An Atheists works are not good

[Josiah]

Athesists say there is NO GOD. They do not believe. Thus, they damn themselves.

Yup.


Atheism IS a religion..... they have just as strong of a position as theists....

THEISM is the position that the SUPERnatural exists, and this is framed as "the divine." When an "A" is placed in front of a position, it negates it and takes the OPPOSITE position, so an A-Theist is one who believes there is no supernatural. Both take a bold stand on the issue (just opposite ones) and both are equally religious positions.

It is at times confused with an entirely, completely DIFFERENT position. Some Atheist themselves cause this since they don't want to defend their denial and so call themselves something they aren't. GNOSIS = knowledge, awareness. Again, put an "A" in front of it as you have A-Gnostic. Agnostics hold that there is insufficient reason to accept OR deny the supernatural.... NEITHER atheism or theism has an adequate foundation or basis to accept such. They EQUALLY reject BOTH stances. Most will hold both are equally POSSIBLE but both are equally unsubstantiated.

Theists and Atheists EQUALLY hold bold positions regarding the supernatural (just opposite ones) and are equally religions. Agnostic is the neutral position - it EQUALLY holds that both are possible and EQUALLY holds that both are insufficiently substantiated.


The Bible teaches that we are saved via Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide. Since the Atheist and the Agnostic (by definition) lack that, they thus lack salvation. Since Christianity consists of only about 1/3 of Theists, most Theists are lacking salvation, too (it's not acceptance of the supernatural that saves but rather faith in Christ as the Savior that does).


To the issue: No, FROM GOD'S PERSPECTIVE, an unbeliever cannot do good works since without taith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God. But of course, FROM MAN'S PERSPECTIVE, not only can an unbeliever do good but many of them do. Helping the little ole lady cross the street is a blessing TO HER (and that matters) but it's a good work TO GOD only when it's done via faith.




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[Michael]

How far back?

I’d like to see the churches go back to the very beginning…

“God saw that the light was good, and God separated the light from the darkness.” - Gen 1:4

This represents much more than just physical light, especially when we realize that the sun, moon & stars had not yet been created. God is ultimately speaking of separating the good from the evil.


And it was back at the beginning that the promise of the Messiah came -
“So the Lord God said to the serpent:
“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”
- Gen 3:14-15

God spoke concerning His Elect then; He was addressing His Elect throughout the Old and New Testaments; and He is speaking to His Elect today, not to the masses in the world who are “eagerly waiting for the revealing of the sons of God.” No one is waiting for “Christians” who are still untransformed carnal beings to “tell them about Jesus.”
There are more “unbelievers” in the church than “atheists” in the world. God is judging His House now, not the world. A True “believer” is one who proves themselves a “believer” by their obedience and behavior, regardless of what man-made religion would have us think.

And regardless of what so many “preach” today, God is far more concerned about what those in the churches are doing in private than He is with those He hasn’t called to “come after” His Son.

Are we hearing the main message of Jesus, John, the Apostles and Prophets in our assemblies today?
The message of Repentance.
An actual turning away from sin, and walking in obedience and righteousness, being truly transformed that we may be found worthy to receive the promises of an Eternal Priesthood and union with Christ and God.
This is what Paul taught. As the Apostle said to the saints in Ephesus, and as he did throughout his epistles - “I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God.” – Acts 20:27

And again, the main message of God’s whole counsel is Repentance. God rebukes those behind the pulpits for “preaching” a partial message proclaiming His love and mercy without teaching His requirements and conditions. Those IN the churches face far greater danger and judgment (for their unbelief) than the “atheist” who does good works (which God will honor in that Day).

“if they had stood in My counsel,
And had caused My people to hear My words,
Then they would have turned them from their evil way
And from the evil of their doings.”
– Jer 23:22

Are those in the pews hearing the Truth that we must separate ourselves from darkness if we would come into the Light? Again, there is more darkness in the church, in God’s eyes, than there is in the world. Remember, we are only judged by the light that we have been given by God. When God reveals the Truth of Jesus’ Parable of the Sheep and Goats, it truly helps us understand His great plan and purpose for Creation. So many that the “religious” of today would cast into eternal torment, will be brought into the Kingdom, and some who had a name in the churches will be cast into “outer darkness” in that Day.

And No, I am not preaching “Universalism.” I am preaching Bible.

Indeed, let us shed the plethora of man-made traditions and fables that have crept into our churches, and return to the “ancient paths” that God has laid, that we might truly come to know Him and follow His Firstborn Son into the fullness of His calling to His Seed.

Amen

 

[Particular]

Sad how many little children and Special Needs folk and people who never heard of Jesus, are condemned by self proclaimed "Christians."

Man, our assemblies today are in dire need of a Back-to-the-Bible Revival.

Back to the Bible isn't a bad organization. You should listen to them.
https://www.backtothebible.org/

As to people whom God has chosen to give special needs, I trust God graciously sees them and knows the plans he has for them.
As for people who have never heard the gospel, Paul tells us that God gives them observation skills to know He exists. They are condemned by their sin (as we all are). They have no excuse (as none of us do).
However, we have a responsibility to go to the uttermost parts of the earth and share the gospel.
I have friends at Wycliffe Bible Translators who spent the last 30 years in translation for the Mato people. What a glorious event when they received the good news in their own language.
https://youtu.be/ThS_lAQUBIc

 

[Lamb]

Does man deserve eternal damnation because of his condition of sin?

Those who realize the severity of sin and how God cannot accept sin will respond YES. Those who think that in some way that man is inherently good and can earn their way back into God's graces will say NO.

Original sin says
1. In its ordinary meaning this term does not refer to the origin of sin but to the guilt of Adam's sin imputed to his offspring (hereditary guilt, Ro 5:12–19; Eph 2:3; cf. FC SD I 9) and the corruption of man's nature that occurred when sin entered and which inheres in the human will and inclinations. Cf. Gn 5:3; 6:5; 8:21; Jb 15:14; Ps 51:5; Jn 3:6; Ro 14:23. Original sin is not an activity but a quality, a state, an inherent condition. It exists, though there be no conscious, voluntary act of internal or external powers, of mind or body. It is “the chief sin, a root and fountainhead of all actual sins”.

Is God just? Are we not so deeply affected by sin that we carry the guilt and need redemption? Jesus is the only way of having that Not Guilty verdict placed upon us "by grace through faith, not by works." John 3:18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Do Atheists have the taint of sin? Yes.

Do they deserve eternal damnation since they have this guilt? Yes.

Without faith in the Savior will they damn themselves? Yes.

 

[Arsenios]

How far back?

It had better be 2000 years, and the unbroken Communion of the historical Church...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

God condemns those who don't believe. Is He smug?

God did not come into His Creation to condemn the world...

But instead to Call sinners to repentance...

You would do better to proclaim your forgiveness of those who sin against you...

Rather than proclaiming your faith in God's condemnation of sinners...

Arsenios

 

[Lamb]

God did not come into His Creation to condemn the world...

But instead to Call sinners to repentance...

You would do better to proclaim your forgiveness of those who sin against you...

Rather than proclaiming your faith in God's condemnation of sinners...

Arsenios

John 3:18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.



All the more reason to keep proclaiming the truth of the Gospel that we will have eternal life by believing in the Son and His forgiveness, not by our works.

 

[Josiah]

John 3:18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.



All the more reason to keep proclaiming the truth of the Gospel that we will have eternal life by believing in the Son and His forgiveness, not by our works.

INCLUDING the death atheist's "good work" of looking to God and crying out in repentance that he has offended the divine wisdom of God (which he rejects even exists and denies any such wisdom exists). If the dead can rise to life by repenting, then the reason the dead live is that the dead performed a good work (that only the living can do) - thus, no grace is needed, no mercy is needed, no Holy Spirit is needed, no Cross is needed, no Incarnation or Resurrection is needed, no Savior is needed. And Christianity is one big LIE. Each dead, atheistic, enemy of God "saves" HIMSELF by doing something (in this case, repenting to a God he repudiates, confessing he violates a wisdom he rejects).


A dead, atheistic, enemy of God cannot do good works (including repentance).... among other reasons, because it is impossible to please God without faith (I read that in a good book once). Actually, dead people can't do a whole lot period.

 

[Arsenios]

The Gospel: We will have eternal life by believing in the Son and His forgiveness, not by our works.

From the first three Gospels...

I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His Name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Repentance is the prerequisite to Salvation BY Christ...

For this cause He gave us His Faith which we are to obey in denial of self...

And should we fall away, we are fit only for burning...

Smug self-assurance of one's own Salvation and...

Pointing at sinners in smug satisfaction that they will burn in hell for eternity...

Is profoundly not Christian...

It is utterly demonic...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Actually, dead people can't do a whole lot period.

All they can do is hear God's Call to Repentance and begin their life therein...

If they do so, they are then Baptized INTO Christ, being therein conjoined with Him in Life...

Even the non-Christian Jews and Pagans could hear, believe and obey the Gospel...

Those who did so were Baptized into Christ and attained Life Eternal...

Those who did not were not...


Arsenios

 

[Lamb]

Who gives life? Not the Atheist. He is dead in his sins.

Works won't give an Atheist life. Only the Gospel can do that and that is by believing in Jesus the Savior who died for the forgiveness of sins.

God gives life by turning that Atheist toward Him, gifting him with faith to believe...that's repentance, turning away from sin toward believing in God for eternal life. An Atheist won't do that. God does that according to His will.

 

[Lamb]

From the first three Gospels...

I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His Name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Repentance is the prerequisite to Salvation BY Christ...

For this cause He gave us His Faith which we are to obey in denial of self...

And should we fall away, we are fit only for burning...

Smug self-assurance of one's own Salvation and...

Pointing at sinners in smug satisfaction that they will burn in hell for eternity...

Is profoundly not Christian...

It is utterly demonic...


Arsenios

Trusting in God for eternal life and knowing He keeps His promises is NOT demonic. Repent.

 

[Michael]

Does man deserve eternal damnation because of his condition of sin?

Those who realize the severity of sin and how God cannot accept sin will respond YES. Those who think that in some way that man is inherently good and can earn their way back into God's graces will say NO.

Original sin says
1. In its ordinary meaning this term does not refer to the origin of sin but to the guilt of Adam's sin imputed to his offspring (hereditary guilt, Ro 5:12–19; Eph 2:3; cf. FC SD I 9) and the corruption of man's nature that occurred when sin entered and which inheres in the human will and inclinations. Cf. Gn 5:3; 6:5; 8:21; Jb 15:14; Ps 51:5; Jn 3:6; Ro 14:23. Original sin is not an activity but a quality, a state, an inherent condition. It exists, though there be no conscious, voluntary act of internal or external powers, of mind or body. It is “the chief sin, a root and fountainhead of all actual sins”.

Is God just? Are we not so deeply affected by sin that we carry the guilt and need redemption? Jesus is the only way of having that Not Guilty verdict placed upon us "by grace through faith, not by works." John 3:18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Do Atheists have the taint of sin? Yes.

Do they deserve eternal damnation since they have this guilt? Yes.

Without faith in the Savior will they damn themselves? Yes.

If one who has "called upon the Name of the Lord", received "forgiveness", and been "saved", yet continues to live "according to the flesh" assuming somehow that his present and future sins are automatically forgiven... what does this one deserve?


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[Lamb]

If one who has "called upon the Name of the Lord", received "forgiveness", and been "saved", yet continues to live "according to the flesh" assuming somehow that his present and future sins are automatically forgiven... what does this one deserve?


.

If he is in despair over his sin then someone should tell him the Gospel, right?

If he is clinging to his sin and denies it's sin then someone should tell him the Law, right?

That is your answer. You need to properly distinguish between when Gospel and Law are to be preached.

 

[Michael]

If he is in despair over his sin then someone should tell him the Gospel, right?

If he is clinging to his sin and denies it's sin then someone should tell him the Law, right?

That is your answer. You need to properly distinguish between when Gospel and Law are to be preached.

You realize, I'm sure, there is a great difference between the "Law of Moses" and the "Law of the Spirit of Life" which is Eternal.
Personally, I teach the same Law that Jesus taught, which is an integral, inseparable part of the Gospel.

What is often preached as the "Gospel" in most churches today is not the "Gospel" that was revealed by God through Jesus, the Apostles, the Prophets and even Moses.
Most church-goers now hear only a sliver of the Gospel. To truly "believe" we must accept ALL that Jesus taught, including the requirements of Repentance (a turning away for sin), and walk Worthy of Him.

 

[Lamb]

You realize, I'm sure, there is a great difference between the "Law of Moses" and the "Law of the Spirit of Life" which is Eternal.
Personally, I teach the same Law that Jesus taught, which is an integral, inseparable part of the Gospel.

What is often preached as the "Gospel" in most churches today is not the "Gospel" that was revealed by God through Jesus, the Apostles, the Prophets and even Moses.
Most church-goers now hear only a sliver of the Gospel. To truly "believe" we must accept ALL that Jesus taught, including the requirements of Repentance (a turning away for sin), and walk Worthy of Him.

God's Holy Law is still LAW. The Law cannot bring you to redemption, only the Redeemer (Jesus the Christ) can reconcile you with God. I know you believe that you can work your way to eternity instead of trusting in Jesus as the path (because you've said so repeatedly on here) but that's not the Gospel. Quit kicking Jesus to the curb.

 

[Michael]

God's Holy Law is still LAW. The Law cannot bring you to redemption, only the Redeemer (Jesus the Christ) can reconcile you with God. I know you believe that you can work your way to eternity instead of trusting in Jesus as the path (because you've said so repeatedly on here) but that's not the Gospel. Quit kicking Jesus to the curb.

Oh, dear one, you quite misunderstand me, just as so many misunderstood Jesus and His Apostles.

Of course Jesus is our Redemption. He alone has saved us from bondage to sin, and has set our feet on the path, the Way that leads to holiness. And God will "give His Holy Spirit to those who obey Him"; and "He will guide us into all Truth and bring to remembrance ALL that Jesus taught", including His requirements for those who will "come after" Him.

May we be counted among those who "repent", "deny ourselves, pick up our cross daily and follow Him"; who "do the things He said", and be "worthy" of Him. (Matt 4:17, Luke 9:23, Luke 6:46, Matt 10:37-38)

This I will say again and again, as it is the very Word of Jesus!

I find it almost fascinating that so many in the churches simply cannot accept what Jesus said in these, and hundreds of other, passages. The belief that a couple other verses taken out of context somehow cancel out most of what Jesus taught is just a wonder to me. If Jesus had not told us this would happen, I suppose I'd be in utter shock.

"Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many." - Matt 24:4-5

May each of us be among those who "strive to enter the rest of God" and "walk in the Light", and "abide in His word", proving we are His "disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the Truth, and the Truth shall make you free.”

Amen.

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[Lamb]

Oh, dear one, you quite misunderstand me, just as so many misunderstood Jesus and His Apostles.

Of course Jesus is our Redemption. He alone has saved us from bondage to sin, and has set our feet on the path, the Way that leads to holiness. And God will "give His Holy Spirit to those who obey Him"; and "He will guide us into all Truth and bring to remembrance ALL that Jesus taught", including His requirements for those who will "come after" Him.

May we be counted among those who "repent", "deny ourselves, pick up our cross daily and follow Him"; who "do the things He said", and be "worthy" of Him. (Matt 4:17, Luke 9:23, Luke 6:46, Matt 10:37-38)

This I will say again and again, as it is the very Word of Jesus!

I find it almost fascinating that so many in the churches simply cannot accept what Jesus said in these, and hundreds of other, passages. The belief that a couple other verses taken out of context somehow cancel out most of what Jesus taught is just a wonder to me. If Jesus had not told us this would happen, I suppose I'd be in utter shock.

"Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many." - Matt 24:4-5

May each of us be among those who "strive to enter the rest of God" and "walk in the Light", and "abide in His word", proving we are His "disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the Truth, and the Truth shall make you free.”

Amen.

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Sin gets in the way of all mankind. ONLY Jesus can redeem us so, no, I don't misunderstand you at all. You don't fully want to trust that Jesus has redeemed you of sin and eternal hell. See my new thread on What does Jesus redeem you from? If Jesus isn't redeeming you from hell then what is He redeeming you from?

 

[Michael]

Sin gets in the way of all mankind. ONLY Jesus can redeem us so, no, I don't misunderstand you at all. You don't fully want to trust that Jesus has redeemed you of sin and eternal hell. See my new thread on What does Jesus redeem you from? If Jesus isn't redeeming you from hell then what is He redeeming you from?

It appears you may be confusing "redemption" with being "saved." These are closely related, but are not synonymous. We can look at that perhaps later.

But first... Did you know that neither Paul or John in any of their writings ever mention the word "hell"? Not even a single time. If one of the main reasons Jesus had come was to save us from "hell" we'd suppose that both Paul and John would have mentioned it quite often, but they did not. Ever. The word doesn't appear a single time in the Book of Acts either. Truthfully, despite modern popular theology, that message is not part of the Gospel. Jesus mentioned it a couple times, but never something that we are to fear. God is the only One we are to fear.

Now indeed, Jesus came to ultimately redeem us from sin; and He gives us the opportunity to be made new. And begins just as it began with Israel being "saved" from Egypt, by the Blood of Lamb and removing of "leaven" from our lives (which symbolizes Repentance). He is bringing the fullness of Redemption to those who have been "saved" who have truly meet the conditions, i.e. "Repented" (turned from sin), "denied themselves, picked up their cross daily and followed Him", "presented their body a living sacrifice", "resisted sin even to the shedding of their blood", "walked worthy" and "overcame", that they not, was Paul as concerned, "be disqualified." If the Apostle Paul knew that his salvation didn't guarantee him the promises of God, then how can we possibly think we have a greater assurance than the Apostles? (see 1Cor 10:1-12, Jude 1:5, Matt 4:17, Luke 13:1-5, Luke 9:23, Rom 12:1, Heb 12:4, Matt 10:37-38, Eph 4:1, Phil 1:27, Col 1:10, 1Thess 2:12, 2Thess 1:5, 2Thess 1:11, Rev 2:1-29, Rev 3:1-22, 1Cor 9:24-27 in particular from the whole of Scripture.)

Again, this Truth is for God's Elect; those who will come forth in the Day as the "co-heirs" of Christ, His counterpart, the "wife of the Lamb." These will be the ones who will "sit with Christ Jesus on His Throne" and bring redemption to the bulk of mankind at the Second Resurrection, who even now are "groaning for the revealing of the sons of God." (see Rom 8:17, 1John 3:1-3, Rev 19:7, Rev 22:17, Matt 25:31-46, Rev 3:21, Rom 8:19, and Ob 1:21)

This is the Good News for which creation is waiting! Hallelujah! I want to be a part of bringing God's great plan & purpose for Creation to fruition.

I got to tell you, friend... although you & some others disagree with most of what I teach from God's Word, I do appreciate the interaction! For truly, as I dig into the Scripture seeking the Truth of God that I might respond to rebuttals, every time my understanding is increased, what I believe and preach is further confirmed, and my hope & trust in the Lord Jesus is strengthened! Praise His Name!!

Peace & Blessings to all who "hunger & thirst for righteousness."

:ange06:

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