Buying intellectual work - is it a sin?

Lucian Hodoboc

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Is it a sin to buy intellectual work as if you were buying physical goods and pass it as your own? For example, you have to design a website as a job assignment, but instead of doing the work yourself, you hire a web designer from the internet, pay them to confidentially design the site, and then after it's done, you present the end result as having been designed by you. Is it the same thing as buying cow from the market and referring to it as "my cow"? Is it the same thing as when The Bible mentions that King Solomon started building The Temple, while we assume that he didn't build the temple himself, but rather hired people to do it for him?

Share your opinions about the ethics of buying intellectual work in this thread.
 

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Saying "I designed this" when you didn't is bearing false witness. But saying that the design was made by the company isn't a lie if it was paid for by contract. The company was the one who sought out the worker, explaining and approving the job along the way. They paid for it so it belongs to them in the end.
 

Lucian Hodoboc

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I would have to reread about Solomon...but a company owns what it purchases and can claim it as theirs. I used to be a graphic designer and the work I did was not mine to claim although I could show it for my portfolio. It was always the rights of the company to use as their own.

I suppose individuals shouldn't claim something as their own entirely. If they took part in designing or approving they do have some ownership to the work because of the process.
 

TurtleHare

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God gave Solomon wisdom and with that wisdom Solomon commissioned out the work on building the Temple and his palace and all the while saying he was the one who built it and if it had been a sin to stake that claim you'd think God would have said to Solomon You can't say but he didn't. Cuz Solomon had been given wisdom by God and used it to get stuff done, eh.
 

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Is it a sin to buy intellectual work as if you were buying physical goods and pass it as your own? For example, you have to design a website as a job assignment, but instead of doing the work yourself, you hire a web designer from the internet, pay them to confidentially design the site, and then after it's done, you present the end result as having been designed by you. Is it the same thing as buying cow from the market and referring to it as "my cow"? Is it the same thing as when The Bible mentions that King Solomon started building The Temple, while we assume that he didn't build the temple himself, but rather hired people to do it for him?

Share your opinions about the ethics of buying intellectual work in this thread.

If I buy intellectual property it's mine, just as if I designed something myself. Saying I designed it myself wouldn't be truthful but saying it's my intellectual property would be. In that regard it's no different to me buying a box of oranges - they are my oranges but it would be untruthful to say I grew them myself.

If you pay me to design a web site for you and what I do is pay someone else to design it to your specifications, I don't see a problem with that. The end result for you is that you paid for a web site and you got a web site. The end result for me is that I paid someone else to do some work for me. Unless for some reason you've written your contract with me such that it requires I do the work myself (and it's hard to imagine why you'd care, as long as the work is done to an acceptable quality) it seems perfectly fair to me.
 

Jason76

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Hmmm. I don't like it. It's like what you call "ghost writing" and it's very immoral.
 

tango

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Hmmm. I don't like it. It's like what you call "ghost writing" and it's very immoral.

Why do you consider it immoral?
 

Lucian Hodoboc

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Why do you consider it immoral?

I've read on other forums debates about this issue too. The opinions are so divided on this matter... it's almost incredible! :sad:
 

tango

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I've read on other forums debates about this issue too. The opinions are so divided on this matter... it's almost incredible! :sad:

I struggle to understand the perspective that it's immoral. In the past I've sold intellectual property and see nothing wrong with it. I don't see it as any different to working on a "for hire" basis.

If a client commissions me to create something for them the chances are they will own the finished product, given they specified it and paid for my time and effort in creating it (I realise there are all sorts of possible legal avenues here but in general if the client specifies something and pays for it, they own it). If I create it first, offer it for sale and the client decides to buy it, how is the end result any different? Does it make sense to argue that one is inherently more moral than the other?

The existence of lots of opinions doesn't surprise me. I'll bet if you started a discussion asking people for their thoughts on the result of a flip of a single regular coin you'd probably get a dozen or more opinions.
 

vince284

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I don't see the problem, it's always been done. Just about every position I've held had me sign a form that anything I created or thought of new during my employment was the company's property. Even if it didn't benefit a current customer or the company, but maybe it could in the future. I really don't like the wording in the employee's manuals, but at least they usually gave me a $1 for my brain.
 

tango

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The "thought of" clause is an interesting one. I've often thought of things while working at one place and then developed them, on my own time, after I left.

One job I had years ago managed a little administrative mixup. There was a clause in the employee handbook saying we weren't allowed to work for any other company while working for them. The thing was they never gave me the employee handbook and my contract very clearly said that it (with no mention of the handbook) was the sole definition of my relationship with the company. The other guys in my team didn't like my stance that the handbook didn't apply to me, but as I said to them the contract said it is the sole definition of a relationship so any documents not clearly referenced in my contract didn't apply.
 

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Is it a sin to buy intellectual work as if you were buying physical goods and pass it as your own? For example, you have to design a website as a job assignment, but instead of doing the work yourself, you hire a web designer from the internet, pay them to confidentially design the site, and then after it's done, you present the end result as having been designed by you. Is it the same thing as buying cow from the market and referring to it as "my cow"? Is it the same thing as when The Bible mentions that King Solomon started building The Temple, while we assume that he didn't build the temple himself, but rather hired people to do it for him?

Share your opinions about the ethics of buying intellectual work in this thread.

Ego is always burdensome...


Arsenios
 

Lucian Hodoboc

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What do you mean?
 

tango

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Apparently, John Piper thinks it's idolatry: https://www.morethancake.org/archives/7643

To be honest I think calling it idolatry is just silly.

There's also something of a distinction here. I can see the point that paying someone else to write something and then presenting it as if you wrote it yourself is lying. In that regard I wonder why the ghost writer would be willing to write an entire book and then give someone else all the credit for it. What seems more likely is that a ghost writer might write a blog post and not get due credit for it, in which case it might be argued that it's immoral to leave the implication open that the blog owner wrote it but the whole thing comes down to a matter of opinion.

Buying intellectual work is a very broad topic so it's not necessarily helpful to get hugely bogged down in this opinion of a very specific scenario. The example I think of is the software I've been writing lately. At present it says "copyright (my name)" on it, but if the company I've been working with decides they want to buy the intellectual property in it (and offers a sum that makes me willing to sell) then my name comes off and the software says "copyright (company)". All that means is that they bought the copyright to it - if they then offer it to their customers the fact it lists their name on the copyright statement doesn't say that they wrote it, just that they own the copyright to it.

Likewise if I take a photograph I have the right to put "copyright tango" on it and restrict use. If you decide you want to own my picture you can buy all the rights to it from me, at which point you can put "copyright lucian hodoboc" on it. Putting your copyright notice on it doesn't mean you took it, merely that you own th rights to it.

In the context of what John Piper wrote in the link you posted it looks like he's more concerned with the idea of people writing something to give a false impression, in which case we might look at the motive behind doing something. I can see the reasoning that it's immoral to pay an expert in a field to write something under my name so that I can look like an expert even if I know nothing about that field but frankly the person who tries that is going to get caught out sooner or later anyway.

If someone is sufficiently busy that they choose to pay someone else to write all or part of a piece of work for them it's entirely possible that they don't have the time or feel the need to credit every little part of it. In a scientific paper it is expected that research that is quoted is referenced in detail; in an academic publication it is expected that references will be quoted in a bibliography. In something like a Christian book it's appropriate to credit another published book that is specifically quoted but if an unpublished work is quoted then the difference between "someone else wrote this chapter for me" and "this chapter is based on a discussion with the guys at church" immediately becomes vague. If I wrote a book that had large sections based on discussions with people at church I wouldn't expect to do much more than give them a mention in the "acknowledgements" page at the front.
 

MoreCoffee

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Why do you consider it immoral?

Because the book has "your name" on it as if you are the author when in fact all you did is commission it to be written.
 

tango

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Because the book has "your name" on it as if you are the author when in fact all you did is commission it to be written.

How is that immoral?
 

MoreCoffee

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How is that immoral?

It's inaccurate, perhaps deceitful because if gives the impression that "you" wrote it when in fact you did not. The non-morality of pretending to have done what somebody else has done is too obvious to need further explanation.
 

Lucian Hodoboc

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Because the book has "your name" on it as if you are the author when in fact all you did is commission it to be written.

So does your house's front door despite having been designed by an architect and built by other people.
 
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