of our bodies in glorified form does not change anything about the work of the Cross. While the reality of us having a glorified body in the afterlife is comforting and a part of the divine plan, it would have been possible for God simply to have provided for a life eternal in the spirit world, in spirit form, much like the angels.

His plan, however, was more than that. The point here is that this would be considered salvation even if there were no promise of us also being resurrected in the future, as the Bible indicates, and that salvation is won by Chrit's sacrifice on the Cross.

 

[Lanman87]

I think the reason I started this thread was that the church I attend doesn't give an altar call and sometimes, frankly, I miss it.

I understand the dangers of "false conversion" and manipulation that can go along with the altar call. But in my Baptist tradition that "invitation" as it was called wasn't just about people converting. The invitation wasn't just to come to Christ, it was to respond to the Holy Spirit. Sometimes believers would go down and speak to the pastor about some sin they were dealing with (which often resulted in ongoing counseling), Sometimes entire families would go down and pray for a loved one who was sick or some other need. Often, married couples would go down and kneel and pray together silently.

I remember several times where my heart would be stirred during a service and during the invitation I would go down and pray, often with a pastor or family members or a group. Occasionally there would be a general call to pray for the entire congregation for some specific purpose and during the invitation dozens of people (most of the congregation) would all be on their knees calling out to God. There is just something special about kneeling in prayer in Christian community that can't be replicated at home or in private.

I'm also concerned that we are so worried about being manipulative that we miss opportunities to engage people with the gospel. At the very least, we should tell people if they have questions and want to know more about this Jesus we follow then someone will be available after the service to answer any questions they may have.

 

[Lees]

Let me ask you this...

What is it you're telling people to believe?

And why should I answer you when you ignore all my questions. I will answer, but there is no reason I should. I should do as you do and ignore your question. See my post #(140).

They need to believe that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God and Saviour. And they need to recieve Him as their Lord and Savour. (John 1:11-12) Go to God in prayer, and tell Him you want Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour.

Lees

 

[Lees]

I think the reason I started this thread was that the church I attend doesn't give an altar call and sometimes, frankly, I miss it.

I understand the dangers of "false conversion" and manipulation that can go along with the altar call. But in my Baptist tradition that "invitation" as it was called wasn't just about people converting. The invitation wasn't just to come to Christ, it was to respond to the Holy Spirit. Sometimes believers would go down and speak to the pastor about some sin they were dealing with (which often resulted in ongoing counseling), Sometimes entire families would go down and pray for a loved one who was sick or some other need. Often, married couples would go down and kneel and pray together silently.

I remember several times where my heart would be stirred during a service and during the invitation I would go down and pray, often with a pastor or family members or a group. Occasionally there would be a general call to pray for the entire congregation for some specific purpose and during the invitation dozens of people (most of the congregation) would all be on their knees calling out to God. There is just something special about kneeling in prayer in Christian community that can't be replicated at home or in private.

I'm also concerned that we are so worried about being manipulative that we miss opportunities to engage people with the gospel. At the very least, we should tell people if they have questions and want to know more about this Jesus we follow then someone will be available after the service to answer any questions they may have.

Every church is filled with both the saved and the unsaved. No matter what denomination, no matter what church you go to, there are those there who are only along for the ride.

If Jesus had His Judas, who are we to think we are going to create a church where only the Christians attend.

God has saved and blessed millions through what is being demonized as 'decision theology'. Think of all the great evangelist's in the world. D.L. Moody for one.

A Bible teacher once told our class that when he was a student in a Bible college it was common for the students to sit around and discuss theology, of course. One day he was with some and they were really bashing D.L. Moody's theology, him included. And a professor at the college overheard them.

The professor came over and said to them, 'When you do with your theology, what D.L. Moody did with his, then get back with me'. The same could be said with Billy Graham and others. I doubt any ever got back with him.

But my how some love to bash Christians, even though God is using it, decision theology, to save so many.

Lees

 

[Lamb]

And why should I answer you when you ignore all my questions. I will answer, but there is no reason I should. I should do as you do and ignore your question. See my post #(140).

They need to believe that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God and Saviour. And they need to recieve Him as their Lord and Savour. (John 1:11-12) Go to God in prayer, and tell Him you want Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour.

Lees

That's what you tell them? You don't tell them anything about what He's done?????

 

[Lamb]

Every church is filled with both the saved and the unsaved. No matter what denomination, no matter what church you go to, there are those there who are only along for the ride.

If Jesus had His Judas, who are we to think we are going to create a church where only the Christians attend.

God has saved and blessed millions through what is being demonized as 'decision theology'. Think of all the great evangelist's in the world. D.L. Moody for one.

A Bible teacher once told our class that when he was a student in a Bible college it was common for the students to sit around and discuss theology, of course. One day he was with some and they were really bashing D.L. Moody's theology, him included. And a professor at the college overheard them.

The professor came over and said to them, 'When you do with your theology, what D.L. Moody did with his, then get back with me'. The same could be said with Billy Graham and others. I doubt any ever got back with him.

But my how some love to bash Christians, even though God is using it, decision theology, to save so many.

Lees

No one in this thread is bashing Christians. Correcting poor doctrine is not bashing the person.

 

[Lees]

That's what you tell them? You don't tell them anything about what He's done?????

I don't tell them you are either saved or not because it's God who makes the decision.

I don't tell them you may or may not be elect.

Of course I tell them what He has done. But if one comes up and simply asks me how to become a Christian, how to be saved, I tell them what I said in post #(145).

Every witness is different. To some you have years to talk to. To others only minutes or hours.

Lees

 

[Lamb]

I don't tell them you are either saved or not because it's God who makes the decision.

I don't tell them you may or may not be elect.

Of course I tell them what He has done. But if one comes up and simply asks me how to become a Christian, how to be saved, I tell them what I said in post #(145).

Every witness is different. To some you have years to talk to. To others only minutes or hours.

Lees

Do you tell them about Jesus' death on the cross?

Do you tell them that their sins are forgiven?

 

[Lees]

Do you tell them about Jesus' death on the cross?

Do you tell them that their sins are forgiven?

Oh gee...more questions for me. Yet you don't answer anything.

I didn't tell them their sins are forgiven. I tell them they can be if they receive Jesus Christ. See post # (145), (149). So, is that what you tell them? Surprise me and answer my question.

Now go back to post #(140) and answer my questions. Remember you gave me your word you would if I answered yours.

Thus far.....your word is no good.

Lees

 

[Lamb]

You keep forgetting a lot of parts. I asked you for the verses of your question to me. Do you know them? Or do you just want me to find them for you?

No, the Holy Spirit's conviction upon our spirit is the actual pressure He puts on one to bring him to Christ. The Law is the law.

What's not being born again? What's not regenerative? (1 Peter 1:3) and (John 3:5) is the new birth.

No. What regenerates us is the Holy Spirit, giving new life to our spirit. The new birth. The Cross made that a possibility. But the Cross did not regenerate anyone.

Tangents? OK. We will see if 'limited atonement' is a tangent. You and your video man says the Cross saves and not the Resurrection. Then everyone who ever existed is saved, because Christ died for all. Correct? Or...did He not die for all? Hence...limited atonement.

So, is that what you believe? That everyone, ever born of Adam is saved?

Lees

The verses are in the video you said you watched. Looks like you really didn't.

Objective Justification is the term you're looking for. Get your terms correct.

 

[Lees]

The verses are in the video you said you watched. Looks like you really didn't.

Objective Justification is the term you're looking for. Get your terms correct.

Never mind. You're as good as your word.

I wasn't looking for any terms. Certainly don't need any from you now.

Lees

 

[Lamb]

Never mind. You're as good as your word.

I wasn't looking for any terms. Certainly don't need any from you now.

Lees

Everything you've asked has been answered according to Lutheran beliefs. The video explained things perfectly and addressed even more verses than I have listed. Watch the video again. And again.

 

[Lees]

Everything you've asked has been answered according to Lutheran beliefs. The video explained things perfectly and addressed even more verses than I have listed. Watch the video again. And again.

It's not important.

Lees

 

[brightfame52]

lanman 87

if you have a genuine faith in the true Christ aren't you saved by that faith?

No you were saved by the object of that Faith, Jesus Christ. Faith embraces the reality that Jesus Christ saved you.

 

[Albion]

No you were saved by the object of that Faith, Jesus Christ. Faith embraces the reality that Jesus Christ saved you.

Almost always, when we say that we are or were saved by Faith, we mean Faith in Christ as Lord and Savior. It's not as though believing in something else, some supernatural or spiritual truth other than the Incarnation, Crucifixion, and Resurrection of the Lord himself, has saving powers.

Put another way, when any of us says that a person is saved by Faith, nothing is intended that's other than that what you asserted in your post.

 

[brightfame52]

Almost always, when we say that we are or were saved by Faith, we mean Faith in Christ as Lord and Savior. It's not as though believing in something else, some supernatural or spiritual truth other than the Incarnation, Crucifixion, and Resurrection of the Lord himself, has saving powers.

Put another way, when any of us says that a person is saved by Faith, nothing is intended that's other than that what you asserted in your post.

Maybe you dont understand what I mean, let me be clear, One is saved by Christ before they put faith in Him, they are given faith in Him because He had already saved them, so Faith embraces Him who already saved them.

 

[Albion]

I see.

Well, I recognize that there are different views about that particular aspect of the matter, but it seems to me that Faith functions the same way in either case and it is not the case that God will save someone who doesn't have Faith.

 

[brightfame52]

I see.

Well, I recognize that there are different views about that particular aspect of the matter, but it seems to me that Faith functions the same way in either case and it is not the case that God will save someone who doesn't have Faith.

No man naturally has faith, not Spiritual Faith. When Jesus saves a sinner, He gives them Faith and Repentance.