Apocrypha?

[sunshinemama91]

Yall are authoring confusion and I think missing the whole point of the faith. This isn't a place to build faith currently, it's a place to destroy it. Lanta.

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[Andrew]

Yall are authoring confusion and I think missing the whole point of the faith. This isn't a place to build faith currently, it's a place to destroy it. Lanta.

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We aren't arguing we are just having a fruitful debate about the Apocrypha.. no body is questioning another's faith nor are we devaluing faith in any sense
I personally grew up with the understanding that the Apocrypha was scripture and I'm only defending my view now after digging deep into what early Christians believed, some may think me as silly but they could say the same to all the greek speaking Jews and gentile converts who considered these books as part of the OT without prejudice some 2000 odd years ago.. we each have our own opinion on the subject but we are by no means attacking each others faith.. The NT scripture holds the saving Gospel and we aren't subjecting it to ridicule by any means nor are we rejecting the OT scriptures as uninspired

 

[sunshinemama91]

We aren't arguing we are just having a fruitful debate about the Apocrypha.. no body is questioning another's faith nor are we devaluing faith in any sense
I personally grew up with the understanding that the Apocrypha was scripture and I'm only defending my view now after digging deep into what early Christians believed, some may think me as silly but they could say the same to all the greek speaking Jews and gentile converts who considered these books as part of the OT without prejudice some 2000 odd years ago.. we each have our own opinion on the subject but we are by no means attacking each others faith.. The NT scripture holds the saving Gospel and we aren't subjecting it to ridicule by any means nor are we rejecting the OT scriptures as uninspired

No, I see its not devaluing faith, but coming in here as an earlier believer founded on basically the Gospel alone in a protestant faith and a minimal understanding of God's Word... this kind of stuff only confuses and makes faith harder. I probably shouldn't even be here.

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[sunshinemama91]

This is more like a pastoral/theological debate forum than a learning how to Christian and gain solid information to help grow a solid foundation kind of forum. How can a newer Christian discern what is true with so much jumbled mixed information? How relevant is it for salvation? If I get the answer wrong, am I hell bound?

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[Lamb]

This is more like a pastoral/theological debate forum than a learning how to Christian and gain solid information to help grow a solid foundation kind of forum. How can a newer Christian discern what is true with so much jumbled mixed information? How relevant is it for salvation? If I get the answer wrong, am I hell bound?

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Even though this goes off topic, I feel it's important. It's great you want to learn more about faith and grow. Salvation is by grace through faith (it's not the amount of faith but the fact that you have it) and you cannot merit it in any way.

You won't be hellbound if you believe the Apocrypha is canon and you find out later it isn't. What makes one bound for hell is rejection of the Savior and the forgiveness of sins He won for you at the cross.

 

[sunshinemama91]

Even though this goes off topic, I feel it's important. It's great you want to learn more about faith and grow. Salvation is by grace through faith (it's not the amount of faith but the fact that you have it) and you cannot merit it in any way.

You won't be hellbound if you believe the Apocrypha is canon and you find out later it isn't. What makes one bound for hell is rejection of the Savior and the forgiveness of sins He won for you at the cross.

Okay, that is comforting! So basically the finer details aren't THAT important and if my theology isn't Johnny on the spot I'm not doomed

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[Andrew]

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[Albion]

Yall are authoring confusion and I think missing the whole point of the faith. This isn't a place to build faith currently, it's a place to destroy it. Lanta.

I hear you, and I am sorry that you were introduced to this basically worthless thread that most of us have been trying for some time to wrap up and be done with. I do believe that other ones will be of more value to you and I also hope you will author a few of them yourself.

So basically the finer details aren't THAT important and if my theology isn't Johnny on the spot I'm not doomed

That's right. And as for the Apocrypha, it isn't of much value to anyone anyway, whether it is added to Bible editions or omitted.

 

[Andrew]

I hear you, and I am sorry that you were introduced to this basically worthless thread that most of us have been trying for some time to wrap up and be done with. I do believe that other ones will be of more value to you and I also hope you will author a few of them yourself.


That's right. And as for the Apocrypha, it isn't of much value to anyone anyway, whether it is added to Bible editions or omitted.

Oh come on! It's not thaaaat bad

 

[Lamb]

Okay, that is comforting! So basically the finer details aren't THAT important and if my theology isn't Johnny on the spot I'm not doomed

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I don't think any one of us has perfect doctrine since our faith is not yet perfected. We're all growing together and that means constantly learning as the Spirit leads us by His Word.

 

[NathanH83]

I hear you, and I am sorry that you were introduced to this basically worthless thread that most of us have been trying for some time to wrap up and be done with. I do believe that other ones will be of more value to you and I also hope you will author a few of them yourself.


That's right. And as for the Apocrypha, it isn't of much value to anyone anyway, whether it is added to Bible editions or omitted.

The Word of God isn’t valuable to you?

 

[Lamb]

The Word of God isn’t valuable to you?

Again I'm asking which books are you thinking are part of the Apocrypha? You didn't answer and there are many to choose from. Do you feel ALL of them are God's Word? Do you know some of them were used to propagate false views?

 

[Albion]

Oh come on! It's not thaaaat bad

All right, my friend, I appreciate the levity. But suppose for the sake of the thread, we were to take the comment seriously; can you, tell us which doctrines depend upon some passage in the Apocrypha?

That would seem to be relevant, if the Apocrypha were so important as has been claimed. And how do you account for the fact that neither Catholicism nor Protestantism considers all of the Apocryphal books to be inspired in the first place!

 

[NathanH83]

Again I'm asking which books are you thinking are part of the Apocrypha? You didn't answer and there are many to choose from. Do you feel ALL of them are God's Word? Do you know some of them were used to propagate false views?

The early church declared that 1 and 2 Maccabees are the Word of God. But to you, they’re not valuable?

 

[Albion]

The early church declared that 1 and 2 Maccabees are the Word of God. But to you, they’re not valuable?

The early church did not declare such a thing. And being "valuable" (to use your word) is not the same as being divinely inspired.

Finally, suggesting that 1 and 2 Maccabees belong in the Bible, as you did, leaves only about 13 books that you cannot vouch for! That doesn't make much of a case for "the Apocrypha" deserving to be included in the Bible.







.

 

[NathanH83]

All right, my friend, I appreciate the levity. But suppose for the sake of the thread, we were to take the comment seriously; can you, tell us which doctrines depend upon some passage in the Apocrypha?

That would seem to be relevant, if the Apocrypha were so important as has been claimed. And how do you account for the fact that neither Catholicism nor Protestantism considers all of the Apocryphal books to be inspired in the first place!

Almost the whole entire chapter of Daniel 8 is fulfilled in Maccabees. Almost the whole entire chapter of Daniel 11 is fulfilled in Maccabees. The holiday Jesus celebrated in John 10:22 commemorated the Maccabees. Paul mentioned the events in Maccabees in Hebrews 11:35.

Tell me how it’s not valuable again?

 

[NathanH83]

The early church did not declare such a thing.

Yes, they did.
Council of Rome, 382 AD.
Council of Hippo, 393 AD.
Council of Carthage 397 AD.

Learn your history.

 

[Albion]

Almost the whole entire chapter of Daniel 8 is fulfilled in Maccabees. Almost the whole entire chapter of Daniel 11 is fulfilled in Maccabees. The holiday Jesus celebrated in John 10:22 commemorated the Maccabees. Paul mentioned the events in Maccabees in Hebrews 11:35.

Tell me how it’s not valuable again?

I am wondering if there is some technical problem here. I never said that any such books are not valuable. I said they are not inspired. That is the only basis on which any writing belongs in the Bible.

And I also believe that Lammchen never wrote that they are without value.

 

[Albion]

Yes, they did.
Council of Rome, 382 AD.
Council of Hippo, 393 AD.
Council of Carthage 397 AD.

Learn your history.

Learn your own. All of the books of the Apocrypha that were cleared for inclusion with the OT and NT were included PROVISIONALLY...and then both the Roman Catholic and Protestant churches removed some or all of them later on. All we are debating here and now is what kind of Bible a couple of people online want to write for themselves.







.

 

[NathanH83]

I am wondering if there is some technical problem here. I never said that any such books are not valuable. I said they are not inspired. That is the only basis on which any writing belongs in the Bible.

And I also believe that Lammchen never wrote that they are without value.

You said they’re not important.