COMMUNION: Does "is" mean "is?" Catholic, Lutheran, Evangelical

[MennoSota]

They were celebrating the Passover before Jesus instituted His Supper, so Lutherans use unleavened bread and wine in Holy Communion. If you're looking to be legalistic about it such as percentages of wheat or whatever, Jesus didn't make such commands. He took the bread...He took the cup (wine)...so bread and wine are sufficient for Communion.

My point gets to the question: Is God not always present and if so can He be equally present if communion is celebrated using kool-aid and Ritz crackers?

 

[MennoSota]

We bake ours for every Communion Service...

I want to think Christ had baked bread for the Passover meal...

Bread is baked daily in households in middle-eastern communities to this day...

Arsenios

Is it the same wheat or barley mix that Jesus used? Is the wine the same as used by the apostles? When Jesus said "This is my body" and "This is my blood" was he only referring to that specific bread and cup? He told the apostles to have the meal in "remembrance" of him, not in actuality of him. Did Jesus partake of that meal, by which he tore his own body and re-ate it while also drinking his own blood? It seems so contrary to Jewish culture to eat and drink one's own body/blood. Is there a slight chance that Jesus was using symbolism rather than being literal?

 

[Lamb]

My point gets to the question: Is God not always present and if so can He be equally present if communion is celebrated using kool-aid and Ritz crackers?

Was the Lord's Supper instituted with crackers and Kool-Aid? This do...isn't that what the Lord said? What did He hold up? Not crackers (although some crackers are like unleavened bread so this could be iffy). Not Kool-Aid (he definitely didn't have Kool-Aid in the cup). So if you're using those items, then you aren't doing when He says "this do" in remembrance of me.

 

[psalms 91]

Our church uses home baked bread and my other one uses matzo, I prefer the matza not for taste but rather I think it is closer to what Jesus did. One other thing Imentioned that I do communion at home and to me it is done in remembrance of Him and as a priest (God says we are kings and priests) I find nothing wrong with this. I am not just serving up grape juice and bread but rather am reverant in it and read the appropriate passages. I do this because our church only serves it once a month and I take seriously the commandment to do this often.

 

[MennoSota]

Was the Lord's Supper instituted with crackers and Kool-Aid? This do...isn't that what the Lord said? What did He hold up? Not crackers (although some crackers are like unleavened bread so this could be iffy). Not Kool-Aid (he definitely didn't have Kool-Aid in the cup). So if you're using those items, then you aren't doing when He says "this do" in remembrance of me.

Follow the logic. If you are bound to do communion just as Jesus did, then the church must have a sadir meal in an upper room with the same type of wine (alcoholics who cares) and unleavened bread. Failure to use the same ingredients as Jesus used would make it impossible for real presence or actual body/blood to exist.
There is a significant conundrum with the Lutheran, RC and EO interpretation of communion to the point that it becomes idolatry.

 

[Lamb]

Follow the logic. If you are bound to do communion just as Jesus did, then the church must have a sadir meal in an upper room with the same type of wine (alcoholics who cares) and unleavened bread. Failure to use the same ingredients as Jesus used would make it impossible for real presence or actual body/blood to exist.
There is a significant conundrum with the Lutheran, RC and EO interpretation of communion to the point that it becomes idolatry.

Jesus used unleavened bread and wine. He made no such conditions that you think should be imposed upon the communicants.

 

[Albion]

Jesus used unleavened bread and wine. He made no such conditions that you think should be imposed upon the communicants.

Correct. And he was explicit when saying THIS IS... and DO THIS...

He did not include a host of other conditions, and certainly did not say to do it only on Passover. Your explanation here, IOW, accords with the Scriptures.

 

[MennoSota]

Jesus used unleavened bread and wine. He made no such conditions that you think should be imposed upon the communicants.

He said "do this". You take his statement literally. Why then does the LC, RC and EO not literally do exactly what Jesus did? Why the rejection of the sadir meal, but the requirement of bread (but not the same type) and wine (but not the same type)? This seems arbitrary and contrived by the denomination under a spurious "apostolic tradition" clause.

 

[MennoSota]

Our church uses home baked bread and my other one uses matzo, I prefer the matza not for taste but rather I think it is closer to what Jesus did. One other thing Imentioned that I do communion at home and to me it is done in remembrance of Him and as a priest (God says we are kings and priests) I find nothing wrong with this. I am not just serving up grape juice and bread but rather am reverant in it and read the appropriate passages. I do this because our church only serves it once a month and I take seriously the commandment to do this often.

Yes.
The rembrance is very solemn as we do not take lightly the atoning sacrifice of our Sovereign King on our behalf.
The term "often" is a personal preference and your comment regarding each adopted child being a priest is noteworthy in that any believer can serve communion at any time.

 

[pinacled]

Eating and drinking in an worthy manner is what stood out to me.
Also what hasnt been stated.
Who was it that betrayed the Lord and is called a son of perdition!

Recently I have witnessed The near unspeakable.
The administration of the communion is the responsibility of the Leaders,..

And if a congregation offers the cup to soak the bread in.
Do not partake of it.

A Warning to all who ahavah the Lord with all their Hearts.

“Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, so that the Son may glorify you — 2 just as you gave him authority over all mankind, so that he might give eternal life to all those whom you have given him. 3 And eternal life is this: to know you, the one true God, and him whom you sent, Yeshua the Messiah.

4 “I glorified you on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 Now, Father, glorify me alongside yourself. Give me the same glory I had with you before the world existed.

6 “I made your name known to the people you gave me out of the world. They were yours, you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me is from you, 8 because the words you gave me I have given to them, and they have received them. They have really come to know that I came from you, and they have come to trust that you sent me.

9 “I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given to me, because they are yours. 10 Indeed, all I have is yours, and all you have is mine, and in them I have been glorified. 11 Now I am no longer in the world. They are in the world, but I am coming to you. Holy Father, guard them by the power of your name, which you have given to me, so that they may be one, just as we are. 12 When I was with them, I guarded them by the power of your name, which you have given to me; yes, I kept watch over them; and not one of them was destroyed (except the one meant for destruction, so that the Tanakh might be fulfilled). 13 But now, I am coming to you; and I say these things while I am still in the world so that they may have my joy made complete in themselves.

14 “I have given them your word, and the world hated them, because they do not belong to the world — just as I myself do not belong to the world. 15 I don’t ask you to take them out of the world, but to protect them from the Evil One. 16 They do not belong to the world, just as I do not belong to the world. 17 Set them apart for holiness by means of the truth — your word is truth. 18 Just as you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19 On their behalf I am setting myself apart for holiness, so that they too may be set apart for holiness by means of the truth.

20 “I pray not only for these, but also for those who will trust in me because of their word, 21 that they may all be one. Just as you, Father, are united with me and I with you, I pray that they may be united with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. 22 The glory which you have given to me, I have given to them; so that they may be one, just as we are one — 23 I united with them and you with me, so that they may be completely one, and the world thus realize that you sent me, and that you have loved them just as you have loved me.

24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am; so that they may see my glory, which you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. 25 Righteous Father, the world has not known you, but I have known you, and these people have known that you sent me. 26 I made your name known to them, and I will continue to make it known; so that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I myself may be united with them.”

The synagogue of satans time is over.

Tempting people to partake of bread soaked in wine to invoke evil and curse innocent Children is unforgivable.

the one given over to destruction is judas, the betrayer.

(1) How blessed are those who care for the poor!
When calamity comes, Adonai will save them.
3 (2) Adonai will preserve them, keep them alive,
and make them happy in the land.
You will not hand them over
to the whims of their enemies.
4 (3) Adonai sustains them on their sickbed;
when they lie ill, you make them recover.
5 (4) I said, “Adonai, have pity on me!
Heal me, for I have sinned against you!”
6 (5) My enemies say the worst about me:
“When will he die and his name disappear?”
7 (6) When they come to see me they speak insincerely,
their hearts meanwhile gathering falsehoods;
then they go out and spread bad reports.
8 (7) All who hate me whisper together against me,
imagining the worst about me.
9 (8) “A fatal disease has attached itself to him;
now that he lies ill, he will never get up.”
10 (9) Even my close friend, on whom I relied,
who shared my table, has turned against me.

11 (10) But you, Adonai, have pity on me,
put me on my feet, so I can pay them back.
12 (11) I will know you are pleased with me
if my enemy doesn’t defeat me.
13 (12) You uphold me because of my innocence
you establish me in your presence forever.

14 (13) Blessed be Adonai the God of Isra’el
from eternity past to eternity future.

Amen. Amen.

 

[Lamb]

Pinacled, is your post about Intinction?

 

[Albion]

Tempting people to partake of bread soaked in wine to invoke evil and curse innocent Children is unforgivable.

Whoever sold you that goofy theory? And why did you believe them?

 

[Andrew]

JUust one point, we are called to be kings and priests so I dont buy that only certain clergy can do communion. I abide by it withinn the church but if I want to serve communion at home there is nothing wrong with this at all. I really dont like the idea of seminaries rather than the Holy Spirit teaching, if you want examples just look ata couple of the threads on here and I defy anyone to say that hey would reach the masses in church or out. Personally I think it would confuse many and one thing I learned was to preach to and not at an audience, if they dont comprehend then it is just hot air.

It confused my dad because they did it in Latin lol might as well do the mass in tongues

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

 

[Andrew]

Unleavened or leavened bread? White wine, Red wine, Pinot Noir? Which type changes to real presence? What percentage of alcohol is too much? Can we use rye bread? Must it be organic with no modern presevatives? What works and what doesn't in the magical mystery tour of changing into Jesus real flesh and real blood? Can someone use Ritz crackers in a pinch, with grape kool-aid? Is there a secret formula passed down by the apostles?

Wine is symbolic of blood and blood symbolic of the gospel according to the gospel.

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

 

[Lamb]

Wine is symbolic of blood and blood symbolic of the gospel according to the gospel.

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

Could you post the scripture that insists it's symbolic? In remembrance of me says nothing about it being symbolic.

 

[pinacled]

Pinacled, is your post about Intinction?

The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.”
If by definition this is dipping bread into wine. Then Yes
It is Unforgivable. And I Warn everyone reading, Never partake of this offering.
And if ever you meet someone who calls Yeshua cursed, dust off your Feet.

 

[MennoSota]

Wine is symbolic of blood and blood symbolic of the gospel according to the gospel.

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

Symbolic...we agree...but our friends in the RC, EO and LC disagree...

 

[MennoSota]

Could you post the scripture that insists it's symbolic? In remembrance of me says nothing about it being symbolic.

Do you think Jesus, being Jewish, was saying "drink real blood" and "eat human flesh" as reality? How would his Jewish followers reacted if they thought he was speaking of real flesh and blood rather than symbolic? I'll tell you...they would have rejected his anti-Jewish statement and his utter disrespect for Yahweh's laws immediately on the spot. The fact they did not reject him tells me that Jesus was clearly being symbolic.

 

[pinacled]

Pinacled, is your post about Intinction?

Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
28 Now no man at the table knew for what intent he spake this unto him.

Like i said, they are cursing the innocent and will be dealt with swiftly.
And a Warning to all Readers.
Do not associate or be around any of the persons who offered this cup.

 

[Andrew]

Could you post the scripture that insists it's symbolic? In remembrance of me says nothing about it being symbolic.

It can only be symbolic, we know what 'truth' is and so we can suggest 'literal' by those terms. When a believer says they are covered in the blood of Christ we know that they are referring strictly to the new covenant/testimony of Christ/gospel/good news and our atonement through Jesus Christ the Son of God and the Holy lifeline/blood and his work on the cross etc... and not dripping with actual blood when they say 'covered in'. The word 'symbolic' wouldnt appear in the scripture but we know that Peter was symbolic of a rock because he had a strong foundation of belief by confessing that Jesus is the Son of God. When you do something in 'remembrance of' you are doing it symbolically and traditionally to remember them by. figuratively may also be the case but i'll stick to symbolic and literal (believers 'truth').

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk