As a voting Christian...

Lamb

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Regarding healthcare, as Trump has said, he would "get rid of the lines." By this, he means state borders. He would erase the current rules that prohibit customers from seeking health policies from companies outside the borders (the "lines") of their own state. When this rule is erased, customers would be able to seek policies from companies in ANY state. It would open things up for customers to seek policies from companies all across the nation. It would open up the good ol' American spirit of competition -- which would probably lower the coverage costs by a dramatic amount. The companies would also have to accept all pre-existing conditions, which is one of the few virtues of ObamaCare.

I find this interesting! Which states have really low healthcare options, do you know?
 

MoreCoffee

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getting rid of any state specific legal requirement for health insurance may be outside the powers of a President and it is also likely that the states would have to agree before it could happen. If it did happen what guarantee is there that it would decrease health insurance premiums? And competition was free and wild in the 19th century and it resulted in monopolies that could only be brought under control by laws restricting certain practises and disallowing 'vertical integration'. One ought not to place one's hopes in "the free market" because it is a self seeking entity that aims for maximising profit rather than maximising customer benefits within a profitable structure. Consider how CEO and other top executive salaries and salary packages have inflated until they are so bloated that many companies sacrifice 5%, 10%, 20% and more of their net income paying them. Government may be unsightly and unpopular but is market place greed more beauteous?

When you vote your votes ought to be aimed at things that promote stability, decency, and community not just promises of economic gain because even if economic gain can help with some of the things I mentioned you have to ask who get the gains and will the gains really be spent on the things that you, your family, and your community want and need?
 

visionary

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Don't you wish God would make the right candidates head glow like Moses from Mount Sinai, so that you can know which one to vote for?
 

psalms 91

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Yes but what I really am not sure of is who He wants to lead us into our downfall as I believe this next one will definitely do that, maybe thats why Trump makes sense
 

tango

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Basically there are around 30% Demos, 30% Repubs and the rest are swing voters. Generally speaking, a candidate can count on the 30% from their party. The election results then depend on what the independent/swing voters do. In Romney's case, he was such a lackluster, lame candidate that over FOUR MILLION of that 30% Repub base refused to vote and, in effect, they gave Obama his second term. If the Repubs had fronted a better candidate, those 4 million voters would have went to the voting booths and Obama would have been a one-term president.

That makes sense, although I'd have thought the 30% Republican base would have turned out to get Obama out of the White House.

As for Sanders, I've heard it said that his socialist utopia would be funded with a NINETY-FIVE PERCENT tax rate which, of course, is not sustainable. These details would destroy him in a general presidential campaign.

Honestly, I think 95% taxation is fearmongering. From what I can see Sanders is looking towards a European-style socialism, which would certainly see taxation rise but it would most likely affect things like sales taxes rather than ramming the highest rate of income tax quite so high. Back in the 70s when the UK had a hard-left Labour government that figured the way to raise money was, in the words of Denis Skinner, "tax the rich until the pips squeak" it didn't work out so well. And in this age where a company can cross borders with nothing more than a stroke of a pen punitive levels of taxation aren't a viable option however left-leaning a candidate may be.

As I'm sure you know a company can move its headquarters with little more than form-filling. The very wealthy can move abroad easily enough and can shelter their wealth within corporations. The middle classes, whose wealth is largely made up of things like their physical property and maybe a modest savings account, are a soft target because they can't move so easily. Purchases are a soft target for higher taxes because everybody buys stuff sooner or later, and if you put taxes on food products you're all but guaranteed that 99% of people will pay more in tax (of course there are always the totally self-sufficient types who only eat what they grow, but you'll never do much to reach them).

Regarding healthcare, as Trump has said, he would "get rid of the lines." By this, he means state borders. He would erase the current rules that prohibit customers from seeking health policies from companies outside the borders (the "lines") of their own state. When this rule is erased, customers would be able to seek policies from companies in ANY state. It would open things up for customers to seek policies from companies all across the nation. It would open up the good ol' American spirit of competition -- which would probably lower the coverage costs by a dramatic amount. The companies would also have to accept all pre-existing conditions, which is one of the few virtues of ObamaCare.

One of the weird things I find out what is called health insurance in the US is that it isn't really insurance. We wouldn't expect our car insurance to pay out if we need new tires or an oil change, and yet we expect health insurance to pay for routine checkups and day-to-day costs of healthcare. What I'd really like to see is a system where you can get a basic policy that covers the bankruptcy-level costs of major treatment but doesn't constantly fiddle about covering the cost of a routine checkup. What Obamacare seems to have done as far as I can see is cause premiums to double in three years and then hand out money in the form of tax credits to bring the premiums down again but only for some people. Back in 2013 I got a quote for $300/month for a policy that had a $5000 deductible; in 2016 a comparable policy costs a little over $600/month.

If insurance can be taken out of the market in basic stuff like going for an annual checkup and low-level prescriptions it makes the cost cheaper for everyone. I still remember the time I needed a prescription when visiting the US - the pharmacist told me it would be $75 and asked what insurance I had. When I told her I was paying cash she grimaced, went back to her terminal and then said it would be more like $35. So effectively the cost of dealing with the insurance company more than doubled the price of the prescription. If anything needs addressing that would be a good place to start.

If there are federal prohibitions on insurance companies offering their products across state lines it would make sense to eliminate them.

As for Hillary? She is now infamously known to have allowed our people in Benghazi to be sacrificed on behalf of her and Obama's careers. She then began using that lie about an equally infamous -- and unseen -- video as the reason for the attacks -- when she knew it was a pre-planned terrorist attack. Then she repeated those lies to the faces of the grieving family members as they stood by the coffins. Her and Bill are now regularly confronted over this by angry voters. Hillary, by the last count, also had over 2,000 top secret security files on her private server -- catching her him in yet another lie as she has continued to insist that she never had any sensitive material on her server. This is a career criminal and time may be catching up to her.

The trouble with this twofold - firstly as you mentioned above there are the 30% of voters who would vote for a turnip if it had the Democrat colors on it, so she is assured of a good chunk of the vote regardless. And with the whole Benghazi thing, all the news reports I've seen on it are so partisan it's not funny. When you've got the media split between baying for her blood and insisting that multiple hearings have cleared her, it looks like nothing more than a partisan debate where one side is mudslinging and the other side refuses to hear anything bad about their candidate.

It concerns me that so many serious questions seem to relentlessly surround Hillary. Even if I got a vote in the election I wouldn't vote for her but even trying to take an objective look at things it seems that she's barely out of the news before she's in the news again for another concern. Truth be told I'd have thought that the presence of a single document classified Top Secret or higher on her personal (presumably insecure) server should render her unfit for high office let alone the presidency. But again the chances are the Republican fanboys won't vote for her anyway and the Democrat fanboys will just regard it as yet another Republican smear and continue to support her.
 

tango

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Looking at the results of "Super Tuesday" it seems that Democrat voters don't regard Hillary as unelectable.
 

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I find this interesting! Which states have really low healthcare options, do you know?

Probably none of them do at this time, Lamm. All the states are prohibited from crossing any state line to seek insurance policies, thus the premiums are higher in every state.

The trick is that this would probably change dramatically once people are allowed to seek policies from companies across the USA. The competition involved would, as it usually does, result in much lower prices, better coverage, etc.
 

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Looking at the results of "Super Tuesday" it seems that Democrat voters don't regard Hillary as unelectable.

Actually it seems that they do regard her as unelectable. Have you heard discussions about the Democrat voter turnout? This campaign has seen historically LOW turnouts as voters are uninspired by both Hillary and Sanders.

At the same time, the Repub voter turnouts have been higher than ever seen before.

And many, who might think she IS electable, are not inspired at having a career criminal moving back into the white house. There probably WILL be a criminal referral on her from the FBI to the justice department. At that juncture, whether she is indicted -- or if Obama chooses to give her a pass -- it would most likely end her candidacy.

This is why the Demo bigwigs are pulling their hair out -- because it will soon be beyond the legal dates when new names can be added to the election ballots and they would be stuck with a 74 year-old socialist in Sanders. This could very well be turning into one of those "throwaway" election years for the Dems in which they have little chance of victory.
 

psalms 91

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The Republicans are the ones tearing their hair out as Trump is a con man and a bit of a clown
 

MoreCoffee

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The Republicans are the ones tearing their hair out as Trump is a con man and a bit of a clown

I am persuaded that being a republican or a democrat is - to a degree - a compromise with worldliness that may lead to dissensions and quarrels among the brethren therefore I believe it is better to choose who you want to vote for on the basis of their character and policies and forget the party politics and if that is too hard or if no suitable candidate is available in your locale then do not vote.
 

psalms 91

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I am persuaded that being a republican or a democrat is - to a degree - a compromise with worldliness that may lead to dissensions and quarrels among the brethren therefore I believe it is better to choose who you want to vote for on the basis of their character and policies and forget the party politics and if that is too hard or if no suitable candidate is available in your locale then do not vote.
I will always vote as it is a duty as a citizen but as for the Presidential canidates there really is noone that I like on either side, my vote will be based on who will do the least damage
 

tango

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Actually it seems that they do regard her as unelectable. Have you heard discussions about the Democrat voter turnout? This campaign has seen historically LOW turnouts as voters are uninspired by both Hillary and Sanders.

At the same time, the Repub voter turnouts have been higher than ever seen before.

And many, who might think she IS electable, are not inspired at having a career criminal moving back into the white house. There probably WILL be a criminal referral on her from the FBI to the justice department. At that juncture, whether she is indicted -- or if Obama chooses to give her a pass -- it would most likely end her candidacy.

This is why the Demo bigwigs are pulling their hair out -- because it will soon be beyond the legal dates when new names can be added to the election ballots and they would be stuck with a 74 year-old socialist in Sanders. This could very well be turning into one of those "throwaway" election years for the Dems in which they have little chance of victory.

I wonder how many people would vote D for no reason other than to keep Trump out, and how many people would vote R just to keep Hillary out.

Truth be told your figures earlier (that I haven't checked, but don't see any specific reason to doubt) about more or less 30% of voters being tribal one way and 30% being tribal the other way, pretty much means that the people waving banners for their chosen candidate at political rallies don't count because ultimately they would vote for whoever their party selected. It's quite remarkable to think that neither candidate really needs to bother reaching out to their own voters - if they can persuade enough of the undecided folks to join they don't need to draw a single person out of the other camp.
 

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I wonder how many people would vote D for no reason other than to keep Trump out, and how many people would vote R just to keep Hillary out.

Truth be told your figures earlier (that I haven't checked, but don't see any specific reason to doubt) about more or less 30% of voters being tribal one way and 30% being tribal the other way, pretty much means that the people waving banners for their chosen candidate at political rallies don't count because ultimately they would vote for whoever their party selected. It's quite remarkable to think that neither candidate really needs to bother reaching out to their own voters - if they can persuade enough of the undecided folks to join they don't need to draw a single person out of the other camp.

Yup, you are exactly right. The approximate 30% of hardcore voters in each party will vote for anyone as long as they are in their party. So talking with them is like preaching to the choir.
 

tango

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Yup, you are exactly right. The approximate 30% of hardcore voters in each party will vote for anyone as long as they are in their party. So talking with them is like preaching to the choir.

I must admit I shudder to think of the outcome if we do end up with it being Trump vs Hillary.

I personally know people who consider themselves hardcore Republicans who voted for Obama in preference to McCain and Romney. I know people who consider themselves Democrat who couldn't even consider voting for Hillary but would struggle to vote for Trump even if it did mean helping keep her out of the White House.

Much as the thought of a Trump presidency scares me, the thought of Hillary in the White House terrifies me.
 

Lamb

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I must admit I shudder to think of the outcome if we do end up with it being Trump vs Hillary.

I personally know people who consider themselves hardcore Republicans who voted for Obama in preference to McCain and Romney. I know people who consider themselves Democrat who couldn't even consider voting for Hillary but would struggle to vote for Trump even if it did mean helping keep her out of the White House.

Much as the thought of a Trump presidency scares me, the thought of Hillary in the White House terrifies me.

I'm reading that a lot of people DO think it will come down to Trump v Hillary. I guess in that situation you need to think about the people underneath then and what they would do. Can we trust either of these two as President to do what they say?
 

psalms 91

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I'm reading that a lot of people DO think it will come down to Trump v Hillary. I guess in that situation you need to think about the people underneath then and what they would do. Can we trust either of these two as President to do what they say?
No
 

Josiah

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IMO, it seems Hilary just about has this wrapped up.

I think it's still unclear in the GOP. Trump still is the leader and certainly COULD get the nomination. My guy (Rubio) seems to be fading fast, and Cruz is gaining steam.

Frankly, I don't respect or trust Trump - and I have no intention of voting for him. I can't vote for Hilary because of her strong pro-abortion stance (and I don't agree with her on a lot of other things). So, in that case, I'd be looking for some third-party candidate or simply not vote the top of the ticket.

I continue to be STUMPED as to why Trump is getting this support.....



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- Josiah
 

MoreCoffee

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It's looking more and more like republican voters will have Donald Trump as their party's candidate for the presidency. I imagine it must feel a little like being asked to vote for a local rich man who is notorious from being kind of crazy and for being a misanthrope.
 

Josiah

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It's looking more and more like republican voters will have Donald Trump as their party's candidate for the presidency. I imagine it must feel a little like being asked to vote for a local rich man who is notorious from being kind of crazy and for being a misanthrope.


Coffee, PART of the problem is that Republicans do not exclusively pick their own candidates anymore (same for Democrats, to a lesser degree). More and more states have "open primaries" which means ANYONE can vote on EITHER side. For reasons that mystify me, a lot of Democrats have been voting on the Republican side to support Trump. Its shown in part by the record high numbers voting on the Republican side - and record low numbers on the Democrat side this year. Many Democrats conclude the Hilary WILL win - and so their vote on the Democrat side doesn't matter, but it could make a difference on the GOP side. SOME are no doubt voting for Trump for the same mystifying reason that some Republicans are..... Trump is the one who motivates them to to cast their votes on the GOP side instead, and SOME are probably voting for Trump because he's seen as the easiest for Hilary to beat. But in those states where ONLY Republicans can vote for the Republican candidate, Trump has generally lost - Cruz coming on top (and in one case, Rubio). This "open primary" concept IMO has thrown a wrench into things. In California, for example, where the GOP is small, if only a small number of Democrats vote on the Republcian side (as they will if California is still in play for the GOP but not for the Democrats), THEY will actually determine the winner of the CA vote (which is winner take all).



.
 

MoreCoffee

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Coffee, PART of the problem is that Republicans do not exclusively pick their own candidates anymore (same for Democrats, to a lesser degree). More and more states have "open primaries" which means ANYONE can vote on EITHER side. For reasons that mystify me, a lot of Democrats have been voting on the Republican side to support Trump. Its shown in part by the record high numbers voting on the Republican side - and record low numbers on the Democrat side this year. Many Democrats conclude the Hilary WILL win - and so their vote on the Democrat side doesn't matter, but it could make a difference on the GOP side. SOME are no doubt voting for Trump for the same mystifying reason that some Republicans are..... Trump is the one who motivates them to to cast their votes on the GOP side instead, and SOME are probably voting for Trump because he's seen as the easiest for Hilary to beat. But in those states where ONLY Republicans can vote for the Republican candidate, Trump has generally lost - Cruz coming on top (and in one case, Rubio). This "open primary" concept IMO has thrown a wrench into things. In California, for example, where the GOP is small, if only a small number of Democrats vote on the Republcian side (as they will if California is still in play for the GOP but not for the Democrats), THEY will actually determine the winner of the CA vote (which is winner take all).

Yet Donald Trump almost certainly will be the Republican candidate for the presidency.

In Australia back in September 2015 the governing parties threw out Tony Abbot as Prime Minister and replaced him with Malcolm Turnbull. When that happened the Northern Territory's main newspaper headlined the swap as RICH DUDE BECOMES PM which is amusing and was widely reported in the media. The trouble is that our PM is a rich dude and despite being glib and smooth talking he's slowly come unstuck until now he is beginning to look just like the man he replaced and that can't be good for the governing parties (it is parties (plural) because the Liberal Party of Australia is in coalition with the National Party of Australia to form government; they have a large majority in the house but they do not have a majority in the senate so they've had trouble with some of their legislation being unable to get through the senate). Australia also has a minor party named after its founder (owner would be more accurate) Clive Palmer who is a rich dude who wants to sway government into backing his privately own nickel smelter and other privately own companies. It really angers voters when politicians such as Clive Palmer seek government guarantees for their personally owned (not even on the stock exchange) companies. Naturally the governments (both national and state) have refused to comply with his wishes and in retaliation he refuses to support government legislation in the federal parliament even though some of the legislation is clearly to the benefit of his constituents. So I say beware of rich men trying to gain high office. The USA political system already appears to be bought and sold by rich men and their lobbyists I wonder what Trump would do to make it worse ...
 
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