Can a case be made for observing more than two acraments?

[Albion]

Catholic and Orthodox churches recognize seven sacraments; Protestants generally recognize only two (or consider only two to be "sacraments of the Gospel"). In a few cases, there are church bodies that admit of three or some other number.

Which view are you more persuaded of...and why?

 

[Josiah]

Catholic and Orthodox churches recognize seven sacraments; Protestants generally recognize only two (or consider only two to be "sacraments of the Gospel"). In a few cases, there are church bodies that admit of three or some other number. Which view are you more persuaded of...and why?

.


A Lutheran perspective...


1. LUTHERANS do not dogmatically number them.... the (literal) wars about the NUMBER was mostly a Catholic/Calvinist one. True, Luther's Small Catechism speaks of 2 (but never says ONLY 2), the Lutheran Confessions also call Confession a "Sacrament" and some Lutherans have even referred to prayer as a Sacrament but again, no where do Lutherans dogmatically state, "There are _____ and only _____ Sacraments." Lutherans never declared that it's WRONG to declare 7 things as Sacraments (or even 70 things). This is a fight between Catholics (and to a lesser extent, Anglican) and Calviniists. We have nothing in the fight.


2. Here's the thing: It's a HUMAN word, invented and defined by HUMANS. And how one defines and uses it largely determines what is and is not a "Sacrament." Modern Lutherans have settled on a definition that DOES suggest two But again, it depends on how HUMANS define it. If you want to define it as "something God may use for His purposes" than tacos or aspirin or rain or even war might be considered a Sacrament.


3. Lutherans do not REJECT any of the things Catholics now label "Sacraments." We too affirm marriage and confirmation and confession, etc. Luther hesitated to label MARRIAGE a Sacrament only because Jesus didn't institute it, it has nothing to do with forgiveness or the granting/strengthing of faith and isn't uniquely Christian but he certainly honored it as highly as the RCC. Luther rejected that only a properly called priest who belonged to the individual RC Denomination could extend the forgiveness of sins but he embrace confession/absolution as highly as the RCC. Luther didn't see Confirmation specifically commanded in the Bible at all but he continued it - and gave it a LOT more emphasis than either the EOC or RCC.


4. All Sacramental churches embrace "The means of grace." Calvin (while not a Sacramentalist) also embraced this view. A "Means of Grace" is a physical means that God may use especially for the application of His grace and of His gifts of spiritual life, the Holy Spirit, saving faith and justification. Luther called them "Tools in the hands of the Carpenter." In and of themselves, they are powerless ... like a hammer in a tool box. BUT in the hands of the Carpenter, great things, ah miracles, can be done (Hey, Jesus gave sight to a man using a mud ball.... God created people from dust). When Billy Graham preached the Gospel, he believed that God could USE that Word for His purposes (and Sacramentalists agree; the Gospel is a "Means of Grace"). Now, is there a MEANS here? Yes, the words of the Gospel. Is there human work here? Yes, Billy worked hard to prepare his sermon and to deliver it... and the unsaved listened to it. But the point is not the human work or even the means but the Carpenter USING those things to create His miracle, to create His gift. The idea of Sacraments flow from this embrace; the question becoming WHAT are His tools. Of course, this all assumes monergism - that it's the CARPENTER that accomplished a miracle, the CARPENTER who creates what thus comes into existence. Sacramental theology was all born with Christianity was clearly monergistic. For some Protestants who believe "God helps those who help themselves" this whole concept makes no sense and is irrelevant; God doesn't need to give or create or do anything, self can do all for self if self gets enough help, time and direction. No tools needed. No Carpenter needed. Just help, time and instruction.



Blessings!


- Josiah




.

 

[Lamb]

Catholic and Orthodox churches recognize seven sacraments; Protestants generally recognize only two (or consider only two to be "sacraments of the Gospel"). In a few cases, there are church bodies that admit of three or some other number.

Which view are you more persuaded of...and why?

The Lutheran definition of Sacrament doesn't fit what the other sacraments as defined by the Catholics and Orthodox.

A sacrament as defined by Lutherans include:
* instituted by God;
* in which God Himself has joined His Word of promise to the visible element;
* and by which He offers, gives and seals the forgiveness of sins earned by Christ

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls!

It’s not a do it yourself religion!
It’s not a bible study!

It’s a covenant!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” not biblical
You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical!

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!
Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

You cannot enter a covenant by “faith alone” must be a ritual outward sign!
Faith and baptism! Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments! Jn 1:16

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice!
The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10


“This promise” (sacred oath of God or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!

Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

Jn 10:10 life, (grace more abundantly)
Jn 1: 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 1:16-17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
(Thru faith and the sacraments!)

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Baptism: (initiation into the covenant)
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The Eucharist: (holy communion)
Mt 26:26-39 Jn 6:51-58 1 Cor 11:23-25

Confession of sins:
Jn 20:23 / 1 Jn 1:9 / 2 cor 5:18

Confirmation
Lk 22:32 acts 8:14-17
acts 14:22

Marriage:
Matt 19:4-6

Holy orders: (priesthood)
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru His priesthood in Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 10:1-8 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 acts 1:17 acts 6:4 acts 8:26
2 Cor 5:18 1 Tim 4:14 Eph 2:20

Extreme unction: (anointing with oil)
1 Tim 4:14 James 5:14

The one, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles!

———

A sacrament is an outward efficacious sign instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus Christ himself is the sacrament, as he gave his life to save mankind. His humanity is the outward sign or the instrument of his Divinity. It is through his humanity that the life of the Trinity comes to us as grace through the sacraments. It is Jesus Christ alone who mediates the sacraments to allow grace to flow to mankind.

Christ sent the Holy Spirit at Pentecost to inspire his Apostles and his Church to shepherd his flock after his Ascension into heaven. "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you" (John 17:18, 20:21). Jesus is the Head of his Body the Church (Colossians 1:18). The Church itself is a sacrament instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus gave us his Body the Church to continue the works he performed during his earthly life. Grace given to us through the sacraments will help us lead a good life in this world and help save us for the Kingdom of Heaven.

The sacraments were instituted by Christ! The Church celebrates in her liturgy the Paschal mystery of Christ, his Passion, Sacrifice on the Cross, Resurrection, and Glorious Ascension. The Greek word μυστήριον or mystery in the Greek New Testament is translated into sacramentum in the Latin Vulgate Bible, from which we derive our English word sacrament (examples: Ephesians 1:9, Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:27). The saving effects of Christ's Redemption on the Cross are communicated through the sacraments, especially in the liturgical celebration of the Eucharist.

The seven sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation or Chrismation, Holy Eucharist, Penance, the Anointing of the Sick, Holy Orders, and Matrimony. The three sacraments of Christian Initiation are Baptism, Chrismation or Confirmation, and the Eucharist. The two sacraments of Healing are Penance and the Anointing of the Sick, and the two sacraments of Vocation are Holy Orders and Marriage. Three sacraments, Baptism, Confirmation or Chrismation, and Holy Orders, are given once, as they render a permanent seal or character upon one's soul (2 Corinthians 1:21-22, Ephesians 4:30, Revelations 7:3).

The Gospel of Mark 5:25-34 describes a woman afflicted with hemorrhage who touched the cloak of Jesus and was immediately healed. There is a fourth century fresco painting in the catacomb of Sts. Marcellinus and Peter depicting this event, which serves as an apt symbol of Sacrament - the power that flows out from the body of Jesus, in order to effect both remission of sin and new life in Christ. The fresco image frames Part II of the Catechism of the Catholic Church on the Liturgy and the Sacraments, The Celebration of the Christian Mystery. St. Thomas Aquinas, in the Summa Theologica, has written the standard exposition on the Seven Sacraments.

Each sacrament consists of a visible external rite, which is composed of matter and form, the matter being the action, such as the pouring of water in baptism, and the form being the words spoken by the minister. Each sacramental rite confers a special ecclesial effect and sacramental grace appropriate for each sacrament. The sacraments occur at pivotal events and give meaning to a person's life.

The sacraments act ex opere operato, by the very fact of the action being performed, independent of the minister. The effect on the person receiving the sacrament is called ex opere operantis, and depends on the interior disposition of the receiver.

Grace is a favor, the free and undeserved gift from God through Christ Jesus, to help us respond to his call to become children of God, to become partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life. Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is a participation in the life of God and is necessary for salvation.




Infant baptism

This promise to you’re children!

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

This promise made in ez 36
A promise from God is a sacred oath, and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Acts 16:15 entire household baptized
(And it does not say accept infants!)

If part of the Christian initiation sacrament of baptism is Not possible then it is not required
That part is simply omitted, in the case of infants the parents pledge to teach the faith, and then at the age of reason they are confirmed.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (It does not say except infants!)

 

[Albion]

Sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls!

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.


1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice!
The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10


Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.



Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.


A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation


Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

Sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls!

Whew. What I've tried to do is separate out the verses that actually do seem to speak to the issue -- the sacraments and how many of them there are.

As you can see., with the possible exception of any that I might have incorrectly omitted, the answer would seem to be "there are two only that were ordained by Christ."

 

[Josiah]

Sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls!

So quote (verbatim) the Scriptures that state that Confirmation "saves souls" and that marriage "saves souls." According to you, if it doesn't "save souls" then it's not a Sacrament.

Now document that JESUS specifically instituted marriage - it didn't exist before this event you will note in Scripture. Do the same for Confirmation.


As for the Lutheran perspective, see post # 2.





.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Whew. What I've tried to do is separate out the verses that actually do seem to speak to the issue -- the sacraments and how many of them there are.

As you can see., with the possible exception of any that I might have incorrectly omitted, the answer would seem to be "there are two only that were ordained by Christ."

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Baptism: (initiation into the covenant)
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The Eucharist: (holy communion)
Mt 26:26-39 Jn 6:51-58 1 Cor 11:23-25

Confession of sins:
Jn 20:23 / 1 Jn 1:9 / 2 cor 5:18

Confirmation
Lk 22:32 acts 8:14-17
acts 14:22

Marriage:
Matt 19:4-6

Holy orders: (priesthood)
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru His priesthood in Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 10:1-8 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 acts 1:17 acts 6:4 acts 8:26
2 Cor 5:18 1 Tim 4:14 Eph 2:20

Extreme unction: (anointing with oil)
1 Tim 4:14 James 5:14

The one, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles!

 

[Josiah]

Mark,


You claim that JESUS must institute something for it to be a 'Sacrament".... that HE specifically instituted it.
You claim that the Sacraments "save souls"

So...

Quote (verbatim) the Scriptures that state that Confirmation "saves souls" and that Jesus specifically instituted Confirmation.
Quote (verbatim) the Scriptures that marriage "saves souls." And that JESUS specifically instituted marriage.
Quote (verbatim) that "extreme unction" "saves souls" and that JESUS specifically, personally instituted it.

According to you, if it doesn't "save souls" then it's not a Sacrament. And if JESUS specifically didn't institute it, it's not a Sacrament.



As for the Lutheran perspective, see post # 2.


- Josiah




.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

So quote (verbatim) the Scriptures that state that Confirmation "saves souls" and that marriage "saves souls." According to you, if it doesn't "save souls" then it's not a Sacrament.

Now document that JESUS specifically instituted marriage - it didn't exist before this event you will note in Scripture. Do the same for Confirmation.


As for the Lutheran perspective, see post # 2.





.

Lutheran perspective? Based on what authority? Is luther or Lutherans apostles have authority from Christ?

you also misunderstand salvation
It no one time faith alone deal

the sacraments all 7 give grace
Who needs grace more that a married couple raising a family

see below for more info hope it helps

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Proof of true faith is humble s humble subjection and obedience to Christ and His holy church!

 

[Josiah]

the sacraments all 7 give grace

Mark,

Thank you. but you evaded the question.


Let's try again:


You claim that JESUS must institute something for it to be a 'Sacrament".... that HE specifically instituted it.
You claim that the Sacraments "save souls"

So...

Quote (verbatim) the Scriptures that state that Confirmation "saves souls" and that JESUS specifically and personally instituted it.
Quote (verbatim) the Scriptures that state marriage "saves souls." And that JESUS specifically, personally instituted marriage.
Quote (verbatim) that "extreme unction" "saves souls" and that JESUS specifically, personally instituted it.


According to you, if it doesn't "save souls" then it's not a Sacrament. And if JESUS specifically didn't institute it, it's not a Sacrament.



- Josiah



.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Mark,

Thank you. but you evaded the question.


Let's try again:


You claim that JESUS must institute something for it to be a 'Sacrament".... that HE specifically instituted it.
You claim that the Sacraments "save souls"

So...

Quote (verbatim) the Scriptures that state that Confirmation "saves souls" and that JESUS specifically and personally instituted it.
Quote (verbatim) the Scriptures that state marriage "saves souls." And that JESUS specifically, personally instituted marriage.
Quote (verbatim) that "extreme unction" "saves souls" and that JESUS specifically, personally instituted it.


According to you, if it doesn't "save souls" then it's not a Sacrament. And if JESUS specifically didn't institute it, it's not a Sacrament.



- Josiah



.

Yes to all the above but don’t have a spell, it’s not personal, I’m not attacking you only explaining

 

[Josiah]

Yes to all the above

I didn't ask any questions.


Let's try again:


You claim that JESUS must institute something for it to be a 'Sacrament".... that HE specifically instituted it.
You claim that the Sacraments "save souls"

So...

Quote (verbatim) the Scriptures that state that Confirmation "saves souls" and that JESUS specifically and personally instituted it.
Quote (verbatim) the Scriptures that state marriage "saves souls." And that JESUS specifically, personally instituted marriage.
Quote (verbatim) that "extreme unction" "saves souls" and that JESUS specifically, personally instituted it.


According to you, if it doesn't "save souls" then it's not a Sacrament. And if JESUS specifically didn't institute it, it's not a Sacrament.



- Josiah



.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

I didn't ask any questions.


Let's try again:


You claim that JESUS must institute something for it to be a 'Sacrament".... that HE specifically instituted it.
You claim that the Sacraments "save souls"

So...

Quote (verbatim) the Scriptures that state that Confirmation "saves souls" and that JESUS specifically and personally instituted it.
Quote (verbatim) the Scriptures that state marriage "saves souls." And that JESUS specifically, personally instituted marriage.
Quote (verbatim) that "extreme unction" "saves souls" and that JESUS specifically, personally instituted it.


According to you, if it doesn't "save souls" then it's not a Sacrament. And if JESUS specifically didn't institute it, it's not a Sacrament.



- Josiah



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A sacrament is an outward efficacious sign instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus Christ himself is the sacrament, as he gave his life to save mankind. His humanity is the outward sign or the instrument of his Divinity. It is through his humanity that the life of the Trinity comes to us as grace through the sacraments. It is Jesus Christ alone who mediates the sacraments to allow grace to flow to mankind.

Christ sent the Holy Spirit at Pentecost to inspire his Apostles and his Church to shepherd his flock after his Ascension into heaven. "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you" (John 17:18, 20:21). Jesus is the Head of his Body the Church (Colossians 1:18). The Church itself is a sacrament instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus gave us his Body the Church to continue the works he performed during his earthly life. Grace given to us through the sacraments will help us lead a good life in this world and help save us for the Kingdom of Heaven.

The sacraments were instituted by Christ! The Church celebrates in her liturgy the Paschal mystery of Christ, his Passion, Sacrifice on the Cross, Resurrection, and Glorious Ascension. The Greek word μυστήριον or mystery in the Greek New Testament is translated into sacramentum in the Latin Vulgate Bible, from which we derive our English word sacrament (examples: Ephesians 1:9, Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:27). The saving effects of Christ's Redemption on the Cross are communicated through the sacraments, especially in the liturgical celebration of the Eucharist.

The seven sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation or Chrismation, Holy Eucharist, Penance, the Anointing of the Sick, Holy Orders, and Matrimony. The three sacraments of Christian Initiation are Baptism, Chrismation or Confirmation, and the Eucharist. The two sacraments of Healing are Penance and the Anointing of the Sick, and the two sacraments of Vocation are Holy Orders and Marriage. Three sacraments, Baptism, Confirmation or Chrismation, and Holy Orders, are given once, as they render a permanent seal or character upon one's soul (2 Corinthians 1:21-22, Ephesians 4:30, Revelations 7:3).

The Gospel of Mark 5:25-34 describes a woman afflicted with hemorrhage who touched the cloak of Jesus and was immediately healed. There is a fourth century fresco painting in the catacomb of Sts. Marcellinus and Peter depicting this event, which serves as an apt symbol of Sacrament - the power that flows out from the body of Jesus, in order to effect both remission of sin and new life in Christ. The fresco image frames Part II of the Catechism of the Catholic Church on the Liturgy and the Sacraments, The Celebration of the Christian Mystery. St. Thomas Aquinas, in the Summa Theologica, has written the standard exposition on the Seven Sacraments.

Each sacrament consists of a visible external rite, which is composed of matter and form, the matter being the action, such as the pouring of water in baptism, and the form being the words spoken by the minister. Each sacramental rite confers a special ecclesial effect and sacramental grace appropriate for each sacrament. The sacraments occur at pivotal events and give meaning to a person's life.

The sacraments act ex opere operato, by the very fact of the action being performed, independent of the minister. The effect on the person receiving the sacrament is called ex opere operantis, and depends on the interior disposition of the receiver.

Grace is a favor, the free and undeserved gift from God through Christ Jesus, to help us respond to his call to become children of God, to become partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life. Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is a participation in the life of God and is necessary for salvation.

 

[Josiah]

Mark

See posts 12 and 14

Obviously, nothing you wrote in 13 and15 are a response at all. You said a Sacrament is something JESUS personally and specifically instituted... and "saves souls." Thus my necessary point: Show from Scripture that JESUS specifically and personally instituted Marriage, Confirmation and Extreme Unction;.. and that each of them "saves souls." Thus (according to you) are "Sacraments." Just quote the Sriptures were it is stated that Jesus personally, specifically INSTITUTED those 3... and that states each of them "saves souls;"



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