Biblical Prophecy

[Lees]

I have noticed that there are few threads on this, or any other forum I visit, that deal with prophecy in the Bible. Why?

Well, one reason may be, because any time one tries to explain some present day events in light of Biblical prophecy, he is immediately met with..."people have been saying that for years". As though, just because it wasn't the time, means it will never occur. This argument comes from both unbelievers, and sadly, believers. So, many Christians are intimidated and refuse to say anything about it.

Another reason is the emptiness and inability of many believers method of interpreting prophecy. They realize when put to the test, their lack in being able to defend their position.

So, what is the common response when something of prophecy is brought up on a forum? "That's already occurred" Or, as I said already, "Everyone has been predicting that for years". Or worse...."you must be dispensationalist". Like that is something straight out of hell.

The bottom line is, ones method of interpreting prophecy will reflect their method of interpreting the Bible. If ones method is just generalizing the Bible, then all that is important is that 'God loves us.' And 'He is a God of love'. And, 'Just try and be good and do what the Bible says'. Therefore, no matter what the prophecy may be saying, they just see it as 'God is showing us He loves us". Yet, we Christians, all know God loves us. He didn't have to write the whole Bible to tell us that.

Prophecy is there for a reason. God showing us what He is going to do. It doesn't matter if it's fulfilled prophecy, or prophecy yet future. He gave it to us to know and understand. The whole Bible is prophetic. (Gen. 2:17) (Gen. 3:15) (Rev. 22:19)

Lees

 

[Messy]

A Jewish forefather from me got saved and one of the reasons was that Daniel predicted exactly when the Messiah would come and it could not be anyone else.

 

[Messy]

And wars and kingdoms from the past were foretold, so they just didn't believe it was written so early, cause it was so accurate and apparently also stuff from now is foretold, according to Amir Tsarfati, but I haven't looked into it much.

 

[Albion]

A Jewish forefather from me got saved and one of the reasons was that Daniel predicted exactly when the Messiah would come and it could not be anyone else.

And wars and kingdoms from the past were foretold, so they just didn't believe it was written so early, cause it was so accurate and apparently also stuff from now is foretold, according to Amir Tsarfati, but I haven't looked into it much.

Presumably, then, he wasn't the beneficiary of some supernatural force that poured the Holy Spirit into him and made him believe. Rather, he read the word of God, divine revelation, which proved itself trustworthy, and he understood its message--exactly what the purpose of divine revelation IS.

 

[Lees]

A Jewish forefather from me got saved and one of the reasons was that Daniel predicted exactly when the Messiah would come and it could not be anyone else.

Praise God.

I was doing some side work years ago at this mans home. He was Jewish. So, I, a Christian, had a chance to talke to him about Jesus.

I asked him what he thought about Jesus Christ. He looked at me and said, a relative of his was one that helped translate the book of Isaiah in the Dead Sea Scrolls. And he had a chance to meet him later.

And so he asked him, do you think the prophecies in Isaiah speak to Jesus Christ? And his relative said, "I don't know".

Then he looked at me and said, you don't realize the power of his answer. For him to say "I don't know", meant he could not dispute the prophecies and fulfillment by Jesus Christ.

It was quite a statement.

Lees

 

[Lees]

Presumably, then, he wasn't the beneficiary of some supernatural force that poured the Holy Spirit into him and made him believe. Rather, he read the word of God, divine revelation, which proved itself trustworthy, and he understood its message--exactly what the purpose of divine revelation IS.

My oh my.

Of course he was the beneficiary of a 'supernatural force'. That force being God the Father.

(Matt. 16:13-17) Jesus asked his disciples, "Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, elias; and others, Jermias, or one of the prophets. He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answere3d and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

Lees

 

[Albion]

My oh my.

Of course he was the beneficiary of a 'supernatural force'. That force being God the Father.

Not what I meant by that term. God is not simply an impersonal, formless force like gravity or magnetism. Yet that is what a lot of people (not you necessarily) think when they hear or say "Holy Spirit."

 

[Messy]

Presumably, then, he wasn't the beneficiary of some supernatural force that poured the Holy Spirit into him and made him believe. Rather, he read the word of God, divine revelation, which proved itself trustworthy, and he understood its message--exactly what the purpose of divine revelation IS.

​

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

The Spirit always works together with the Word. He never goes against the Word.

 

[Albion]

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

The Spirit always works together with the Word. He never goes against the Word.

Is there something in that reply which is intended as a response to my post #7?

If not, it looks like you are affirming the point that the Holy Spirit is not just an impersonal force that overtakes a person but instead is the third person of the Holy Trinity.

 

[Lees]

Not what I meant by that term. God is not simply an impersonal, formless force like gravity or magnetism. Yet that is what a lot of people (not you necessarily) think when they hear or say "Holy Spirit."

Oh please. Quit crawfishing.

You and I know what you meant. The fact is, as I have showed in post #(6), that it is God that opens the eyes of the person who will believe. And of course, as you always do, you just quote what you think you can get away with. What a ...............it.

I gave you the Scripture. How fitting you ignored it. Typical.

Lees

 

[Messy]

Is there something in that reply which is intended as a response to my post #7?

If not, it looks like you are affirming the point that the Holy Spirit is not just an impersonal force that overtakes a person but instead is the third person of the Holy Trinity.

Yes I didn't know what you meant. I thought you meant he didn't get saved by some weird meeting with supposedly the Holy Spirit. An impersonal force, oh yes that's how I thought decades ago.
By the way I read lots of these stories from Jews who got saved. They started to read the O.T. themselves, without listening to the explanation from the rabbi's. One Jewish woman wanted to marry a catholic man and he had to renounce Jesus for it, but he couldn't, so she thought: I'll show him myself from the O.T. that Jesus is not the Messiah and when she looked it up, she got saved.

 

[Lees]

The risen Jesus Christ stated that the whole Old Testament is prophetic and speaks about Him.

(Luke 24:26-27) "Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses, and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself."

(Luke 24:44) "And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me."

The history of Israel is not just a history. It too is prophetic. Consider (Ps. 22). "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me...." Though we don't know the experience David was going through that motivated him to write this Psalm, it was his experience. He was brought to a place by God to experience something that caused his cry out to God. Which of course is prophetic of Christ's cry and death on the Cross. (Mark 15:34)

And when David fled from Absalom we are told in (2 Sam. 15:23), "And all the country wept with a loud voice, and all the people passed over: the king also himself passed over the brook Kidron, and all the people passed over, toward the way of the wilderness."

(2 Sam. 15:30) "And David went up by the ascent of mount Olivet, and wept as he went up...."

David and his men rejected by the house of Israel.

And we can see this prophetically pointing to the rejection of Christ also by the house of Israel. After the Lord's Supper Jesus and his disciples went to the garden of Gethsemane. They went also by the way of the Mount of Olives. (Mark 14:26) "And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives." (14:31) "And they came to a place which was named Gethsemane....." And to do this they too had to cross the brook Kidron. (John 18:1) "When Jesus had spoken these word, he went forth with his disciples over the brook Cedron, where was a garden...."

David had no idea that his movement in crossing that brook being rejected by his people was speaking to a yet future event concerning the Messiah. But God did, and only God can move the history prophetically.

Lees

 

[Messy]

Joseph and his brothers. They rejected him and he had become a gentile governer. They didn't even recognize him.


A reason why I believe Jesus comes very soon:
Hosea 6
After two days He will revive us;
On the third day He will raise us up,
That we may live in His sight.
3 Let us know,
Let us pursue the knowledge of the Lord.
His going forth is established as the morning;
He will come to us like the rain,
Like the latter and former rain to the earth.

A day is like 1000 years. 2000 years after Jesus' death Ezekiel 37.

 

[Lees]

Joseph and his brothers. They rejected him and he had become a gentile governer. They didn't even recognize him.


A reason why I believe Jesus comes very soon:
Hosea 6
After two days He will revive us;
On the third day He will raise us up,
That we may live in His sight.
3 Let us know,
Let us pursue the knowledge of the Lord.
His going forth is established as the morning;
He will come to us like the rain,
Like the latter and former rain to the earth.

A day is like 1000 years. 2000 years after Jesus' death Ezekiel 37.

Yes, I don't believe there is a greater 'type' or prophetic picture of Jesus Christ then the historical Joseph. There are so many similarities.

Lees

 

[Lees]

In my post #(12) I wrote that the whole history of Israel is prophetic.

But, so also are the Gentile nations.

(Deut. 32:8) "When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel."

Isn't that something? God divided the nations in accordance to the number of the children of Israel. Why would He do that?

Lees

 

[Lees]

And, God divided those nations in the book of Genesis, as I have showed. This was long before Israel was a people or nation.

But He divided the nations in accordance to the number of the children of Israel. In other words, God already planned for Israel to be the leading nation amongst all other nations in the world. Israel will be the nation from which God will rule from over His Kingdom on earth.

Israel would be the head, not the tail, concerning leading the nations of the world. (Deut. 28:13) These prophecies are important because Israel would later be rebellious before God. Would God be true to His Word?

Of course He will. (Jer. 31:31-40) "....Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar, The LORD of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. ...."

Lees

 

[Lees]

I don't think it's too much to say that 'all' Biblical prophecy is moving towards the goal of God destroying the kingdom of Satan and establishing the Kingdom of God upon the earth.

Whether it is addressing the position of the nations in that Kingdom, or the salvation of the people in that Kingdom, or the King in that Kingdom, or the laws in that Kingdom, or the relationship of the people to the King in that Kingdom, Biblical prophecy's goal is the establishment of the Kingdom of God upon the earth.

When Adam and Eve were in the garden prior to the fall, that was the Kingdom of God upon the earth. God was in relation to His people, (Gen. 3:8a), and they were stewards of His creation. (Gen. 2:15-17) But of course after the fall of Adam and Eve, that was no longer the case. (Gen. 3:8b) Their relation to God was damaged and the earth was brought under a curse.

Satan had made his presence known using the serpent to cause the fall of Adam and Eve. Thus Satan was already a fallen creature with his angels. And, we know during the original creation of the earth, that Satan was not yet fallen. (Job 38:4-7) So, at the time of the 6 day creation or restoration, Satan and his angels would be taking notice of what God was doing. Especially when God placed another creature, man, over the earth, instead of an angel. And, I believe, especially since the eath was the sphere of Satans responsibility before he fell. (Ezekiel 28:11-15)

So the spiritual war between God and Satan, has spilled over into the world of man. Man has fallen and Satan and his fallen angels now have access to man and use him to establish their kingdom on earth. And Satan becomes ruler of the world system. (2 Cor. 4:4) (John 12:31) (John 16:11)

All of which brings about the first prophecy of God to establish once again, His Kingdom on earth. (Gen. 3:15) "And I will put enmity between thee, and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." All Biblical prophecy grows out of this verse.

Lees

 

[Prepared]

I have noticed that there are few threads on this, or any other forum I visit, that deal with prophecy in the Bible. Why?

Well, one reason may be, because any time one tries to explain some present day events in light of Biblical prophecy, he is immediately met with..."people have been saying that for years". As though, just because it wasn't the time, means it will never occur. This argument comes from both unbelievers, and sadly, believers. So, many Christians are intimidated and refuse to say anything about it.

Another reason is the emptiness and inability of many believers method of interpreting prophecy. They realize when put to the test, their lack in being able to defend their position.

So, what is the common response when something of prophecy is brought up on a forum? "That's already occurred" Or, as I said already, "Everyone has been predicting that for years". Or worse...."you must be dispensationalist". Like that is something straight out of hell.

The bottom line is, ones method of interpreting prophecy will reflect their method of interpreting the Bible. If ones method is just generalizing the Bible, then all that is important is that 'God loves us.' And 'He is a God of love'. And, 'Just try and be good and do what the Bible says'. Therefore, no matter what the prophecy may be saying, they just see it as 'God is showing us He loves us". Yet, we Christians, all know God loves us. He didn't have to write the whole Bible to tell us that.

Prophecy is there for a reason. God showing us what He is going to do. It doesn't matter if it's fulfilled prophecy, or prophecy yet future. He gave it to us to know and understand. The whole Bible is prophetic. (Gen. 2:17) (Gen. 3:15) (Rev. 22:19)

Lees

I really don't find too many posts about prophecy and when I do I always comment on it and I do hear first off is that people has been saying that for thousands of years.

This is my reply: people have misunderstood prophecy and try to make current events in their times the last days. Several things they fail to realize - probably through no fault of their own not being taught and simply not understanding .....
1) The last days began at the resurrection of Christ -
2) scripture tells us when we see *all* these things come to pass the end is near
3) before the 1900s many of the prophecies had yet to come into play
A. Knowledge increasing Daniel 12:4 (mankind has gone from riding on horses to exploring space in less than 150 years _ technology technology
B. People running to and fro Daniel 12:4 _ people are always on the go day and night _ automation airplanes
C. The mark of the beast had to have a way to be implicated Revelation 13 _ via microchip/ computer or barcode / computer (an article said the Swedes love it)
D. The whole world will see Christ in his angels return Revelations 1: 7 _ television, Internet, cell phones
E. Gospel preach to the whole world then the end will come Matthew 24 _ it is said a hundred tribes are uncontacted but it is also said they have been just certain tribes refuse interaction outside of their tribes. And in doing that it is possible they have rejected the the hearing of the gospel but it is also possible missionaries have made it through.
F. The days of Lot _ it took its final rooting in 1960s by 2020, one can marry the same sex in English seven different countries _ out and open as it was in Sodom and Gomorrah.
G. Israel became a nation / when the times of the gentiles be fulfilled / the fig Tree blooming Matthew 24: 32-34 _ this happened after the six Day war in Israel in 1967. Israel became a nation again hadn't been since Rome destroyed it 300 ad.

Those are the prophecies that had not happened before the 1900s.

Two more important prophecies have to occur and that is the days of Noah and the revealing of the Beast and the Antichrist.


Prophecies that have been seen in the past 2000 years with are also written in the Book of Matthew are increasing in their frequencies. Such as family violence / murders ..... Iniquity / crime ..... Wars and rumors of wars .... Earthquakes in various places ( which includes volcanoes) .... Seas roaring .... Plagues ..... Famine ..... Hearts of people going cold .... False prophets / teachers look at so many of the churches

Usually I don't receive any feedback - well here is one that speaks out concerning the last days.

 

[Lees]

I really don't find too many posts about prophecy and when I do I always comment on it and I do hear first off is that people has been saying that for thousands of years.

This is my reply: people have misunderstood prophecy and try to make current events in their times the last days. Several things they fail to realize - probably through no fault of their own not being taught and simply not understanding .....
1) The last days began at the resurrection of Christ -
2) scripture tells us when we see *all* these things come to pass the end is near
3) before the 1900s many of the prophecies had yet to come into play
A. Knowledge increasing Daniel 12:4 (mankind has gone from riding on horses to exploring space in less than 150 years _ technology technology
B. People running to and fro Daniel 12:4 _ people are always on the go day and night _ automation airplanes
C. The mark of the beast had to have a way to be implicated Revelation 13 _ via microchip/ computer or barcode / computer (an article said the Swedes love it)
D. The whole world will see Christ in his angels return Revelations 1: 7 _ television, Internet, cell phones
E. Gospel preach to the whole world then the end will come Matthew 24 _ it is said a hundred tribes are uncontacted but it is also said they have been just certain tribes refuse interaction outside of their tribes. And in doing that it is possible they have rejected the the hearing of the gospel but it is also possible missionaries have made it through.
F. The days of Lot _ it took its final rooting in 1960s by 2020, one can marry the same sex in English seven different countries _ out and open as it was in Sodom and Gomorrah.
G. Israel became a nation / when the times of the gentiles be fulfilled / the fig Tree blooming Matthew 24: 32-34 _ this happened after the six Day war in Israel in 1968. Israel became a nation again hadn't been since Rome destroyed it 300 ad.

Those are the prophecies that had not happened before the 1900s.

Two more important prophecies have to occur and that is the days of Noah and the revealing of the Beast and the Antichrist.


Prophecies that have been seen in the past 2000 years with are also written in the Book of Matthew are increasing in their frequencies. Such as family violence / murders ..... Iniquity / crime ..... Wars and rumors of wars .... Earthquakes in various places ( which includes volcanoes) .... Seas roaring .... Plagues ..... Famine ..... Hearts of people going cold .... False prophets / teachers look at so many of the churches

Usually I don't receive any feedback - well here is one that speaks out concerning the last days.

Good to hear.

I would say, concerning prophecy and current events, that current events are always moving towards the fulfillment of future prophecy. Therefore, it is not wrong for the believer to try and see how our current events possibly are either a fulfillment, or the setting of the stage for the fulfillment.

There are certainly prophecies which have been fulfilled, and prophecies which are yet future. And of course there is great disagreement concerning those.

Could you give when you believe the 'last days' began and it's Scripture? In other words, the time period from beginning to end.

I ask because if the 'last days' began with the Resurrection of Christ, then we are apparently in the 'last days' now. And, if so, why shouldn't the believer in Christ pay attention to the current events today and their role in the fulfillment of future prophecy?

For example, you stated 1968 as the year of the fulfillment of the prohecy concerning Israel becoming a nation again. So, if one was a believer back then, then he would be correct in seeing the fulfillment of prophecy in current events.

Lees

 

[Lees]

The prophecy in (Gen. 3:15) was directly from God Himself. But, after the fall, most will come from God using man, or angel. The prophetic ministry will eventually be centered in the nation Israel. But that won't be until the time of Moses.

So, between Adam and Moses God used certain men as prophets. I believe Abel was possibly a prophet as Jesus included him in (Matt. 23:34-35). Enoch the 7th from Adam was a prophet giving a prophecy of, not the first coming of Christ, but the Second. (Jude 14-15) Noah prophecied of the nature and division of mankind as found in his three sons. (Gen. 9:25-17) God declares Abraham, the father of Israel, to be a prophet. (Gen. 20:7)

Interesting to me that mankind from Adam to the Flood resulted in one man declared righteous on the earth. Noah. (Gen. 7:1) And so after the flood, God would find one man, Abraham, and from that one man make one nation of His, Israel. And, as already said, prophecy would mainly be confined to Israel, from the Jews.

Of course the atheist's and their scholars believe the prophetic ministry found in Israel was just a copy of the heathens methods and gods they would encounter either in Egypt or Canaan. And they can always cite some similarities. But, you must remember, Satan is the imitator, not God. And all the heathens false gods were the result of perverting God's prophetic program that He gave long ago in the signs of the Zodiac. (Job 38:31-32) Which is quite a study itself.

Lees