Church... A word of pagan origin -

[Alithis]

1. Who said you're commanded to go to a church?

2. Your friend has issues with church. It's very obvious. And you seem to be following his path in being against church and want to spread that. That's obvious too.

In church we can assemble together as believers. There are church buildings where other believers know that Jesus is being proclaimed and it doesn't have to be hidden or forbidden. God works amazing things within churches even though you're against them. I don't care that you feel that people who go to church don't live up to your expectations but God is working within them.

You said.. Church can mean a building...
Your words.

And that is the whole point the blog is about.attacking the author who is busy being part of gods body and obeying him doesnt change the facts.

The word church can as you say mean a building.
But the word ecclessia.. Never means that.
They substituted the word inserted another word .
Ecclesia never refers to a building ,a set time or a set place.

It means the called out ones who assemble unto jesus ..his assembly.
They cangather in 2 and 3's in homes ,feiids ,forets ,coffee shops..they are the assembling of the lords children. His body,his living walking temple.led bythe holy spirit. Not herded into buildings to be controlled by religious men .

 

[amadeois]

The front on the other side of the world has awakened.

The Western front is still VERY QUIET.



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[Lamb]

You said.. Church can mean a building...
Your words.

And that is the whole point the blog is about.attacking the author who is busy being part of gods body and obeying him doesnt change the facts.

The word church can as you say mean a building.
But the word ecclessia.. Never means that.
They substituted the word inserted another word .
Ecclesia never refers to a building ,a set time or a set place.

It means the called out ones who assemble unto jesus ..his assembly.
They cangather in 2 and 3's in homes ,feiids ,forets ,coffee shops..they are the assembling of the lords children. His body,his living walking temple.led bythe holy spirit. Not herded into buildings to be controlled by religious men .

I speak English so yes, church can mean a building. God wants us to assemble together. Men have chosen to do that in a building and that building is usually easily recognized by people so they know it is the house of worship. That isn't wrong. It isn't against God's commands but it appears you and your author want to push that it is wrong.

 

[Lamb]

The front on the other side of the world has awakened.

The Western front is still VERY QUIET.



Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

Would you care to explain this?

 

[tango]

You said.. Church can mean a building...
Your words.

And that is the whole point the blog is about.attacking the author who is busy being part of gods body and obeying him doesnt change the facts.

The word church can as you say mean a building.
But the word ecclessia.. Never means that.
They substituted the word inserted another word .
Ecclesia never refers to a building ,a set time or a set place.

It means the called out ones who assemble unto jesus ..his assembly.
They cangather in 2 and 3's in homes ,feiids ,forets ,coffee shops..they are the assembling of the lords children. His body,his living walking temple.led bythe holy spirit. Not herded into buildings to be controlled by religious men .

If two or three gather it's easy. That sort of thing happens a lot. One might meet with another to talk/pray/etc in which case you can meet just about anywhere. But what happens if a dozen want to meet? In this day and age most homes are far too small to comfortably cope with a dozen people and if you go much more than that it gets ever-more cramped before becoming impossible. So where two or three can meet wherever and whenever, two or three dozen (and even more so two or three hundred) need a place big enough for them all to meet.

In theory there's no reason why there shouldn't be house churches, it's just a shame if there is no church this week because the host was away and nobody else had space to step in and host it. Or if the church had to split because it had 10 people and another two wanted to join, the host couldn't fit 12 in and nobody else had space to host a group. So we meet in buildings, but I don't see anybody in the thread saying that's the only way to do it. Some Sundays I skip church and go for a long walk in the woods, where I can think, meditate, pray, and generally be alone with my thoughts and with God. Other times I go to the church building and meet with other believers. Why is it an issue which one any given individual chooses to do on any given day?

 

[amadeois]

@Lammchen

When I came to the forum, on this thread, nobody was posting anything. We here in America are in the Western side of the world.

Then the first one to post something was Alithis who is on the other side.

The thread at the time was very quiet.

Peace be with you and all of us posting here.

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[popsthebuilder]

The Koine Greek word means a gathering, an assembly.... it often indicates the corpus or community of a group of people.


True, in Koine Greek, it doesn 't refer to a building. Or a denomination. But in MODERN ENGLISH, it has gained those additional meanings.


SO WHAT?


:dunno:




.

So that isn't adding to the Word of GOD through translation?

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Alithis]

If two or three gather it's easy. That sort of thing happens a lot. One might meet with another to talk/pray/etc in which case you can meet just about anywhere. But what happens if a dozen want to meet? In this day and age most homes are far too small to comfortably cope with a dozen people and if you go much more than that it gets ever-more cramped before becoming impossible. So where two or three can meet wherever and whenever, two or three dozen (and even more so two or three hundred) need a place big enough for them all to meet.

In theory there's no reason why there shouldn't be house churches, it's just a shame if there is no church this week because the host was away and nobody else had space to step in and host it. Or if the church had to split because it had 10 people and another two wanted to join, the host couldn't fit 12 in and nobody else had space to host a group. So we meet in buildings, but I don't see anybody in the thread saying that's the only way to do it. Some Sundays I skip church and go for a long walk in the woods, where I can think, meditate, pray, and generally be alone with my thoughts and with God. Other times I go to the church building and meet with other believers. Why is it an issue which one any given individual chooses to do on any given day?

it is an issue because of the reasons it is done .

#1 being money
#2 being control

most here attend a set building under a set man made hierarchy because they have been conditioned to by man made controls via man based doctrines taught to them -and don't even know it .

 

[tango]

it is an issue because of the reasons it is done .

#1 being money
#2 being control

most here attend a set building under a set man made hierarchy because they have been conditioned to by man made controls via man based doctrines taught to them -and don't even know it .

Not every church is about the money. As careers go the church isn't high on the list of ways to get rich quick. I know there are the prosperity preachers who get rich on the back of the desperate but most ministers I've known are anything but rich.

 

[Alithis]

I speak English so yes, church can mean a building. God wants us to assemble together. Men have chosen to do that in a building and that building is usually easily recognized by people so they know it is the house of worship. That isn't wrong. It isn't against God's commands but it appears you and your author want to push that it is wrong.

i speak English too .. and "assembly "(called-out ones) never means building . and that is the correct translation of the word ecclesia .

 

[Alithis]

Not every church is about the money. As careers go the church isn't high on the list of ways to get rich quick. I know there are the prosperity preachers who get rich on the back of the desperate but most ministers I've known are anything but rich.

probaly true , how many have you known lol .
but they all (especially in long established denom's ) send back to a home base so to speak . and there is amassed a great wealth while widows in the pews struggle to eek out their 10% law based tithe while being told they are told they are not under the law ..except that one, they are still under that one apparently lol .. ..hmmm that should be bought up again in a noter contradiction thread ..

 

[psalms 91]

as to the 10 per cent if it is eked out keep it, God loves a cheerful giver and is one of the areas that you should be glad to do

 

[tango]

probaly true , how many have you known lol .
but they all (especially in long established denom's ) send back to a home base so to speak . and there is amassed a great wealth while widows in the pews struggle to eek out their 10% law based tithe while being told they are told they are not under the law ..except that one, they are still under that one apparently lol .. ..hmmm that should be bought up again in a noter contradiction thread ..

I could ask you the same question. It's easy to make comments about what "many" or "most" do based on experience of maybe half a dozen and a lot of hearsay.

At the church I attended for years (and still do visit when I'm back in the area) there was no pressure to give at all. When the offering was announced it was stressed that it was for regulars and members and that visitors shouldn't feel obliged to give at all. No mention was made of tithes, it was accepted that people would give what they believed was right to give. When we held events that had a cost the church was willing to absorb the cost to make sure people didn't stay away simply because they couldn't afford it, and we had gift days where people could make a donation towards the cost - the intention was that those who could afford to fund their own places would do so, those who could not would give what they thought was appropriate (maybe what they could afford) and those who could afford to fund their own place and give towards the cost of someone else's place were free to do so. If there was a shortfall the church would cover it.

I've read and heard that a lot of the prosperity-based churches insist on a full tithe and I've heard a few Christians asking whether 10% should be based on their gross or net income. I'd imagine the kind of church that just wants to fleece the flock would insist on 10% of the full gross income, while the churches I've been to either haven't mentioned it or have merely pointed people towards "God loves a cheerful giver".

 

[amadeois]

WWJD

Stands for "What Would Jesus Do?"

How about: What DID Jesus Do?

Because He was a good jew, he attended the Synagogues on the Sabbath day.

When He presented His word, He did it all over the place, His preference was not inside buildings.

He did marvelous things inside buildings like at the wedding in Cana, but His message was done outside.

The greatest gatherings were thousands.

Things got changed to arrange things to OUR CONVENIENCE and not to God.

Tithing was mandated when the temple was around and it represented a method to sustain the Levitra that were chosen to take care of the temple and it's activities.

Now there is no temple, thus no levites working in it.

ISN'T OUR OWN BODIES SUPPOSED TO BE THE TEMPLE AND WE THE PRIESTS?

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[Lamb]

it is an issue because of the reasons it is done .

#1 being money
#2 being control

most here attend a set building under a set man made hierarchy because they have been conditioned to by man made controls via man based doctrines taught to them -and don't even know it .

Now you've finally posted the truth about why you hate "church".

As tango points out, not all churches are about that so it's no reason to try to convince others that all churches are BAD and no one should go to them.

I go to a small church with an older crowd. I never hear a sermon on money. I never hear a sermon on control. I hear tons of JESUS OUR SAVIOR and the forgiveness of sins. I'm fed by God's Word. That's something that some people who refuse to go to church do not get.

 

[MoreCoffee]

My parish church does not demand money from anybody. Nor is anybody controlled by the priest or bishop.

People who do not want to give any money or be under any kind of discipline are free to avoid church if they want to.

 

[tango]

My parish church does not demand money from anybody. Nor is anybody controlled by the priest or bishop.

People who do not want to give any money or be under any kind of discipline are free to avoid church if they want to.

Furthermore, at the churches I've attended in recent years giving to the church even as a regular attendee was very much optional. I attended one church for three months before I put anything into the offering at all. When I was starting up a business for the first few months I wasn't even making enough to cover my living costs and was slowly using up savings, so for that period I probably went six months without giving anything to the church. Nobody bat an eyelid because nobody knows. At one church I attended the minister had no idea who was giving what to the church - as he said if he doesn't know who is a generous donor and who is not he can't be tempted to prioritise his care towards the ones who give more over the ones with a greater need.

 

[Alithis]

I could ask you the same question. It's easy to make comments about what "many" or "most" do based on experience of maybe half a dozen and a lot of hearsay.

At the church I attended for years (and still do visit when I'm back in the area) there was no pressure to give at all. When the offering was announced it was stressed that it was for regulars and members and that visitors shouldn't feel obliged to give at all. No mention was made of tithes, it was accepted that people would give what they believed was right to give. When we held events that had a cost the church was willing to absorb the cost to make sure people didn't stay away simply because they couldn't afford it, and we had gift days where people could make a donation towards the cost - the intention was that those who could afford to fund their own places would do so, those who could not would give what they thought was appropriate (maybe what they could afford) and those who could afford to fund their own place and give towards the cost of someone else's place were free to do so. If there was a shortfall the church would cover it.

I've read and heard that a lot of the prosperity-based churches insist on a full tithe and I've heard a few Christians asking whether 10% should be based on their gross or net income. I'd imagine the kind of church that just wants to fleece the flock would insist on 10% of the full gross income, while the churches I've been to either haven't mentioned it or have merely pointed people towards "God loves a cheerful giver".

lol it was a generalized conversational reply to you i was not stating anything .. , the point remains .. the word church denotes time,place .building .object .. the word ecclesia which is the actual word in the original text ,, never means any of those things .

not sure why that upsets some folks .. but it dos all the same .. , odd

 

[Lamb]

No one is upset as far as I can tell except for the author who hates using "church" in other ways than what he wants.

 

[tango]

lol it was a generalized conversational reply to you i was not stating anything .. , the point remains .. the word church denotes time,place .building .object .. the word ecclesia which is the actual word in the original text ,, never means any of those things .

not sure why that upsets some folks .. but it dos all the same .. , odd

I wasn't aware of it upsetting people. Language evolves, and in modern English "church" can mean both the building and the people who gather within the building. The leadership at the church I attended for years was very keen to stress, particularly through the major renovation project we did, that "church" was the people rather than the building. The church I attend now doesn't always meet in the church building. It does most Sundays but every once in a while we meet elsewhere, or a few of us will meet elsewhere while a regular Sunday service goes on as normal.