CoronaVirus

[NewCreation435]

Logically if you're going to do that you should also stop going to the grocery stores because you never know who else has been touching the shopping cart. I think it makes more sense to be concerned about someone coughing or sneezing into their hand and immediately putting their hand back on the handle of the cart, than someone sweating on a bench while lifting weights.

If I am using just one cart then I can easily wipe that down before I use it. With weight machines there are multiple points of contact with the body and much harder to be sure that you got all of the areas that should be wiped down. Plus, some people I saw were not wiping the machines down at all after using. I took care of this problem the other day though and canceled my gym membership. My doctor was actually encouraging me not to go

 

[tango]

If I am using just one cart then I can easily wipe that down before I use it. With weight machines there are multiple points of contact with the body and much harder to be sure that you got all of the areas that should be wiped down. Plus, some people I saw were not wiping the machines down at all after using. I took care of this problem the other day though and canceled my gym membership. My doctor was actually encouraging me not to go

True, except part of the problem is about touching your face and you're less likely to do that with your back if the bench is a bit sweaty. Also if you're worried about touching things that other people have touched the grocery store is still bad even if you wipe the shopping cart - you never know if somebody has picked up the item on the shelf and put it back. You don't know if the person stacking the shelves was infected, you can't control how clean the conveyer at the checkout is or what else has been on it, and so on.

 

[NewCreation435]

True, except part of the problem is about touching your face and you're less likely to do that with your back if the bench is a bit sweaty. Also if you're worried about touching things that other people have touched the grocery store is still bad even if you wipe the shopping cart - you never know if somebody has picked up the item on the shelf and put it back. You don't know if the person stacking the shelves was infected, you can't control how clean the conveyer at the checkout is or what else has been on it, and so on.

Yes, that's true also. My wife and I discussed it and she is going to the store now instead of me, so basically I am not going anywhere until this virus is under control. As someone with an autoimmune disease this virus could kill me if I get it. So I have to be extremely careful

 

[tango]

Yes, that's true also. My wife and I discussed it and she is going to the store now instead of me, so basically I am not going anywhere until this virus is under control. As someone with an autoimmune disease this virus could kill me if I get it. So I have to be extremely careful

If that's the case don't you also need to maintain safe distances between you and your wife? If she goes to the store and contracts the virus aren't you in just as much danger as if you went to the store yourself?

 

[NewCreation435]

If that's the case don't you also need to maintain safe distances between you and your wife? If she goes to the store and contracts the virus aren't you in just as much danger as if you went to the store yourself?

What would you suggest that I do? I have to eat. Quite frankly this reply sounds patronizing.

 

[tango]

What would you suggest that I do? I have to eat. Quite frankly this reply sounds patronizing.

It's not meant to be patronising, merely acknowledging that sending her into a crowded space to save you going into a crowded space may not actually achieve anything, unless you can keep a safe distance from her. If your immune system is compromised isn't it just as dangerous if she comes home having picked up the virus?

I don't know your precise details so it's hard to offer a specific suggestion but if the virus is likely to kill you then, given someone has to go and get supplies, is maintaining a safe distance from your wife such an inappropriate suggestion? Not much fun admittedly, but perhaps it beats the alternatives.

 

[NewCreation435]

It's not meant to be patronising, merely acknowledging that sending her into a crowded space to save you going into a crowded space may not actually achieve anything, unless you can keep a safe distance from her. If your immune system is compromised isn't it just as dangerous if she comes home having picked up the virus?

I don't know your precise details so it's hard to offer a specific suggestion but if the virus is likely to kill you then, given someone has to go and get supplies, is maintaining a safe distance from your wife such an inappropriate suggestion? Not much fun admittedly, but perhaps it beats the alternatives.

It would be impossible to completely sanitize the environment. Not going to some places where there is enclosed spaces or large groups of people is the main focus right now. Of course, most of us didn't forsee this happening even a few weeks ago, so we will see how things go in the coming weeks. Trump is now saying this could last for months.

 

[tango]

It would be impossible to completely sanitize the environment. Not going to some places where there is enclosed spaces or large groups of people is the main focus right now. Of course, most of us didn't forsee this happening even a few weeks ago, so we will see how things go in the coming weeks. Trump is now saying this could last for months.

Minimizing risks is where it's at, it's just that so much stuff that's notionally done to reduce risks does anything but.

At my local grocery store they have sanitising wipes so you can wipe the shopping cart before you use it. It's just that the carts are outside and the wipes are inside, so unless you think to get the wipe first you might as well not bother. And even if you wipe the cart handle you don't know if someone has picked up a product, decided they don't want it and put it back on the shelf.

Ironically when announcements are made to close things down the inevitable result is that people rush to stock up while they can, resulting in more people squashed into the same small space.

 

[NewCreation435]

Minimizing risks is where it's at, it's just that so much stuff that's notionally done to reduce risks does anything but.

At my local grocery store they have sanitising wipes so you can wipe the shopping cart before you use it. It's just that the carts are outside and the wipes are inside, so unless you think to get the wipe first you might as well not bother. And even if you wipe the cart handle you don't know if someone has picked up a product, decided they don't want it and put it back on the shelf.

Ironically when announcements are made to close things down the inevitable result is that people rush to stock up while they can, resulting in more people squashed into the same small space.

the wipes actually don't work and aren't recommended unless they contain bleach

 

[tango]

the wipes actually don't work and aren't recommended unless they contain bleach

Personally I'm not too worried about using wipes anyway - it's simply not practical to wipe every single thing before you touch it so it seems that wiping the handle of the cart creates a false sense of security.

Something I've done for years while I've been out on extended hikes or bicycle rides is to just keep a mental note of whether each individual hand is clean or dirty. The default is naturally clean but if, say, I have to hold a branch to cut it then I note the hand that held the branch is now dirty. When I'm out and about like that I prefer to take food with me that I can eat by holding the wrapper so I don't need to touch the food but if at least one hand is still clean I know I can touch the food if I need to. It's really no different in the store - if my hands touch the handle of the cart they are dirty. If I wiped the cart handle first but later on absent-mindedly rested my hands on some other part of the cart I wouldn't necessarily register that they were now dirty. The way things are at the moment it just takes a smaller impact to shift from "clean" to "dirty".

 

[Lamb]

Yeah to bad people for the most part cant be tested. The most successful countries are the ones doing widespread testing but thanks to our wonderful governemnt that is not possible

@psalms 91 how do you feel about this new administration and the lack of testing availability?

 

[psalms 91]

While I think that Biden has many shortcomings and I dont like the lack of testing at all I am still glad that Trump is not in there and I pray that he is charged over Jan 56. He is a con man and a thug from what I have seen. I know this isnt popular on here but I just cant get behind this huckster.

 

[Lamb]

While I think that Biden has many shortcomings and I dont like the lack of testing at all I am still glad that Trump is not in there and I pray that he is charged over Jan 56. He is a con man and a thug from what I have seen. I know this isnt popular on here but I just cant get behind this huckster.

I didn't ask about Trump. Our country is having a harder time than they did under Trump getting tests. Why is that? Biden was supposed to "shut down the virus" according to his campaign. You should be as furious with him as you were with Trump.

 

[tango]

While I think that Biden has many shortcomings and I dont like the lack of testing at all I am still glad that Trump is not in there and I pray that he is charged over Jan 56. He is a con man and a thug from what I have seen. I know this isnt popular on here but I just cant get behind this huckster.

Here's a radical thought. How about answering the question?

 

[hedrick]

Biden has generally taken the right steps, but at times too late. People originally criticized his push for boosters, but that turns out to have been right. Vaccine distribution has gone well. Testing ramp up is too late. The CDC is no longer under political restraint, but has longstanding institutional issues that tend to make it recognize things too late. However trying to move closer to the leading edge has its own risks. The recent change on isolation rules is an example.

I think his vaccine mandates make sense.

Lack of a national app to document vaccination is pretty clearly a political judgement. We probably should have one, but states that need it have done their own. The views in different states are so different that trying to push uniform policies would probably cause more conflict than they are worth. But you can certainly criticize him for not doing that.

 

[Lamb]

Biden has generally taken the right steps, but at times too late. People originally criticized his push for boosters, but that turns out to have been right. Vaccine distribution has gone well. Testing ramp up is too late. The CDC is no longer under political restraint, but has longstanding institutional issues that tend to make it recognize things too late. However trying to move closer to the leading edge has its own risks. The recent change on isolation rules is an example.

I think his vaccine mandates make sense.

Lack of a national app to document vaccination is pretty clearly a political judgement. We probably should have one, but states that need it have done their own. The views in different states are so different that trying to push uniform policies would probably cause more conflict than they are worth. But you can certainly criticize him for not doing that.

It would have been far better if Biden and especially VP Harris hadn't belittled the vaccine during their campaigns and turned it into something political. It also would have been far better if the vaccine had been a true vaccine instead of a therapeutic.

The issue I have with people is they complained about one administration and not the other now that the other is suffering far worse in the amount of deaths and cases and not sufficient amount of tests. If you complain about one administration, to be fair, when the other is just as bad, complain about them too.

 

[Andrew]

Fauci is head of the NIAID department in the NIH who funded gain of function in Wuhan.

What does gain of function mean?

They used spike proteins on rats to gain the function of transmitting the SARS Covid virus from bats to human cells, creating viruses not found in nature that could be a potential danger to the world if released... that's exactly what happened.

In my opinion he is no better than any of Hitlers nazi scientists..

He lied to congress and should be imprisoned for it with an additional charge of crimes against humanity.

 

[Fritz Kobus]

Absolutely should not have mandatory shots or testing or masks. I have not worn a mask, not ever been tested, and definitely an not getting the jab. I have mixed with many groups, unmasked, of widely varying size and have not been sick in nearly 2 years. Where is this so-called pandemic? If anyone feels the jab will protect them, go ahead and get the jab, but the jab is worthless for that purpose. A guy at work who is jabbed is worred about being around unjabbed people. Why? If the jab protects you, why worry? Why force others to get the Jab? Do you want to live in a police state?

Biden is a criminal and should be taken to GITMO. He bribed the Ukraine government with our tax dollars and that is enough to convict him, but there is so much more. Trump has a squeaky clean record. Ha they tried so hard to do Trump in and just cannot find anything to prosecute him about. Jan 6 was a government operation to discredit Trump supporters. Anyone who cannot see this must believe in the the mainstream media.

 

[tango]

There are many reasons to oppose vaccine mandates, especially for this particular vaccine.

Since it is clear that the vaccine doesn't prevent the vaccinated from spreading the virus the societal benefits are minimal at best. Therefore there is no reason to mandate it "for the greater good". In any event if something is mandated the question must be answered as to who is liable for unexpected and potentially catastrophic side effects - it simply isn't acceptable to say that people have to have jab and if it ruins their life then, gee, that's just too bad.

In the normal process of making a medical decision we can find information about the risks and benefits of a procedure so we can make an informed judgment. With this vaccine, that doesn't appear to actually be a vaccine by any traditional definition of the word, all we've got is endless political blathering about how important it is that we all take it with precious little information about possible side effects. We're already talking about three shots, four shots - where does it stop? And as Lammchen said above, it's particularly ironic when senior Democrats were very vocal about refusing to take a vaccine developed under Trump's watch, only to now turn around and demand that people must face ever-more societal exclusion for not taking the exact same jab.

At present what we have is a situation in which most of us face an incredibly small risk of serious harm from the virus, the jab that doesn't protect us from the virus comes with what appears to be a somewhat smaller risk of long-term harm from side-effects but it's hard to find accurate information, and the jab that doesn't protect us from the virus doesn't protect those around us from the virus either.

My personal risk assessment is very simple. Early numbers indicated a 0.02% chance of death if I caught the virus. I did catch it and survived it, so I figure natural immunity will reduce 0.02% to something smaller, but it's hard to say how much smaller. The best figures I've found indicate something like a 0.001% chance of severe side effects from the jab. The benefit to those around me from taking the jab is virtually nothing. Therefore there's little reason for me to take it. The sense that anything negative about the jab is endlessly covered up doesn't inspire confidence.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

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